Vea vs Payne

[Ruzious]

For both I would say look at how they were asked to play in college before making a determination on either of them. I mean its not like we are trying to turn a running QB into a pocket passer here.

We are asking two very talented D-line players to at worst be the run stopper in the middle that this team NEEDS. And at best, develop their game to actually push the pocket. Im fine if our Nose Tackle in the base defense gets very few sacks, as long as I dont have to constantly watch the other teams RB breaking off 7-70 yards a clip straight up the middle, while said NT is moon walking into the safety's chest.

Well, unless you're smarter than every person paid to evaluate talent that I've heard, there's no reason to expect that Payne will be anything more than a run defender. Vea has shown ability to help on pass rushing, but... again his conditioning is being heavily questioned to the point that he's not expected to play more than half the defensive snaps. Would I still consider Vea at 13? Absolutely. He's the best run-stuffer in the draft and at least has a reasonable chance to help against the pass. It's just a disappointment that he has the conditioning issue - particulary given our history with players with conditioning problems.

 

[Ruzious]

I'm somewhere between 60 and 70% sure that we'll make a pick at 13. Either Payne or Vea is fine with me, just as long as we all agree that either is a pick strictly on need. If a trade down doesn't happen, I still believe that Bruce and Co. aren't thinking either of those guys but rather one of these guys:

Minkah Fitzpatrick
Derwin James
Ronnie Harrison

Could be, but I'm thinking a LBer is more likely, because I think Fitz and Der will be gone, and that's way too high for Harrison.

 

[Sharkinva]

Well, unless you're smarter than every person paid to evaluate talent that I've heard, there's no reason to expect that Payne will be anything more than a run defender. Vea has shown ability to help on pass rushing, but... again his conditioning is being heavily questioned to the point that he's not expected to play more than half the defensive snaps. Would I still consider Vea at 13? Absolutely. He's the best run-stuffer in the draft and at least has a reasonable chance to help against the pass. It's just a disappointment that he has the conditioning issue - particulary given our history with players with conditioning problems.

Scouts and analysts have a little more insight on the players because they are by and large being paid to make these predictions. And they could be right in that Payne and Vea are simply maxed out at the players they will be in some respects. But from my point of view, if these guys are maxed out, they aint worth a 1st round pick. Nitch players are what you take in the 3rd - 7th round. If Im drafting a guy in the first, Im not looking at what he is today, but where I expect my team to take him in 2-3 years. I think both can improve in the pass rushing department. Im not really sweating Vea's conditioning, because a smart coach will have him in a rotation any way.

 

[skinsdad62]

Well, unless you're smarter than every person paid to evaluate talent that I've heard, there's no reason to expect that Payne will be anything more than a run defender. Vea has shown ability to help on pass rushing, but... again his conditioning is being heavily questioned to the point that he's not expected to play more than half the defensive snaps. Would I still consider Vea at 13? Absolutely. He's the best run-stuffer in the draft and at least has a reasonable chance to help against the pass. It's just a disappointment that he has the conditioning issue - particulary given our history with players with conditioning problems.

i saw plenty of push from him in the national championship game vs GA

 

[Hambombs]

I'm going Vea

 

[Stymietee]

I like Payne, those Saban/ Alabama guys know winning. That sort of attitude goes a long way.

 

[gkekoa]

I like Payne, those Saban/ Alabama guys know winning. That sort of attitude goes a long way.

Do they ever end up as good as they were at Alabama?

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Do they ever end up as good as they were at Alabama?

Alabama players

NFL.com Draft 2018 - NFL Draft History: Full Draft Year

 

[gkekoa]

Alabama players

NFL.com Draft 2018 - NFL Draft History: Full Draft Year

Exactly my point. Very few of those players have lived up to their draft status. I believe there is so much talent on the defensive side of the ball there, that they mask the holes in each other’s game.

 

[Stymietee]

Do they ever end up as good as they were at Alabama?

We'll see if he's drafted here. I'm not sure if it's ever happened before...one team taking a player in consecutive years that not only played on the same NCAA championship team, but on the same side of the ball side by side.

BTW: If they end up masking their weaknesses, isn't that a good thing?

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Any player who improves this roster is a good thing to me! HTTR

 

[redskin4209]

I like Payne, those Saban/ Alabama guys know winning. That sort of attitude goes a long way.

I with you Sty. I would like a trade down at 13 also. I like Vea but Payne is more versatile.

 

[Stymietee]

I with you Sty. I would like a trade down at 13 also. I like Vea but Payne is more versatile.

Yep! Vea will go to either Tampa Bay at 7 or the Raiders at 10. If by some lucky happenstance both are there at 13, I'd still consider a trade down believing that one of them would still be there at the point where we end up. Not too far down though.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I'm very biased since I'm a UW alumn, but I believe that Vita Vea is a special talent in the mold of Haloti Ngata. Guy can really move for someone of his size and he's just as strong as you'd expect for someone of his stature. Additionally, generally you'd assume a 6'4 340lb guy would only specialize in run stuffing, but Vea surprisingly generated a strong pass rush for a guy of his size. Vea also I believe can still get better.

Not to knock on Payne, but I find him to be a rather one dimensional player. He's a great run stuffer, but I think that's where his skills end. Vea on the other hand can rush the passer at an above average level, and I believe he has the athleticism to either play NT or 3-4 DE.

I'd say the biggest criticism regarding Vea is that he can still work on a few things that are coachable. He generally plays with a higher than average pad-level and tended to rely too much on his athleticism and strength.

Danny Shelton is a comparable player, but I believe Vea to be a much, much better prospect. Interior defenders played a huge role in the UW defense (generally they'd run a 2-4-5 base defense with two, big heavy DTs) and Vea did that tremendously.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I'm very biased since I'm a UW alumn, but I believe that Vita Vea is a special talent in the mold of Haloti Ngata. Guy can really move for someone of his size and he's just as strong as you'd expect for someone of his stature. Additionally, generally you'd assume a 6'4 340lb guy would only specialize in run stuffing, but Vea surprisingly generated a strong pass rush for a guy of his size. Vea also I believe can still get better.

Not to knock on Payne, but I find him to be a rather one dimensional player. He's a great run stuffer, but I think that's where his skills end. Vea on the other hand can rush the passer at an above average level, and I believe he has the athleticism to either play NT or 3-4 DE.

I'd say the biggest criticism regarding Vea is that he can still work on a few things that are coachable. He generally plays with a higher than average pad-level and tended to rely too much on his athleticism and strength.

Danny Shelton is a comparable player, but I believe Vea to be a much, much better prospect. Interior defenders played a huge role in the UW defense (generally they'd run a 2-4-5 base defense with two, big heavy DTs) and Vea did that tremendously.

Thanks for your insight

 

[seahawksfan234]

Thanks for your insight

My pleasure!

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Exactly my point. Very few of those players have lived up to their draft status. I believe there is so much talent on the defensive side of the ball there, that they mask the holes in each other’s game.

Actually if you discount the 2017 & 2018 drafts (since '18 guys have not played & '17 guys are still TBD due to small sample size) the AL guys in the first 2 rounds have done pretty damn good & this includes some premier NFL talent. You can't really judge too much on later rds since that is a crapshoot regardless of where they went to school. Sure there are some guys who never matched expectations or had personal issues, but that is going to happen.

NP at all w/me in them drafting Payne. Let's hope that the AL trio has many years of success ahead of them.

 

[gkekoa]

Actually if you discount the 2017 & 2018 drafts (since '18 guys have not played & '17 guys are still TBD due to small sample size) the AL guys in the first 2 rounds have done pretty damn good & this includes some premier NFL talent. You can't really judge too much on later rds since that is a crapshoot regardless of where they went to school. Sure there are some guys who never matched expectations or had personal issues, but that is going to happen.

NP at all w/me in them drafting Payne. Let's hope that the AL trio has many years of success ahead of them.

I agree on anything beyond the first two rounds as a crapshoot and shouldn’t count. I just think Baltimore has been horrible in the first two rounds.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I agree on anything beyond the first two rounds as a crapshoot and shouldn’t count. I just think Baltimore has been horrible in the first two rounds.

Oh no - I was referring to the comment about Alabama players - not Baltimore. Oh well - doesn't really matter. I don't care how the rest of the AL guys do in the NFL - only care about those 3 defenders on the Skins - a lot of potential - we will see if it works out.