Defense 2016 Right Now

[deanpet21]

But RT's have to deal with edge rushers. I disagree on how you think the line paned out. There was proof out there that Scherff failed at RT. Moses was a surprise to everyone. Nobody on the coaching staff thought he would of turned out to be the player he is today. They weren't going to bench the #5 pick, yes I agree with you on that. That is why Scherff is now our RG.

 

[skinsdad62]

my my my dean yee of so short a memory

shark and i said we would pick scherf and in fact argued that drafting a OG in the top 5 was ok

i could see he was a better fit at OG and i had the go through the damn pundit argument wher my opinion wasnt as good as the "expert " BS i am going through now in another thread

i could give a shit if moses starts at RT i could give a crap if scherf is a OG and how he got there

what is important ios he had a better rookie season then williams and you can talk till the cows come home but baker had 6 sacks with no where near the talent around him that williams had

sure we need help on the d/line but this d/line class is deeper then last seasons so perhaps a calculated gamble took place

i will tell you williams 3 sacks on our defense means little and no where near scherf's effect on our o/line

 

[Sharkinva]

But RT's have to deal with edge rushers. I disagree on how you think the line paned out. There was proof out there that Scherff failed at RT. Moses was a surprise to everyone. Nobody on the coaching staff thought he would of turned out to be the player he is today. They weren't going to bench the #5 pick, yes I agree with you on that. That is why Scherff is now our RG.

Guards have to deal with A Gap blitzes, the likes of Suh, Knighton, Raji and a host of other dominant interior players every down. So whats your point?? And fact of the matter is, if a guard sucks, you generally have to have a Tackle help out and THUS also need to have a blocking TE help out on the line. Look I know you had a jones for Moses to the point where you actually would have picked him over Kelvin Benjamin. You thought he was a 1st round talent. Yes I agree with you, every one was SURPRISED Moses had actually developed into some one who COULD possibly start on the line.


Flip side is, no one ever doubted Scherff's ability to start. It wasnt EVER a question of IF he was a starter in this league, just where.

In the end we put the best five on the field to start the season. But had Long stepped up and been a starter for any reason other than injury, Moses would have been a pine warrior.

 

[j_y19]

This fallacy that Moses "beat" Scherff out with the first 2 weeks of training camp for the RT position is crazy. Sure, Moses may have looked good early on, but Moses had been through training camp before and was already familiar with the offense and comfortable as a RT. Fine, Schreff struggled a bit those first 2 weeks, but he was a rookie in his first NFL training camp, learning a new position and a new offense. Give me a break, dean. That doesn't mean that Schreff's level of comfortable and proficiency wouldn't increase as he gained familiarity. To say that Moses beat him out is just wrong.

No, what facilitated Schreff's move to RG was because Long was still struggling at the position. The fact that Moses had also improved helped. The decision was made that the entire unit would be stronger with one of the 2 RTs moving to RG. Schreff was the only real option because there is no way Moses could make that move, he didn't have the athleticism.

 

[gkekoa]

Guards have to deal with A Gap blitzes, the likes of Suh, Knighton, Raji and a host of other dominant interior players every down. So whats your point?? And fact of the matter is, if a guard sucks, you generally have to have a Tackle help out and THUS also need to have a blocking TE help out on the line. Look I know you had a jones for Moses to the point where you actually would have picked him over Kelvin Benjamin. You thought he was a 1st round talent. Yes I agree with you, every one was SURPRISED Moses had actually developed into some one who COULD possibly start on the line.


Flip side is, no one ever doubted Scherff's ability to start. It wasnt EVER a question of IF he was a starter in this league, just where.

In the end we put the best five on the field to start the season. But had Long stepped up and been a starter for any reason other than injury, Moses would have been a pine warrior.

Hold on now. We can't make comments like this either. I was not surprised Moses developed and I am sure many others were not either. This is what you do with your players if you are a winning team...you develop the talent.

Yeah...can't argue with paragraph two...only one person will on that.

Paragraph three is also correct. Can't believe you left out Watt for who guards have to go against.

 

[Sharkinva]

Hold on now. We can't make comments like this either. I was not surprised Moses developed and I am sure many others were not either. This is what you do with your players if you are a winning team...you develop the talent.

Yeah...can't argue with paragraph two...only one person will on that.

Paragraph three is also correct. Can't believe you left out Watt for who guards have to go against.

OK time for us to leave this dead horse alone. But I left out quite a few that Guards have to go against regularly. And i say Moses was a surprise because most people thought he would be a backup that would take at least another season before he was able to start.

 

[gkekoa]

OK time for us to leave this dead horse alone. But I left out quite a few that Guards have to go against regularly. And i say Moses was a surprise because most people thought he would be a backup that would take at least another season before he was able to start.

Gotcha...just don't want to seem like we are ganging tooooooo much on anybody.

 

[deanpet21]

It not crazy b/c if Sherff dominated at RT in training camp he wouldn't have been moved to RG. You can make the argument that Flowers was the better OT prospect in the draft. I thought the better athletes play OT b/c they have to deal with fast pass rushers. The stronger slower guys play OG. Especially in the power running game. The knock on Scherff in the draft was his foot speed. His strength and great workout ability was his upside. I got all my information on this topic from Tandler, rotoworld.com and ESPN. I did not just make this stuff up. lol

 

[Sharkinva]

Gotcha...just don't want to seem like we are ganging tooooooo much on anybody.

NO worries, I think we all have that one idea or player that every one else tends to disagree on. And we tend to take the heat for bringing it up.

 

[Sharkinva]

It not crazy b/c if Sherff dominated at RT in training camp he wouldn't have been moved to RG. You can make the argument that Flowers was the better OT prospect in the draft. I thought the better athletes play OT b/c they have to deal with fast pass rushers. The stronger slower guys play OG. Especially in the power running game. The knock on Scherff in the draft was his foot speed. His strength and great workout ability was his upside. I got all my information on this topic from Tandler, rotoworld.com and ESPN. I did not just make this stuff up. lol

You also look at all this stuff with a predisposed bias towards Moses whom you were in lust with from the moment his name was mentioned. You also discount the fact that in our system, the Guard is required to do pull and stunt blocks which discounts your slow footwork theory.And if the team decided three weeks into the preseason, and after two games that Scherff was being "DOMINATED" as you put it, well then it shows a short sightedness on their part as well. I know you dont buy it, because it doesnt play into your Moses is awesome theory, but the reality is that it was LONG who didnt live up to what was expected. Moses has NEVER even been considered to be moved to Guard. We put the more talented player into the position that best fit the team need. And that was Scherff moving to RG, because the other option was playing a less talented Long at RG, or a Moses who wasnt even considered for it.

 

[deanpet21]

Scherff is a guard. He is not a tackle. Scherff best fit is at guard. Long has nothing to do with it. Moses was the better RT and Scherff was the better RG. Its probably going to stay that way for the next four years.

So you guys are saying Moses was put at Rt by default b/c Long was so bad at guard? I totally disagree with that. The #5th overall pick was going to play no matter what. He couldn't block pass rushers in camp. Our pass rushers mind you so he got moved to guard.

 

[skinsdad62]

dean you are just acting foolish . scherf wasnt dominated at RT long wasnt getting the job done

what is lost in all this is moses looks to be a very solid RT for years to come and he arrived a year earlier then i thought

but this scherf was dominated stuff comes from your 2 man crushes , moses and williams . williams because you are looking to justify williams being better , which at this point he isnt , and the other is trying to say moses was a 1st round talent , he wasnt

 

[j_y19]

Dean, this is what you do every time. You fall in love with a player and then look to exaggerate every piece of information to support your love. You can't take the initial reports of TRAINING CAMP and extrapolate those opinions for the entire preseason, season, or career. That's what you are doing with Moses and Schreff. I concede that Moses may have been further along that Schreff for those first few weeks, but that doesn't mean he beat him out or that Schreff wouldn't have turned it up as he got more comfortable. In fact, I'd wager that if Long had improved as much as Moses did in the offseason, we would have been looking at a starting right side of Long and Schreff. Moses would have been a backup. Schreff would have started opening day at RT.

 

[deanpet21]

No man crushes. I just want to know how it all went down in training camp. Ok maybe dominated is a strong word but he wasn't doing well at RT in training camp. jy19 wasn't the whole reason why Scherff got moved to guard was b/c he couldn't handle our pass rushers in camp? I thought Moses was the best pass protector that is why he started.

Lets say Long has a strong camp this year and Lavou is the starting LG. By your theory Scherff would be our starting Rt and bump Moses to the bench?

 

[kbso83432]

As I recall it Scherff was struggling, but Long was struggling even more. In addition, Moses appeared to be one of the most improved in camp, so it just made sense to move Brandon to guard. It wasn't about getting Brandon outta there, it was more about getting Moses, a 3rd round draft pick on the field.

 

[Sharkinva]

No man crushes. I just want to know how it all went down in training camp. Ok maybe dominated is a strong word but he wasn't doing well at RT in training camp. jy19 wasn't the whole reason why Scherff got moved to guard was b/c he couldn't handle our pass rushers in camp? I thought Moses was the best pass protector that is why he started.

Lets say Long has a strong camp this year and Lavou is the starting LG. By your theory Scherff would be our starting Rt and bump Moses to the bench?

Exactly.... This was the plan. Long failed to show out. The decision was made to try Scherff at RG and see if Moses could handle RT because he WAS outperforming Long from day one. Had Lavou not gotten injured, odds are Long doesnt see the field very much. Moses is the swing Tackle. Because by all accounts, he was competing with Compton for the backup tackle role when this all started.

 

[gkekoa]

No man crushes. I just want to know how it all went down in training camp. Ok maybe dominated is a strong word but he wasn't doing well at RT in training camp. jy19 wasn't the whole reason why Scherff got moved to guard was b/c he couldn't handle our pass rushers in camp? I thought Moses was the best pass protector that is why he started.

Lets say Long has a strong camp this year and Lavou is the starting LG. By your theory Scherff would be our starting Rt and bump Moses to the bench?

This is exactly right...the last paragraph. Scherff would have been starting at RT if Long was a better G. This is what we have all been telling you.

 

[deanpet21]

Totally disagree gk. IN the situation from my last paragraph, you are saying the Skins still would of started Scherff at RT even knowing that he was struggling to block pass rushers. Total bullshit if you ask me. Even if Long did have a good camp, they knew they couldn't bench Moses b/c he was having a strong camp so they couldn't bench the 5th overall pick so Long became the fall guy in this situation.

It didn't matter how Scherff feared in camp they weren't going to bench the 5th overall pick. They tried Scherff at RT, he was getting beat so they moved him to RG. Fine with me that Scherff is a guard. I have no issues with that. The issue I have is that you guys think Sherff is a better RT than Moses right now and I call major bullshit. Just my opinion.

 

[Sharkinva]

Totally disagree gk. IN the situation from my last paragraph, you are saying the Skins still would of started Scherff at RT even knowing that he was struggling to block pass rushers. Total bullshit if you ask me. Even if Long did have a good camp, they knew they couldn't bench Moses b/c he was having a strong camp so they couldn't bench the 5th overall pick so Long became the fall guy in this situation.

It didn't matter how Scherff feared in camp they weren't going to bench the 5th overall pick. They tried Scherff at RT, he was getting beat so they moved him to RG. Fine with me that Scherff is a guard. I have no issues with that. The issue I have is that you guys think Sherff is a better RT than Moses right now and I call major bullshit. Just my opinion.

OK lets look at this another way. Name me 5 RT's that have NOT struggled to block Kerrigan without holding or without help from a TE or RB?? If your total justification here is that a rookie 3 weeks into camp was struggling to keep up with a 5 year vet and the best pass rusher on our team and thus should have been benched if not for the fact that he was the 5th over all pick..... PLEASE SHARE THE SHIT YOU ARE SMOKING!!!

NO one is saying Moses sucks as a RT. But we are saying, if Long has shown up as a Guard, then Scherff would have been the starting RT. Because as you have been so nice as to point out, you DONT bench a top five pick. You let him take his lumps and coach him period. Scherff was moved because it was best for the line as a whole since he does have the talent to play both OT and OG.

 

[j_y19]

OK lets look at this another way. Name me 5 RT's that have NOT struggled to block Kerrigan without holding or without help from a TE or RB?? If your total justification here is that a rookie 3 weeks into camp was struggling to keep up with a 5 year vet and the best pass rusher on our team and thus should have been benched if not for the fact that he was the 5th over all pick..... PLEASE SHARE THE SHIT YOU ARE SMOKING!!!

NO one is saying Moses sucks as a RT. But we are saying, if Long has shown up as a Guard, then Scherff would have been the starting RT. Because as you have been so nice as to point out, you DONT bench a top five pick. You let him take his lumps and coach him period. Scherff was moved because it was best for the line as a whole since he does have the talent to play both OT and OG.

We have a winner!