Saad as 2nd Line Center?

[JBM73]

Changes at center could be in Hawks' future - Chicago Blackhawks Blog - ESPN Chicago

 

[ChicagoIrish]

I actually like Saad playing the top line with Toews.

Let's hope they don't try Pat Kane at center again.

 

[gmalis1]

I'm looking at Brandon Saad on the third line. Projecting Saad-Shaw-Ben Smith to be the grinder/agitator/defensive shutdown group. After Saad disappeared in the playoffs, I don't see him on the top line.

I also don't see him as the second line center, despite Q's comments. Brandon Pirri has the job for him to lose in my opinion. The guy lead the AHL in scoring last season. If he can be responsible defensively and win faceoffs, he's in.

 

[ChicagoIrish]

Pirri centering who? Kane and Sharp?

I don't really see Pirri being a top 6 forward and Saad not being one.

 

[gmalis1]

Line 1: Bickell-Toews-Hossa
Line 2: Sharp-Pirri-Kane
Line 3: Saad-Shaw-Smith
Line 4: Mix and match between Handzus/Kruger/Bollig/Hayes/Morin

But...as I've said on other posts...this team has so much flexibility and interchangeable pieces that Q can mix and match as he sees fit. I wouldn't be suprised to see Kane play on the first line with Bickell and Toews. I wouldn't be surprised to see Saad play second line center, first line wing, fourth line anywhere. Handzus could play second line center, fourth line center, or not play at all. Kruger could play second line center, third line center, fourth line center, wing anywhere. Shaw could play second, third or fourth line center. Sharp can play first or second line wing. Same for Hossa.

I'm not all-consumed with how the lines work out. Really I'm not. I like the Hawks top three lines just fine no matter how they shuffle the nine players in those spots. Pretty confident that no matter how it shakes out, the Hawks offensive 12 are going to be so much better than any other team's 12 it won't really matter.

 

[Baseballnut77]

handzus will be the 3rd line center when he is not on the second line. he is too good of a faceoff guy to have anywhere else. honestly i would love to see a 4th line of krueger hayes and kyle beach as then you would be able to throw those 2 wingers up on other lines for "change-ups from time to time. Both big and both could assume the role that dustin had in 2010 and bickell last year

 

[gmalis1]

Handzus won't be the third line center. He will either be the second line center on occasion, or he will be the fourth line center, also on occasion. He is supposed to be "too good of a faceoff guy", yet with the Hawks in the playoffs he was around 42%. Not too good. Actually, not that good at all.

If you're so set on Handzus on the third line center, where does that leave Andrew Shaw? Shaw might move up to second line center, but don't bet on it. His faceoff win percentage is worse than Handzus.

Kyle Beach doesn't get a chance with the Hawks. They have pretty much given up on him. Plays stupid. Takes stupid penalties. Not a good enough skater. Forget about Beach. Hawks hoping he has a good year at Rockford so they can trade him for more draft picks.

Jimmy Hayes...the jury is out on him. Hawks like his size. Shoots okay. I personally didn't see much in him for the short time he was with the Hawks last year and the year before.

Why do you think that the Hawks need Beach and/or Hayes to assume the role that Byfuglien had in 2010 or that Bickell had last season in the playoffs? First off, Bickell isn't going anywhere. So he assumes the same role he had last year. For the big bucks he got in the offseason ($4 million per year) Bicks is playing on the first line with Toews and Hossa. Hawks aren't paying Bicks first line money to play on the third line.

Second, any fourth liner doesn't assume Byfuglien or Bickell's role. The fourth line is set to eat up some minutes, play great defensively and generally be a pain in the rear to other teams. No one is looking for them to score a lot. Whatever offense the Hawks get from their fourth line is just gravy.

I'm sticking to Saad-Shaw-Ben Smith for the third line, and then a mixture of Kruger-Handzus-Hayes-Bollig-Morin for the fourth line. Two will be healthy scratches while three play. At least until Q gets things sorted out to his liking.

Not to shoot you down Baseballnut, but I think your logic is way off base and there is no way it happens.

 

[Baseballnut77]

well before 2010 who was dustin byfuglien? played stupid not a great skater and then what? The hawks need some beef and bickell is not going to be some 40 goal scorer. he will be what he was last year, a streaky kind of guy. This isnt a 40 game season this year and you need to be able to roll out 4 lines on a regular basis If i have a choice of rolling out beach or bollig i am going with beach everyday and twice on sunday. he has some actual skill besides just taking off the gloves as he is only a couple years removed from scoring something like 52 goals. Shaw is just a pest albeit a talented one and ben smith is a one year wonder in my opinion. i would have mornin up before him.Any way you look at it over the course of 82 games they should all end up with chances due to injuries

 

[JBM73]

Any way you look at it over the course of 82 games they should all end up with chances due to injuries

I think we can all agree on this. Camp will sort out who sticks initially, but it's a long season.

 

[anotheridiot]

Saad disappeared in the playoffs because he was taken off the top line with Toews. He played the entire regular season with Taser, then the change for the playoffs seemed to catch him off guard.

He made spectacular plays taking hits during the playoffs. His grit taking the hit that eventually ended up costing the Hammer goal was huge. I still dont know how he got the penalty for sitting on the visitors bench, then his back on the ice.

No, Manchild needs to stay on the top line with Toews. They will save Bickell for the playoffs, just like they did with big buff.

I think they will keep Zeus on second line unless Pirri or Smith can take over. Sharpie and Kane can also center that second line. I though Kane was good as a center, if he centers the line with Bickell he wont have to get deep anyhow.

Our biggest deal will still be who scores on the power play.

I am pretty sure Q is gonna juggle the lines alot, there are so many complete players and its gonna be important to get everyone on the same page and playing on different lines when its time to make things happen.

 

[gmalis1]

Sorry to disagree, anotheridiot.

There is no way in hell Patrick Kane returns to center unless there are a couple or three injured centermen for the Hawks. Patrick Sharp returns to center before Kaner does. That was just a semi-failed experiment.

I liked Saad on the top line. Really, I did. But the Hawks aren't gonna pay Bickell $4 million to be a third line guy. It's just not gonna happen. Now, will Bickell play SOME third line? Sure. Q will use matchups more than ever this season. And we all know that when Bickell starts to dog it, Q will move him down. But for the most part, Bickell's playing the Beef role with Toews and most likely Hossa. All bets are off for the playoffs however.

Saad or Pirri will center the second, with Sharp and Kane. I'm still have my money on Pirri.

As to Kyle Beach making the Hawks team, I'm telling you there is NO chance that happens. None...zilch. I don't know what kind of a man crush baseballnut has with Beach, but there is ZERO chance Beach makes the Hawks team breaking camp. That's not to say he doesn't get a peek-a-boo look for a few games...and probably right before the Hawks trade him for another draft pick and a bag of pucks.

I don't think the Hawks are looking for tough guys any more. I really don't. They had the whole Dustin Byfuglien thing (even before he became Superman in the 2010 playoffs), then the Jonathan Scott failure (great fighter, one of the most god-awful hockey players ever), then Brandon Bollig (who couldn't score a goal if the net was as big as the Grand Canyon). I'm pretty sure Q and his staff are looking for skill players. Skaters and shooters. Sure, an occasional forecheck here and there is nice, but after the Hawks performance in last season's playoffs where EVERYONE (including myself) thought the way to beat the Hawks was to be physical and that didn't work, I'm thinking you don't have to win to be a bunch of goons game in and game out.

Anyhoo...can't wait for camp to start. Real games start October 1. And this Monday single game tickets go on sale. WooHoo!

 

[JBM73]

I don't think the Hawks are looking for tough guys any more. I really don't. They had the whole Dustin Byfuglien thing (even before he became Superman in the 2010 playoffs), then the Jonathan Scott failure (great fighter, one of the most god-awful hockey players ever), then Brandon Bollig (who couldn't score a goal if the net was as big as the Grand Canyon). I'm pretty sure Q and his staff are looking for skill players. Skaters and shooters. Sure, an occasional forecheck here and there is nice, but after the Hawks performance in last season's playoffs where EVERYONE (including myself) thought the way to beat the Hawks was to be physical and that didn't work, I'm thinking you don't have to win to be a bunch of goons game in and game out.
!

True, Bollig can't score, but unlike most tough guys he's not a major liability defensively. In fact, he's not bad at all in that area, which is why I expect him to stick around beyond the coming season, playing 40-50 games in the regular season and a handful in the playoffs depending on match-ups.

I agree though that the Hawks are probably done with one-dimensional goons.

 

[ChicagoIrish]

I like having goons on a team, but this Hawks team just doesn't have the room for them. Such a skilled team up and down the lines, defensively as well, so much so that the goons really drag down the lines they're on.

Anyone remember the turnover Bollig made in the Finals vs Boston? No way do I want that guy playing 50 games.

Like I said, I like a goon or two, but not on this team.

And I must laugh at the thought of Kane playing center, no way, no how. Why ruin his offensive skill set by giving him all that responsibility of playing center?

 

[JBM73]

I like having goons on a team, but this Hawks team just doesn't have the room for them. Such a skilled team up and down the lines, defensively as well, so much so that the goons really drag down the lines they're on.

Anyone remember the turnover Bollig made in the Finals vs Boston? No way do I want that guy playing 50 games.

Like I said, I like a goon or two, but not on this team.

And I must laugh at the thought of Kane playing center, no way, no how. Why ruin his offensive skill set by giving him all that responsibility of playing center?

'sup Irish!! Tough guys still have a place in the game. There's a reason the Hawks signed Scott in the first place - they were tired of teams taking liberties in the regular season. I agree that guys like Bollig should spend most of the PLAYOFFS on the bench, though.

 

[gmalis1]

I agree that Brandon Bollig is usually pretty solid defensively...although the game in the playoffs which he played instead of Stalberg he was brutal.

I don't like one dimensional players. To me, although Bollig can play pretty steady defensively, he is an offensive liability...and a big one. ZERO goals ever in the NHL is more than awful...especially playing with a Hawks team as talented as they are on all four lines. And Q won't put up with that total lack of offensive production.

Sure, Q will play him here and there. Watch for him to be on the ice against teams like the Blues and Wild where their philosophy is to run the Hawks right off the ice. He will be the "great equalizer" (although Bollig isn't too good at fighting) for a few games, but that's about it.

Look for the Hawks to increase the speed of their game across the board...like all four lines. Hawks did major damage ALL last season, including the playoffs, with their third and fourth lines, which are way superior to any other team's third and fourth lines. When your bottom two lines dominate...and your top two lines are also equal or better, it's pretty hard to lose many games.

If the Hawks wanted to "goon it up", they would have kept Carcillo instead of trading him. That in itself told me the Hawks wanted to go in a different direction. Heck, Carcillo has way more skill than Bollig ever will...and they let CarBomb go. No loss there, it's just the Hawks didn't want/need that type of player any more.

As the criteria in the NHL gets stricter and stricter for illegal hits...meaning that the refs will call strict penalties more and more on hard hits and even more tacky questionable hits, and suspensions mount for players, the game will be closer to a no-check league than hockey as we knew it. And I'm okay with that. I'm sure some of you aren't. They like to see wicked hits, guys get concussed or injured, and fights a plenty. I don't. I like to see hockey. Sure, I like to see aggressive forechecking knocking guys off the puck and creating turnovers, as long as they are legal plays without intent to injure.

So, basically, the Hawks are showing the NHL how to be successful without being a dirty hard hitting team. I like that. I like the direction of this team. I love it's success. I like it's youth. I like it's development of players. To me, it's all good. Even if, heaven forbid, the Hawks don't win the Cup again next year.

 

[ChicagoIrish]

I agree, I like the tough guys, and they're always good to have.

It's just with this team, they never seem to work, and never seem to do their job. Seems like teams take liberties on our Hawks no matter what.

 

[ChicagoIrish]

Also, JBM keep posting my friend.

You're keeping this board alive.

 

[gmalis1]

I agree, I like the tough guys, and they're always good to have.

It's just with this team, they never seem to work, and never seem to do their job. Seems like teams take liberties on our Hawks no matter what.

Listen, like all Hawks fans I felt that the opposing teams where giving the Hawks the business in all four playoff rounds. But, that's kind of a homerism view. I'm sure every teams fans in the playoffs felt that about their own team...that the refs were screwing them with non-calls.

Heck, after Game 1 against the Wild, I turned to my wife and said that if the Wild continued to play like a bunch of pussy cats and not hit the Hawks, the series would be over before they realized it. So, what happens? They come out in Game 2, play as physical as they can...and still lose. That really frustrates teams. Nothing better than getting the snot beat out of you and coming back for more...and coming out on top...to demoralize a team.

So, the Wings come in and they try to be something they usually aren't...physical. Works for a while, but the Hawks figure it out, wear out the Wings and go on to win.

The Kings...oh those big bad Kings, with dopey Darryl Sutter as the coach. He wants to muck it up at every opportunity. But he forgot that during the mucking it up part, you still have to play some offense. Bye bye Kings.

And the Bruins...ah the Bruins. A really good team, but they also fall to that trap of trying to beat up the Hawks instead of just beating them. Once again, they seemed to be on top for a while. But then the Hawks decided to go AT their strongest line (Zdeno Chara) instead of away from him. And what happened there? Chara looked awful the last three games. And I mean really awful. Toews made him look sick with that between his legs pass to Bickell for the game tying goal in Game 6. That was just plain sick!

Now, some idiot low life team (AKA Colorado) who have no skills whatsoever and can't match up against the Hawks speed and finesse...they will go head hunting, and do so against the Hawks top players WITH INTENT TO INJURE. But the NHL, the new NHL, won't put up with that anymore. They have to protect their marquis players in order to protect their brand and grow the game. Watch for even more severe penalties (suspensions, and long ones) for players that concuss other players with illegal hits to the head. It's gonna happen. The league is under a microscope in terms of this concussion business in sports. It won't be tolerated any more.

 

[ChicagoIrish]

Nice post gmalis, I agree with that 100%.

That feeds into what I was saying, we don't really need a goon/enforcer.

These teams go out of their way just to rough us up, take shots on us. But after awhile, specially in 7 game series such as the playoffs, our speed, athleticism, and pure skill just take over.

 

[Baseballnut77]

Lol now i figured it out gmailis is one that prefers flag football to tackle. Now it all makes sense Lets just take away everything from any game where someone can get hurt.Baseball with 10 foot long bats so the pitcher wont be tempted to throw anywhere near the batter.perhaps basketball Where they play horse to cut out fouling lol.Another one lining up for the pussification of the U.S.A. This is hockey.People get hit,people fight and even on occasion people play dirty. Welcome to the real world where you dont go to work with pampers on and people protecting your every move. It is the way the country was built with hard work aches and pains and even some concussions.Sports were played by real men who understood the risk and sacrificed to grab the glory (and the money).And the guys that couldnt handle it went on to try and make it somewhere else.Why did the bobby hull's gordie howe's and even the wayne gretzky's of the world become the best? Because there were a couple of big uglies around who couldn't skate fast or shoot the puck 100 mph,but what they could do was police the game. Guy takes a cheap shot at your star and a big ugly comes right on over and handles business. Kids get hurt more than ever now because a certain group of people decided that because their kids were not tough enough (and in some cases even good enough to play) wasn't a fair thing so they went to anyone that would listen and started changing how games were played and are doing their best to take anything that might get their little princess kids hurt out of the games.Toughness and survival as an adult used to be taught when you were a kid. Now because everyone is protected to the hilt as a kid all of the sudden guys are getting hurt at record rates.I mean geez my first year of tackle football i was a 65 lb bean pole and my dad (the coach) decided the best way for me to survive the game was to put me at DT against guys that went all the way up to 200lbs. I got destroyed for the entire year. Next season i was 115 lbs moved to LB and was equipped to finally start dealing some hits instead of taking them for 48 minutes a game.Point is it's guys with your mentality on sports that(whether you know it or not) have a direct negative effect on the game.Regardless of this though if the hawks decided to go at it this season with your mentality of all speed and skill and no toughness they will not win the cup.Oh and btw when you are slamming a guy like beach or even bollig(who i am not a fan of because he has zero skill yet you are still putting him on the team) Try to remember that the odds are that a guy like yourself couldnt hold the jock of even the guys who would never get out of the echl