2018 mock draft thread

[Sharkinva]

technically i guess you could however i think ebb would think i am cheating

SO lets be fair... most of these guys were normal Busts

JG would have to be considered a Dolly Parton size.

 

[Stymietee]

I don't understand why this conversation is continuing without mentioning the non-exclusive tag if there is no LTD.

Shit just doesn't make sense even for Bruce and Dan. With it Kirk gets to negotiate with any team and if he so chooses can sign with them. Bruce/Dan has the option of either matching that offer or letting him walk with the caveat that in doing so they are compensated with two 1st round draft picks.

BTW: That BS story about wide receivers being unhappy with Kirk, has a tell in it. Dan Patrick gave it away when he repeatedly mispronounced Kirk's name, thus revealing his source. Bruce Allen!!

 

[Sharkinva]

I don't understand why this conversation is continuing without mentioning the non-exclusive tag if there is no LTD.

Shit just doesn't make sense even for Bruce and Dan. With it Kirk gets to negotiate with any team and if he so chooses can sign with them. Bruce/Dan has the option of either matching that offer or letting him walk with the caveat that in doing so they are compensated with two 1st round draft picks.

BTW: That BS story about wide receivers being unhappy with Kirk, has a tell in it. Dan Patrick gave it away when he repeatedly mispronounced Kirk's name, thus revealing his source. Bruce Allen!!

The reason why they dont give Kirk the non exclusive tag is simple. What do they do if Kirk simply signs it and does not talk to other teams.

Worse what if he signs it, doesnt talk to other teams AND doesnt want to talk to the Redskins about a long term deal??

 

[Sportster 72]

I don't understand why this conversation is continuing without mentioning the non-exclusive tag if there is no LTD.

Shit just doesn't make sense even for Bruce and Dan. With it Kirk gets to negotiate with any team and if he so chooses can sign with them. Bruce/Dan has the option of either matching that offer or letting him walk with the caveat that in doing so they are compensated with two 1st round draft picks.

BTW: That BS story about wide receivers being unhappy with Kirk, has a tell in it. Dan Patrick gave it away when he repeatedly mispronounced Kirk's name, thus revealing his source. Bruce Allen!!

Pretty much agree with the non-exclusive tag if they do not sign him long term. My preference is:

1. LTD
2. non-exclusive tag
3. exclusive tag

If they can't come to a deal then clearly they have no intention to unless Cousin's gives them a big hometown discount. If you do not plan to sign him long term why not find out who might sign him and take what you can get.

 

[skinsdad62]

no one and i repeat no one is giving us 2 1st round picks for KC , no one

the skins better come strong with the offer or go home

 

[Sharkinva]

Pretty much agree with the non-exclusive tag if they do not sign him long term. My preference is:

1. LTD
2. non-exclusive tag
3. exclusive tag

If they can't come to a deal then clearly they have no intention to unless Cousin's gives them a big hometown discount. If you do not plan to sign him long term why not find out who might sign him and take what you can get.

Because as I have stated. If they offer the non exclusive tag Kirk will simply sign it and be done with us in 2019.

 

[Stymietee]

The reason why they dont give Kirk the non exclusive tag is simple. What do they do if Kirk simply signs it and does not talk to other teams.

Worse what if he signs it, doesnt talk to other teams AND doesnt want to talk to the Redskins about a long term deal??

I believe that the Non-exclusive tag allows him (Kirk) to negotiate with any other team and if he comes to terms with another team and signs, then Bruce /Dan will have the option to do either one of two things:

1. Agree to the terms that Kirk and his people have with the new team and retain him on those terms.

2. Allow him to leave, getting two 1st round draft picks for him.

BTW: if Kirk and his people refuse to negotiate with another team, there is a formula already worked out that will determine his salary for the 2018 season. Then we begin again in 2019 with tag amounts near or exceeding 38M.

 

[Stymietee]

no one and i repeat no one is giving us 2 1st round picks for KC , no one

Bbbb but, but, but, he's the best that we've had in 20 years.........at minimum a top 10 QB in the league,...... Elite or damned near that....so let me ask, if he's all that, why not?

 

[ehb5]

Josh Norman meet Adam Thielen.

DJ Swearinger misses tackle on 58 yard TD to Nelson Aguilar week 1.
DJ Swearinger gets roasted for 64 yard TD to Mack Hollins week 7.
DJ Swearinger makes zero effort in missed tackle on Alvin Kamara against Saints.

Those are just a few highlights of piss poor play.

Oh no. A really good receiver beat Norman one game. Anybody who thinks Norman hasn't been great this year hasn't been watching redskins games.

Same deal for swearinger. Why are we expecting him to be perfect? Of course he's had bad plays. He's also been a very solid player for us.

 

[ehb5]

ok lets look at our last FA hall

pryor bust
quick bust
mcclain bust
mcgee not as advertised and over paid
DJ hit
brown hit

4 out of six didnt play up to expectations . less then 20% hit rate

since 2015
reyes bust
bruton bust
garvin bust
davis hit
toler bust
norman overpaid /hit
foster hit
ihenacho bust
blackmon hit
way hit
JR bust
hopkins bust
lavou bust
biggers bust
merriweather bust
paea bust
RJF bust
knighton bust
jax hit
garcon hit
goldson bust
jeron johnson bust
stieger bust
hatcher bust

so out of 29 free agents we hit on 8 one being a punter and one overpaid (norman ) or by my math less then 30 % actually 27% and some change .

i said between 10-30 % so there you have it

No offense but...that's a terrible way to determine the success rate of FAs.

You can't look at one bad team over a couple years and include every dumpster diving shot in the dark we took and expect the rate to be an accurate indication of anything.

 

[Sharkinva]

Bbbb but, but, but, he's the best that we've had in 20 years.........at minimum a top 10 QB in the league,...... Elite or damned near that....so let me ask, if he's all that, why not?

Because you dont give up two first rounders for a guy that will be a free agent the following year.

Just because the redskins fucked themselves in this venture, does not mean another team is going to bail them out.

Kirk will either play on the tag, or walk and all we will get is a 3rd rounder in 2019.

Or let me put it another way, no one is going to pay the Redskins to pick up the QB they were to stupid to lock up long term.

 

[gkekoa]

Oh no. A really good receiver beat Norman one game. Anybody who thinks Norman hasn't been great this year hasn't been watching redskins games.

Same deal for swearinger. Why are we expecting him to be perfect? Of course he's had bad plays. He's also been a very solid player for us.

Josh Norman on the season...has been average, receiving a 78% from PFF, and is the 49th ranked corner. Josh Norman | Washington Redskins LCB | NFL and PFF stats | Pro Football Focus

Brashaud Breeland on the season...has been average receiving a 75.8 from PFF, and is ranked 56. Bashaud Breeland | Washington Redskins RCB | NFL and PFF stats | Pro Football Focus

DJ Swearinger on the season...has been average receiving a 78 from PFF, and is ranked 36. D.J. Swearinger | Washington Redskins FS | NFL and PFF stats | Pro Football Focus


Kendall Fuller on the other hand received an 88 and is ranked #9. Kendall Fuller | Washington Redskins RCB | NFL and PFF stats | Pro Football Focus

 

[skinsdad62]

No offense but...that's a terrible way to determine the success rate of FAs.

You can't look at one bad team over a couple years and include every dumpster diving shot in the dark we took and expect the rate to be an accurate indication of anything.

every one of those guys were "name " type signings at the time who were expected to contribute heavily to the team .

i am sorry if the list of redskins free agents since 2013 doesnt add up to your liking but that is our most recent history with our current VP Allen and it backs up the statement i said . whether other teams did it better is of no consequence . what out team did , and its hit rate is all that matters

add to it those were the guys available for the price we could afford which you have to take into account so i am not buying shot in the dark . that was what was on the market

 

[gkekoa]

ok lets look at our last FA hall

pryor bust
quick bust
mcclain bust
mcgee not as advertised and over paid
DJ hit
brown hit

4 out of six didnt play up to expectations . less then 20% hit rate

since 2015
reyes bust
bruton bust
garvin bust
davis hit
toler bust
norman overpaid /hit
foster hit
ihenacho bust
blackmon hit
way hit
JR bust
hopkins bust
lavou bust
biggers bust
merriweather bust
paea bust
RJF bust
knighton bust
jax hit
garcon hit
goldson bust
jeron johnson bust
stieger bust
hatcher bust

so out of 29 free agents we hit on 8 one being a punter and one overpaid (norman ) or by my math less then 30 % actually 27% and some change .

i said between 10-30 % so there you have it

Stacey McGee hasn’t been as bad as you claim. He has been average according to PFF.

McClain has been poor.

Ironman has been just ahead of McGee.

Ziggy was the worst.

Lanier has been poor.

Allen was listed as above average.

 

[Stymietee]

Because you dont give up two first rounders for a guy that will be a free agent the following year.

Just because the redskins fucked themselves in this venture, does not mean another team is going to bail them out.

Kirk will either play on the tag, or walk and all we will get is a 3rd rounder in 2019.

Or let me put it another way, no one is going to pay the Redskins to pick up the QB they were to stupid to lock up long term.

He won't be a free agent, the Non exclusive tag is set up so that Kirk and the prospective team reach agreement and he signs that agreement. At that point Dan and Bruce have to decide to either keep him at the agreed upon contract or let him go. If they let him go, then this team is compensated two 1st round picks. SEE:

The "non-exclusive" tag is just that; other teams can negotiate long-term contract offers with the player until July 15. If the player signs one of these offers, his original club can either match that offer, or allow the player to leave for his new club—and be compensated with two first-round draft picks from the new club.

 

[Stymietee]

BTW: After July 15th, Kirk has to stay with his current team (barring trade) under FT rules with this exception. Under normal FT rules he would be paid approximately 28m next year. Under the Non-exclusive tag rules the monetary compensation is approximately 34m.

SN: Damn the compensation for these differing rules are unnecessarily complicated.

 

[Sharkinva]

He won't be a free agent, the Non exclusive tag is set up so that Kirk and the prospective team reach agreement and he signs that agreement.

And just like 2015, Kirk could simply sign the Franchise tag and NOT negotiate with any other teams. He could also choose to NOT negotiate with the Redskins.

IN this case, the Redskins would simply pay him the $34M and watch as he leaves next year as an unrestricted free agent.

NOTHING says he has to sign an offer from another team. He could simply sign the tender. Unles of course you think the Redskins would tag him yet again in 2019 at an Awesome price tag of $40.8M

Side note, I love how you guys are insinuating that if no other team would be willing to give up two first rounders, then we probably shouldnt be trying to resign him. Yea i know I know, no one has come out and said this directly.. but its been implied quite a few times.

 

[skinsdad62]

no one is giving up 2 first rounders to sign KC period , its a foolish proposition

 

[Stymietee]

And just like 2015, Kirk could simply sign the Franchise tag and NOT negotiate with any other teams. He could also choose to NOT negotiate with the Redskins.

IN this case, the Redskins would simply pay him the $34M and watch as he leaves next year as an unrestricted free agent.

NOTHING says he has to sign an offer from another team. He could simply sign the tender. Unles of course you think the Redskins would tag him yet again in 2019 at an Awesome price tag of $40.8M

Side note, I love how you guys are insinuating that if no other team would be willing to give up two first rounders, then we probably shouldnt be trying to resign him. Yea i know I know, no one has come out and said this directly.. but its been implied quite a few times.

Make no mistake, Kirk wants a LTD, and he'll get one, here or elsewhere if they use the non-exclusive tag. That is as certain as anything for him and his representatives. Don't you think that it would be foolish, (something that neither Kirk or his reps have been through all of this) for them to NOT negotiate with anyone? That would be extremely poor move to make from a business sense. To NOT do so guarantees a one time 28m (FT) or 34m (NEFT) instead of likely 3 times that or more in guarantees on a LTD.

The questions around 2019 and that awesome 40.8m tag center around Bruce Allen and I don't put anything past that jackass!!

Interesting that the insinuation is being applied to me....for the record it does NOT!! To be clear my position is, sign him or not, I don't give one iota how much that cost will be, or if they let him go. This team moves on with or without him. Whatever the move, it really doesn't change shit with me, even though some shout to the heavens how much of a set-back that will be. For as much as I want this team to win, it appears that the glimmer of hope coming from the last couple of seasons has caused some form of amnesia to a portion of the masses, who, unlike myself, can never, ever, again, be fooled by the countless number of fuck-ups that have marked this Dan Snyder led organization.

 

[Stymietee]

no one is giving up 2 first rounders to sign KC period , its a foolish proposition

It's an NFL/ NFLPA agreement and this won't happen as you state ONLY if there is NO NEFT applied. If that tag is applied, there will definitely be suitors for Kirk Cousins services. Those suitors will be well aware of the price to get him.

Now if you're saying that he will either get a LTD or FT'ed again, then I agree.