my honest appraisal of RG3 and questions on what to do

[skinsdad62]

Dad, it has nothing to do with whats on the film. My position is only an opinion, just like the guy analyzing the film and writing the article. Its not right and its not wrong. Its just an opinion. DGF's position is that he is getting better as evidenced by this article. Well, just because has executed a play correctly on occasion does not, in my mind, mean that he is getting better. He has always occasionally executed plays. Its not like he failed 100% of time. In fact, he probably succeeds more than he fails. But I don't see any consistency to led me to the OPINION that he is improving. He seems to make the same mistakes with the same frequency as he did early last year.

As for my position, I'm curious if you even know what it is. I honestly feel I am one of the most middle of the road posters when it comes to RG3. I am disappointed, but not ready to give up on him. But I'm also of the opinion that if he isn't going to work out, for what ever reason, have a back up plan. Hell, Shanahan did when he drafted KC. This is year 3 for RG3. If after 3 years as an NFL QB, he still can't read defenses or get rid of the ball in a timely fashion, then I have serious concerns that he ever will. So developing a Plan B makes perfect sense to me. That is not to say cut him after this year. But have options as you go into next year and open up the job for competition. As Shark said above, why the concern over bringing in competition? Is he that fragile that he would implode? Why is that such a far fetched concept as DGF makes it out to be? If he rises to the challenge, he should beat out any competition we bring in here.

i dont think the film is opinion at all it shows exactly what he did

and the bad film will show what he did wrong and that will be as much fact as the good



hey i have no issue if they bring in someone to compete for the job

my issue is you say he cant read defenses , in this game he did

getting rid of the ball in a timely fashion , that will come in time but it is also well known that running qbs take time getting rid of the ball

in time he will get better but we need to have patience while this is worked out

he has 7 games to show it then all bets are off

 

[Sharkinva]

Nobody is saying you are right or wrong - my pt is I don't care. Perhaps I am not reading you correctly. Let me phrase this another way - when RG3 is in the game for the Redskins do you root for him 100% of the time? Simple question.

IM rooting for the team period. So your belief is that i should be hoping he does awesome even if I expect he wont. And i get that. But then Im not different that fans of this same team who make statements like I wish they would bench Polumbus, or why is (enter player name) still on this team. The only real difference is, Im not willing to change my opinion of what and who RG3 is based on the fact that he is a Redskin. Sure for the team sake I hope he proves me wrong. But am I a fan of the player simply because the team was dumb enough to get him?? Not in the least. So to directly answer your question, I route for him 0% of the time. IM a fan of whats best for the team, and I dont think he is best for the team.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

In other words, you don't have a plan. Even if he doesn't improve and he stays, in your words "not good right now" we ride him until his contract is up? Talk about idiocy........

You asked for my plan, I have given it to you. Repeatedly. Pulling the plug on a guy when you have this much invested in him and with this much talent is a panic move suggested by message board posters who want a fix, NOW even if it means turning to stiffs like TJ Yates. That is a panic move, the sort of impatient move this team has been criticized for over the years and for good reason.

If you don't like my plan that's fine. But spare me the lecture. You have been attacking me for 2 days for suggesting a plan that the team, read people who get paid for a living to make decisions like this unlike you, are going to follow.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

BTW, if you would actually take the time to read instead of just react, I never said bail on the guy.

Bringing in the guys you mentioned in an open competition for Robert will be seen as bailing on the guy. You don't open up the job to competition unless you are getting Blaine Gabbert like performance and Robert Griffin had not played anywhere near that poorly.

By the way when did I ever say he was "not good right now"? I can find a post where I said he is not a top QB right now but please show me where I said what you said I posted.

Then we can talk about reading posts instead of just reacting.

 

[j_y19]

i dont think the film is opinion at all it shows exactly what he did

and the bad film will show what he did wrong and that will be as much fact as the good



hey i have no issue if they bring in someone to compete for the job

my issue is you say he cant read defenses , in this game he did

getting rid of the ball in a timely fashion , that will come in time but it is also well known that running qbs take time getting rid of the ball

in time he will get better but we need to have patience while this is worked out

he has 7 games to show it then all bets are off

I agree with you 100%. That's basically what I've been saying. Play him the rest of this year no matter what and if he shows improvement, keep working with him. If he doesn't then develop a plan b. My plan b would be to bring in competition.

BTW, I also agree the film does show facts. The opinion part is if he is getting better. He has always been able to play from the pocket somewhat. My concerns are the mistakes that he makes. They still show up with regularity after 3 years. Thus my opinion is that he hasn't shown any real growth as a pocket passer. This does not mean that he doesn't execute it right sometimes. It is my opinion that this is what we are seeing on this tape.

 

[skinsdad62]

I agree with you 100%. That's basically what I've been saying. Play him the rest of this year no matter what and if he shows improvement, keep working with him. If he doesn't then develop a plan b. My plan b would be to bring in competition.

BTW, I also agree the film does show facts. The opinion part is if he is getting better. He has always been able to play from the pocket somewhat. My concerns are the mistakes that he makes. They still show up with regularity after 3 years. Thus my opinion is that he hasn't shown any real growth as a pocket passer. This does not mean that he doesn't execute it right sometimes. It is my opinion that this is what we are seeing on this tape.

the "getting better part " is in this game he did it right more often then he did in the past

and again his "indecision" shows up differently the say KC's (the more polished pocket guy " ) Rg3 takes sacks that arent needed , KC turns the ball over

both will improve over time

 

[j_y19]

the "getting better part " is in this game he did it right more often then he did in the past

and again his "indecision" shows up differently the say KC's (the more polished pocket guy " ) Rg3 takes sacks that arent needed , KC turns the ball over

both will improve over time

For the sake of argument, I'll concede the point about his playing better this last game (although I really think it was a typical game for him, he has always had good plays), but I need to see consistency multiple games in a row. But what I really need to see is the minimizing of the same mistakes. While he may have done some good this last game, his mistakes were critical. If all that mattered were the good plays, Rex Grossman would be in the HOF.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

the "getting better part " is in this game he did it right more often then he did in the past

and again his "indecision" shows up differently the say KC's (the more polished pocket guy " ) Rg3 takes sacks that arent needed , KC turns the ball over

both will improve over time

Haven't you been paying attention? Sacks are just as bad as interceptions.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I agree with you 100%. That's basically what I've been saying. Play him the rest of this year no matter what and if he shows improvement, keep working with him. If he doesn't then develop a plan b. My plan b would be to bring in competition.

BTW, I also agree the film does show facts. The opinion part is if he is getting better. He has always been able to play from the pocket somewhat. My concerns are the mistakes that he makes. They still show up with regularity after 3 years. Thus my opinion is that he hasn't shown any real growth as a pocket passer. This does not mean that he doesn't execute it right sometimes. It is my opinion that this is what we are seeing on this tape.

This is the basis of our disagreement. Neither of us see him as great right now. But I see him as playing OK to good, certainly good enough to win on Sunday if the defense did not give up the lead twice late in the game and certainly better than a TJ Yates type will play over the long term. . You on the other hand see Griff with concerning flaws in his game that may never be fixed. So you think a viable long term option is a guy like TJ Yates. While I agree about Griffin's issues even if he never improves I believe he gives the team much better chance at success than a TJ Yates. So I do not understand what purpose bring in a QB like that to compete serves.

What about my suggestion that rather than having a QB like that where he needs a near perfect 52 around him to have continued success we simply stick with Griff and give him a OL like Rypien had? Certainly it's easier to build one unit than an entire team and with time in the pocket maybe his biggest weakness is reduced and his strengths capitalized. Or the question of how you would expect this organization to build a team around the TJ Yates like QB as they did in Baltimore with Flacco?

 

[KickSaveDave]

What about my suggestion that rather than having a QB like that where he needs a near perfect 52 around him to have continued success we simply stick with Griff and give him a OL like Rypien had? Certainly it's easier to build one unit than an entire team and with time in the pocket maybe his biggest weakness is reduced and his strengths capitalized. Or the question of how you would expect this organization to build a team around the TJ Yates like QB as they did in Baltimore with Flacco?

What are you, a wizard? An OL like the Hogs in 1991 comes around once a generation. 2 out of the 5 of them went to the Pro Bowl and Jacoby should have gone also. Russ Grimm is a Hall of Fame OG, he was a backup on that OL. They were so stacked that Jacoby started the season at guard, with Ed Simmons at tackle. They had given up 7 sacks through 15 and a half games which would have been an NFL record low (ended up with 9 because of benching Ryp for Rutledge at halftime).

Dude, if we had THAT OL, Mark Rypien, you, me or SkinsDad could play QB and we'd win 9 games.


Why you gotta go making me all nostalgic for the good ole days?

 

[Sharkinva]

What are you, a wizard? An OL like the Hogs in 1991 comes around once a generation. 2 out of the 5 of them went to the Pro Bowl and Jacoby should have gone also. Russ Grimm is a Hall of Fame OG, he was a backup on that OL. They were so stacked that Jacoby started the season at guard, with Ed Simmons at tackle. They had given up 7 sacks through 15 and a half games which would have been an NFL record low (ended up with 9 because of benching Ryp for Rutledge at halftime).

Dude, if we had THAT OL, Mark Rypien, you, me or SkinsDad could play QB and we'd win 9 games.


Why you gotta go making me all nostalgic for the good ole days?

Just playing Devils advocate a little here. But any one else notice the O-line every one wants to be like right now has given up 3 less sacks than our shitty line. And mind you thats also with 33 less pass attempts by their QBs... IM just saying man. And this wasnt directed at you in particular Dave.... Just doing my job and tossin it out there.

 

[skinsdad62]

again poor o/line play shows up in sacks with Rg3 and INts with KC

right now we have pressure up the middle vs the run and pass . now we may have 2 more answers on the team . i think we need one more with williams a lock

 

[skinsdad62]

What are you, a wizard? An OL like the Hogs in 1991 comes around once a generation. 2 out of the 5 of them went to the Pro Bowl and Jacoby should have gone also. Russ Grimm is a Hall of Fame OG, he was a backup on that OL. They were so stacked that Jacoby started the season at guard, with Ed Simmons at tackle. They had given up 7 sacks through 15 and a half games which would have been an NFL record low (ended up with 9 because of benching Ryp for Rutledge at halftime).

Dude, if we had THAT OL, Mark Rypien, you, me or SkinsDad could play QB and we'd win 9 games.


Why you gotta go making me all nostalgic for the good ole days?

i think we need to work to that kind of o/line particularly if your qb play is suspect
we may not get the hogs but we could get very good or at least the o/line being a strenth

and make no mistake about it our qb play is suspect

 

[Sportster 72]

The OP is spot on with a lot of his assessment of RG3.

A few points from afar.

#1...the expectation for RG3 was way too high for a guy that played in a read option OFC, but could throw pretty well.

#2...if he had been groomed to be more of a Pro Style QB from day one, he would not have had the rookie year he had, but by now would be (theoritically) much further along as a pro QB.

#3. bottomline, you have a QB who is most productive in an OFC that is not conducive to winning on a consistent level in the NFL, nor does the QB have the durability to run said OFC at this level.

What do you do?

IMO you have 2 choices, but both include keeping RG3

Scrap the read-option OFC and give RG3 2 years to figure out a pro style OFC and at the end of that stint, he will have been in the league 5 yrs and clearly will be what he is going to be at that point...then you keep him or move on.

Stay with the same type of OFC and hope that he can stay healthy in '15, but you have to be ready to pull the plug and go with the new prospect if he can't stay on the field or be productive on a consistent basis. QUOTE]

You guys are so intent in arguing with each other and trying to prove you are right that you ignored the best and most accurate post on these pages. I believe those are the two choices available to the team. I don't think he will last long if choice two is the direction. Everytime he gets hit it looks like a disaster compared to Luck or Big Ben taking a hit.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I agree that was a rock solid post. But when bombs are being hurled at you it's hard not to respond.

I'll admit to having concerns about spending so much on a running QB from a spread offense after that trade. But others on the old board pointed out that he is not just a running QB, he had a great arm, was a tremendous passer, and even when his legs go he could always rely on that, unlike McNabb. I was always convinced that he could certainly learn the other things, you can't learn great passing talent.

Now obviously that is move of a concern. They have tried to make him a pocket passer and it didn't work so well so they have gone back. For now. But he can still learn to plahy from the pocket as they run the read option, as Dad has said they don't run that offense every play.

So we can't recreate the HOGs, we can still provide him with better protection. And with that protection you will get a good QB. His inability to read defenses is overrated. He is improving there.. His penchant to hold the ball too long and his lack of pocket presence is a much bigger concern. But he makes plays. This is not Geno Smith as many here seem to indicate. Given more time he would be a fine QB, just not a HOF QB.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

The OP is spot on with a lot of his assessment of RG3.

A few points from afar.

#1...the expectation for RG3 was way too high for a guy that played in a read option OFC, but could throw pretty well.

#2...if he had been groomed to be more of a Pro Style QB from day one, he would not have had the rookie year he had, but by now would be (theoritically) much further along as a pro QB.

#3. bottomline, you have a QB who is most productive in an OFC that is not conducive to winning on a consistent level in the NFL, nor does the QB have the durability to run said OFC at this level.

What do you do?

IMO you have 2 choices, but both include keeping RG3

Scrap the read-option OFC and give RG3 2 years to figure out a pro style OFC and at the end of that stint, he will have been in the league 5 yrs and clearly will be what he is going to be at that point...then you keep him or move on.

Stay with the same type of OFC and hope that he can stay healthy in '15, but you have to be ready to pull the plug and go with the new prospect if he can't stay on the field or be productive on a consistent basis. QUOTE]

You guys are so intent in arguing with each other and trying to prove you are right that you ignored the best and most accurate post on these pages. I believe those are the two choices available to the team. I don't think he will last long if choice two is the direction. Everytime he gets hit it looks like a disaster compared to Luck or Big Ben taking a hit.

Good post. As I have stated in the past I truly believe that with RG3 the Redskins should attempt to emulate the Seahawks system with Wilson. I don't believe that you can or should use RG3 as strictly a pocket passer. That doesn't mean that he should be running the ball most of the time. However - you need to take advantage of his talents by rolling him out & running the ball when necessary but only if the risk of getting hurt is minimized. Both Wilson & Kaep seem to do this pretty well. It basically relies on being smarter & running out of bounds, throwing the ball away, etc when needed.

Don't see any reason why this would not work & yes this does also involve upgrades to the O-line since quite frankly some current O-line starters don't belong in the NFL.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

What are you, a wizard? An OL like the Hogs in 1991 comes around once a generation. 2 out of the 5 of them went to the Pro Bowl and Jacoby should have gone also. Russ Grimm is a Hall of Fame OG, he was a backup on that OL. They were so stacked that Jacoby started the season at guard, with Ed Simmons at tackle. They had given up 7 sacks through 15 and a half games which would have been an NFL record low (ended up with 9 because of benching Ryp for Rutledge at halftime).

Dude, if we had THAT OL, Mark Rypien, you, me or SkinsDad could play QB and we'd win 9 games.


Why you gotta go making me all nostalgic for the good ole days?

You don't necessarily need an O-line with all Pro-Bowlers. As I stated before one major addition on the O-line could do wonders since likely it will improve the play of the other starters. If you add a high pick or two for next season along with perhaps a mid level FA it could go a long ways. Remember - you still have two O-line draft picks from the past draft. Don't simply write them off because of whatever has happened to date - development often takes time.

Forget the Hogs - I would be happy if they had the line from the Gibbs II era. You had Samuels and Jansen in their prime along with a very productive Randy Thomas & others - they weren't bad. Remember - the O-line functions well as a unit - not a bunch of individuals. I would also spend a lot of time in the offseason ensuring that the RBs block well since there have been issues in that area at times.

A lot of room for improvement in that area. However - there are is also potential for some major improvements in that area beginning next season.

 

[KickSaveDave]

Well the 1991 Hogs was, IMO, the single greatest OL season in NFL history, so yeah I get that we're not getting that any time soon. And yes, between this current mess and those Hogs there is a lot of room for improvement. I'd like to see Gruden finally give up on Chester and Lavau like he's given up on Polumbus, and put Ribs and Long in there at guard. I have a very hard time believing we'd be any worse off right now and we'd be making progress towards seeing if we have the answer for next year.

Moses is obviously behind Compton, so unless Moses makes a huge leap this offseason, he's not the answer at RT.

 

[skinsdad62]

The OP is spot on with a lot of his assessment of RG3.

A few points from afar.

#1...the expectation for RG3 was way too high for a guy that played in a read option OFC, but could throw pretty well.

#2...if he had been groomed to be more of a Pro Style QB from day one, he would not have had the rookie year he had, but by now would be (theoritically) much further along as a pro QB.

#3. bottomline, you have a QB who is most productive in an OFC that is not conducive to winning on a consistent level in the NFL, nor does the QB have the durability to run said OFC at this level.

What do you do?

IMO you have 2 choices, but both include keeping RG3

Scrap the read-option OFC and give RG3 2 years to figure out a pro style OFC and at the end of that stint, he will have been in the league 5 yrs and clearly will be what he is going to be at that point...then you keep him or move on.

Stay with the same type of OFC and hope that he can stay healthy in '15, but you have to be ready to pull the plug and go with the new prospect if he can't stay on the field or be productive on a consistent basis. QUOTE]

You guys are so intent in arguing with each other and trying to prove you are right that you ignored the best and most accurate post on these pages. I believe those are the two choices available to the team. I don't think he will last long if choice two is the direction. Everytime he gets hit it looks like a disaster compared to Luck or Big Ben taking a hit.

i think you have to let Rg3 be Rg3 or else it wont work . i am beginning to believe that Rg3 is more worried about his critics then simply having fun

the run game is better with the threat of the run by Rg3

what is needed is there has to be more patience from the people so he can learn and execute the nuances of the position . he has shown he can make reads and do things from the pocket , he just has to get used to doing it regularly

 

[skinzfan]

IMO Griffin will never be a top tier QB in the NFL but agree he should continue to start when he's healthy. There are more than a dozen players starting for the team that deserve a Plan B. Griffin should be far down that list while he's under contract. The whole notion that Griffin will be available to play until his contract is up is far fetched to me. As Cousins has proven to be a TO machine, Griffin is an injury machine. He wasn't even touched during his latest injury. Also, if you take a look at his "slide" in last weeks game he's lucky he wasn't hurt there. He still doesn't know how to slide, his legs and feet were separated. KC and Colt will get more opportunities to play this year or next.