my honest appraisal of RG3 and questions on what to do

[j_y19]

Leaving RG3 to the side - why in the world would anyone believe that Mallet will be anything more than a journeyman in the NFL? Maybe he will surprise me, but I will be 100% shocked if this guy is anything more than a career backup. If not then I am shocked that he cannot displace a career scrub like Fitzpatrick (who would give Cousins a run in the INT dept).

You may be right. But the fact is we don't know. I could give a shit about Mallett. But mallet is one of a handful I very quickly identified as POTENTIAL QBs that could run gruden's offense. But the larger point is lost. Bringing in competition for RG3 if he doesn't improve is a viable alternative and could serve to focus Robert to become better.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Dude, just because dad writes it doesn't make it fact. I love dad and respect the hell out of him, but that is his opinion. I don't agree with it. Griffin is still consistently making the same errors in reading defenses and in decision making. His int last game is a perfect example. Not only was the throw bad, but the decision was bad. He had a 1st down if he would have just continued sprinting to the sideline when he broke from the pocket. I have seen no improvement in this area from the Philly game opening day 2013 until last Sunday. He still locks onto his first read (when in the pocket), he struggles with identifying blitzes and what to, and he struggles to keep his eyes downfield while moving in the pocket. He is usually back pedaling when he feels pressure.

Dad didn't write the article did he? I was under the impression he was posting stuff he pulled online. Again it doesn't prove a damn thing, but it does indicate some progress regardless of who wrote it.

As I said early in the game he came off his first read and hit his second option over the middle for solid gain, all done from the pocket.. You didn't notice, it may not have been in Dad's thread, but it happened. What is wrong with a sideline pattern on first down in the final minutes? We see that pattern run all the time in that situation. So because it resulted in a pick suddenly it's a dumb idea?

 

[j_y19]

Dad didn't write the article did he? I was under the impression he was posting stuff he pulled online. Again it doesn't prove a damn thing, but it does indicate some progress regardless of who wrote it.

As I said early in the game he came off his first read and hit his second option over the middle for solid gain, all done from the pocket.. You didn't notice, it may not have been in Dad's thread, but it happened. What is wrong with a sideline pattern on first down in the final minutes? We see that pattern run all the time in that situation. So because it resulted in a pick suddenly it's a dumb idea?

I don't care who wrote the article, it's still an opinion.

And yes, it was a dumb idea. The result speaks for itself. He had an easy 1st down which is all we needed at that point.

 

[Sharkinva]

I don't have time to find them all but 5 minutes got me here:





http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=5612208



http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=5591782




http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=5591795

OK I'll give you those. So your real beef when all is said and done is that some of us dont praise Griffin enough and accept the opinion that he is greatness waiting to happen as borderline fact.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

OK I'll give you those. So your real beef when all is said and done is that some of us dont praise Griffin enough and accept the opinion that he is greatness waiting to happen as borderline fact.

Let's make this easy. Let's put the past for RG3 to bed for now (whether his good or bad plays). Let's simply give him the next say 4 games & see how he does & then individually see what each of us would do moving forward. Sound fair?

 

[Sharkinva]

Let's make this easy. Let's put the past for RG3 to bed for now (whether his good or bad plays). Let's simply give him the next say 4 games & see how he does & then individually see what each of us would do moving forward. Sound fair?

Actually very fair. But we also know that reality will likely step into the equation some where.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Actually very fair. But we also know that reality will likely step into the equation some where.

Understand & realize that a lot will be discussed between now & then. However - after say the Rams game on 12/7 we should have pretty clear picture of things. We will see if RG3 progresses, gets hurt , is exactly the same, etc & it will come against good & bad teams just prior to their ending stretch against the NFC-E (which will likely be meaningless).

I am willing to consider various options after that - not sure about anyone else.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

OK I'll give you those. So your real beef when all is said and done is that some of us dont praise Griffin enough and accept the opinion that he is greatness waiting to happen as borderline fact.

You aren't even listening to what I have been saying and that's why I get so frustrated with you. When did I ever say you need to accept that opinion as fact? Hell when did I ever say I felt that opinion was fact? It's like you just make shit up and throw it at the wall, then can't understand why I would respond.

I said very clearly that you never acknowledge any positives with Griffin in the game, even when they are presented to you on a silver platter. A perfect example I gave was how Griffin's presence improves the run game. The numbers don't lie, this is not an opinion. With Griffin in the game Morris has much more success. But all you can say is Griffin makes the OL look worse because he takes too many sacks while totally dismissing how he makes the OL look better in the run game. I pointed it out several times yesterday and you just can't admit it, even when the numbers are very clear.

I have been much more fair in my assessment of Kirk than you have when discussing Griffin. End of story.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

An Outsider Viewpoint

The OP is spot on with a lot of his assessment of RG3.

A few points from afar.

#1...the expectation for RG3 was way too high for a guy that played in a read option OFC, but could throw pretty well.

#2...if he had been groomed to be more of a Pro Style QB from day one, he would not have had the rookie year he had, but by now would be (theoritically) much further along as a pro QB.

#3. bottomline, you have a QB who is most productive in an OFC that is not conducive to winning on a consistent level in the NFL, nor does the QB have the durability to run said OFC at this level.

What do you do?

IMO you have 2 choices, but both include keeping RG3

Scrap the read-option OFC and give RG3 2 years to figure out a pro style OFC and at the end of that stint, he will have been in the league 5 yrs and clearly will be what he is going to be at that point...then you keep him or move on.

Stay with the same type of OFC and hope that he can stay healthy in '15, but you have to be ready to pull the plug and go with the new prospect if he can't stay on the field or be productive on a consistent basis.

Other options.

Ryan...he and about 4 other players are the only guys on the roster here I see definitely playing in the new Dome here in 2017...Ryan has his share of critics here, but most realize that he's not the problem, the owner is not parting ways with Matt. With the makeup of the WAS roster, it would be tough to get Matt's contract under the cap anyway.

Bradford might be one at the right price, but I might consider Cam Newton or if I wanted a strictly drop back guy...I might make a run at a Brock Osweiler from DEN.

Of the college kids...I think he's dumb as heck (maybe immature should be the word), but a hell of a leader, players respond to him is the kid @ FSU.

 

[Sharkinva]

You aren't even listening to what I have been saying and that's why I get so frustrated with you. When did I ever say you need to accept that opinion as fact? Hell when did I ever say I felt that opinion was fact? It's like you just make shit up and throw it at the wall, then can't understand why I would respond.

I said very clearly that you never acknowledge any positives with Griffin in the game, even when they are presented to you on a silver platter. A perfect example I gave was how Griffin's presence improves the run game. The numbers don't lie, this is not an opinion. With Griffin in the game Morris has much more success. But all you can say is Griffin makes the OL look worse because he takes too many sacks while totally dismissing how he makes the OL look better in the run game. I pointed it out several times yesterday and you just can't admit it, even when the numbers are very clear.

I have been much more fair in my assessment of Kirk than you have when discussing Griffin. End of story.

Maybe because I expect more of a potential "franchise" QB. And yes the numbers have improved with Griffin in the game for our ground game. At least this year. But honestly I dont think Griffin was all that impactful on our ground game last year. And i think the drop off has more to do with the coaching and what we are trying to do now as apposed to Griffin being some magic Bullet. And simply put, the positives you want acknowledged are what most people would expect from what is dubbed a potential franchise QB. And the rub is, you dont think that there is any one that even deserves to be considered as even possible competition for the position. So what have I made up?? You have made it extremely clear that you feel no QB we would have access to should even be considered. Its Griff or nothing basically. Or is this not what you are driving for??

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Maybe because I expect more of a potential "franchise" QB. And yes the numbers have improved with Griffin in the game for our ground game. At least this year. But honestly I dont think Griffin was all that impactful on our ground game last year. And i think the drop off has more to do with the coaching and what we are trying to do now as apposed to Griffin being some magic Bullet. And simply put, the positives you want acknowledged are what most people would expect from what is dubbed a potential franchise QB. And the rub is, you dont think that there is any one that even deserves to be considered as even possible competition for the position. So what have I made up?? You have made it extremely clear that you feel no QB we would have access to should even be considered. Its Griff or nothing basically. Or is this not what you are driving for??

Your opinion that you expect more from Griffin is shared by all of us. Nobody feels he is a top QB right now. But your posts make him sound like the worst QB in the league who has no chance at success and that's nonsense.

Regarding his effect on the running game it's not just this year, it's been throughout Morris' career. See the link:RGIII makes Alfred Morris and the Redskins running game better - The Washington Post

As far as other options I made my argument regarding the other options Yj_y19 presented earlier in the thread. . If you really believe that Ryan Mallet, TJ Yates etc give us a better chance to win then I'll disagree and leave it at that. If you have another plan then I"m all ears. But to date nobody has shown me that there is a better alternative so that's why I am holding the opinion that I have held. Hope that's clear.

 

[Sharkinva]

Your opinion that you expect more from Griffin is shared by all of us. Nobody feels he is a top QB right now. But your posts make him sound like the worst QB in the league who has no chance at success and that's nonsense.

Regarding his effect on the running game it's not just this year, it's been throughout Morris' career. See the link:RGIII makes Alfred Morris and the Redskins running game better - The Washington Post

As far as other options I made my argument regarding the other options Yj_y19 presented earlier in the thread. . If you really believe that Ryan Mallet, TJ Yates etc give us a better chance to win then I'll disagree and leave it at that. If you have another plan then I"m all ears. But to date nobody has shown me that there is a better alternative so that's why I am holding the opinion that I have held. Hope that's clear.

Here is my thing on the whole better chance to win thing... we have not been WINNING with him. So I think that line of thinking is garbage. Because we had just as much a chance to WIN the games that Cousins started as we have had with Griffin in there. We have not WON a game with him playing a prominent role in over a year. Aside from the Giants game where we got blown out, we have had a chance to win about the same number of games with either QB. I will grant you that Griffin makes shit more exciting. But the better chance to win line is officially bullshit.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Shark,

I can live with the possibility that RG3 may not be the answer & perhaps the team might need to go in another direction. However - can we please already stop with the nonsense about Cousins. The guy is a turnover machine - period. He might someday change his ways, but he simply cannot be trusted at this time.

Stop comparing him to RG3 - just judge him on his own merits. For God's sakes he was benched for McCoy - not RG3. This idea that he is somehow being treated unfairly is complete nonsense. What fan in their right mind wants this guy to be the starting QB of this team? Please do us a favor & leave him out of the conversation - he should flat out not be considered as the future of the Redskins. Again - say what you like about RG3 but enough already with the Cousins nonsense.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Here is my thing on the whole better chance to win thing... we have not been WINNING with him. So I think that line of thinking is garbage. Because we had just as much a chance to WIN the games that Cousins started as we have had with Griffin in there. We have not WON a game with him playing a prominent role in over a year. Aside from the Giants game where we got blown out, we have had a chance to win about the same number of games with either QB. I will grant you that Griffin makes shit more exciting. But the better chance to win line is officially bullshit.

The difference of course is Cousins played a huge role in those losses where Griff simply did not do enough to win. I say that even though he lead the team down the field and into the the lead not once but twice late in the game on Sunday only to have the defense give it right back. That is an entirely different performance than Kirk Cousins throwing multiple picks and huge fumbles on top of his inability to win games on the last possession. Not even close to the same thing out of our QBs

I can't even imagine your reaction had Griff missed wide open TDs as Bridgewater did early in the game.

 

[Sharkinva]

The difference of course is Cousins played a huge role in those losses where Griff simply did not do enough to win. I say that even though he lead the team down the field and into the the lead not once but twice late in the game on Sunday only to have the defense give it right back. That is an entirely different performance than Kirk Cousins throwing multiple picks and huge fumbles on top of his inability to win games on the last possession. Not even close to the same thing out of our QBs

I can't even imagine your reaction had Griff missed wide open TDs as Bridgewater did early in the game.

Cousins played a HUGE roll in two of the losses I will grant you. But you make it seem like the kid throws five INTs a game every game or something. And Griffin has missed wide open receivers. Look I agree Griff has not thrown a pick to end a game. So Kirk is more polarizing in that respect. But to say he gives us the best chance to win in my opinion is like saying "Well she is rather cute for a fat chick, or that car runs nice for what it is".

 

[skinz2winz]

Get it right dude, I didnt want him even before we made the trade because to me he was just a nicer more accurate version of Vick. So if that makes me a hater, you know what.. you are right I will own it. Im a hater. And you are a fan boy and thus you judge Cousins based on your fanboy love of RG3. And i dont ignore what he did year one. Even a broke dick dog gets to hump something once in a while. Year one was the fluke.

Ok tough guy! You can save your fan boy comments for someone else, DUDE.

I see Griffin's potential and his ceiling which is much higher than say Cousins or McCoy for that matter. That potential can be seen through the eyes of a coach or someone that has actually coached football for the past 25 years. Not some arm chair QB who thinks he knows more about football than actual NFL coaches who see Griffin's potential. So until they part ways with Griffin, I will always support Griffin or any other QB that trot's onto the field for the Washington Redskins. By the way, you cannot discount year one as it happened, it's set in stone and Washington won the NFCE because of Griffin's play at QB. He hasn't played much since due to injury but none the less, he will develop and hopefully lead the franchise back to prominence.

HTTR!

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Leaving RG3 to the side - why in the world would anyone believe that Mallet will be anything more than a journeyman in the NFL? Maybe he will surprise me, but I will be 100% shocked if this guy is anything more than a career backup. If not then I am shocked that he cannot displace a career scrub like Fitzpatrick (who would give Cousins a run in the INT dept).

Houston Texans switch to Ryan Mallett as starting quarterback - ESPN

Uh-oh. May have spoke too soon - lol.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

So until they part ways with Griffin, I will always support Griffin or any other QB that trot's onto the field for the Washington Redskins.

I just don't understand why EVERY Redskins fan does not feel this way. I certainly do. It just baffles & irks me that some folks both here & in the real world appear to take delight when any of the Redskins QBs fail & then rail non-stop with the "I told you so s". Amazing.

 

[Sharkinva]

Ok tough guy! You can save your fan boy comments for someone else, DUDE.

I see Griffin's potential and his ceiling which is much higher than say Cousins or McCoy for that matter. That potential can be seen through the eyes of a coach or someone that has actually coached football for the past 25 years. Not some arm chair QB who thinks he knows more about football than actual NFL coaches who see Griffin's potential. So until they part ways with Griffin, I will always support Griffin or any other QB that trot's onto the field for the Washington Redskins. By the way, you cannot discount year one as it happened, it's set in stone and Washington won the NFCE because of Griffin's play at QB. He hasn't played much since due to injury but none the less, he will develop and hopefully lead the franchise back to prominence.

HTTR!

So by your logic, coaches, talent scouts and GMs dont miss all the time on these cant miss guys?? I never said or hinted at taking year one away. I simply think that year one was a fluke. And had they tried to play RG3 in a more traditional offense, he would have looked more like average bob that we have today. I dont give a damn about ceilings and the quote "giving us the est chance to win". Because simple fact is, we havent won a game with him as starter in over a year. The only way he shows to be actually productive is to run the style of offense most agree puts him in harms way.

I just don't understand why EVERY Redskins fan does not feel this way. I certainly do. It just baffles & irks me that some folks both here & in the real world appear to take delight when any of the Redskins QBs fail & then rail non-stop with the "I told you so s". Amazing.

Let me ask you something Socal... if you honestly believed something was a bad idea going in, but the powers that be did it any way, are you then going to flip and go.. you know this might have been a good idea after all and start singing the praises of what you considered to be a bad idea?? Basically what you are telling me i should do is, change my opinion of who I think we got simply because we got him??

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Still waiting on Shark's proposal to find a better option once he gets of his high horse of idiocy