Offseason thread

[PuckinUgly57]

I always liked Versteeg when he was here in Chicago both times. He got a bum rap from Hawk fans here because he was subpar while playing through an injury--Hawk fans think everyone should play like Kaner (god, I hate that name, to say nothing of that idiotic goal song, Chelsea Handler or Chelsea Clinton or whatever the hell it's called, you're three time Cup winners, stop acting like every goal is a Cup winner you immature assholes).
Didn't like giving up on Versteeg, to say nothing of Lombardi letting the Hawks sign the low priced Europeans the Kings should be coveting.

"Kaner" LOL...I hate it when people refer to him as that. Or any nicknames for that matter unless they are super high quality, like J-Blow.

=)~~

And yes, that goal song sucks too. The Hawks are one of my all time top 3 teams so I enjoy watching them, but I'm not a die hard Hawks fan, I'd put myself around 75-80% compared to how I am with LA but there is no way in hell I could tolerate that song were I a die hard. It's awful and makes ears bleed.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Buy-out question(s):
From what I can see looking at the Cap Friendly NHL website, doesn't look like buying out a player with several years left (Brown) is a very attractive option. Surely, if the Kings are able to trade him, they'll eat some of his annual salary. I guess hypothetical team taking Brown would know the Kings would be willing to eat "x" $$$ less than the average annual buy-out $$$.

The deal with Brown is that other teams know Dumbo holds almost no cards in a deal. They can't even use the "he's a captain" line anymore because of what happened over the summer. That contract of course is the worst anchor holding back any deal; if that thing is even somewhat palatable I don't think Brown survives this past summer as an LA King.

With the shared cap hit under this CBA, teams can split 50% but in Brown's case because of the term AND dollars left, I can't see any team taking on more than 33%, which means LA is on the hook for 2/3 of his remaining contract (5 years/$29.375 million, $5.875 cap hit/$25.5 million actual cash) which would be 5 years/$19.583 million, $3.92 million cap hit/$17 million actual cash.

That's almost a $4 million cap hit for the next 5 years (after 2016-17) that the Kings can do nothing with except see it sitting on the books. This is another example why I say this was the worst contract EVER written by Dumbo.

If you look at the buyout numbers, in 2020-21 and 2021-22 ($3.6 million) the Kings save roughly a whopping $300,000 on a buyout vs. if salary was retained at that 67% figure. A buyout is simply not an option at all.

Best scenarios for LA in this order) are:
- claimed in the ED or trade with no salary retention (completely off the hook)
- trade with salary retention
- Waivers and hoping someone claims him, if not he will be demoted but his cap hit stays on the books except a $950,000 reduction
- a visit with cocaine or oxy or something else ala Richards
- Buyout

Still I have a couple questions related to buy-outs:

Can a player be bought-out in the middle of the season? Or is it only during a certain time period around July 1st?
Wondering if a player can play the entire 2016-17 season, and then be bought out prior to the June Expansion Draft?

Buyout period is only during the summer, starting at either June 15th or 48 hours after the Cup has been awarded (whichever date is later) and runs until June 30. Considering the ED will be June 18-20, there is basically a 3 day window if you were to buy someone out but in all honesty that makes no sense if it is someone you are looking to unload (Brown) or especially if it is a palatable contract (not Brown).

Even after the ED, if he is not claimed, there will be 10 days to make a decision to buy him out or not.

Hope that helps.

 

[LoCal Kings]

Yes, thanks for info. Long train of thought on this one:

I was thinking if there was a trade out there for Brown, then Kings wouldn't want to retain a % of the salary that would be equal or higher than a buy-out scenario. Albeit, salary retention would end when his contract ends vs. buy-out which is twice as long.

The recent signing of the defenseman, Lindholm, by the Ducks got me thinking about buy-outs leading up to Expansion Draft. Unfortunately, looks like they have a good core of d-men. If they don't trade any of their d-men during the season, they will have choices to make on who to protect in the Draft. Looks like the Quacks will be forced to "protect" Bieska due to a NMC. But that leaves Lindholm, Vatanen, Fowler, Despres. Even if they trade one of those guys, there is still 3 left that would be more valuable than Bieska. Hence, my question regarding buy-outs pre-Expansion Draft. I figure a team in their situation would buy out Bieska (only 1 more yr. on contract), before the Draft and eat that cap-hit. Then be able to protect 3 of the aforementioned d-men.

The other case is Winnipeg. If they re-sign Trouba (and mend those bridges), then surely they'd want to protect him. But with Byfuglien and Enstrom with NMC, then they would like loose Tyler Myers. So, same question applies: Would Winnipeg be willing to buy-out Enstrom pre-Draft in order to protect both Trouba and Myers??

I realize a team can protect 4-dmen if they choose. But they would have to be pretty high on their D and pretty low on their Forwards to go that route.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Great point about the buyout prior to the ED, I too thought of that (Bieksa too - the Ducks have a slew of solid defenders and they need to make a decision on who to protect and who to move or not) and could see a team doing that if there are no suitors.

I can see Bieksa being moved at the trade deadline to a contending team - a veteran defender, which teams cannot have enough of during PO time - but they would have to sweeten the pot a bit with maybe a mid level prospect or a 2nd round pick or something to offset the salary since there would be 1 year left on his deal even after acquisition. And let's face it, Bieksa sucks these days - he isn't the same player from 3-4 years ago. He would be sold on name, not talent.

Trouba is a solid young defender, and I think Dumbo is looking at him. It would be awesome if they could move Brown for him, fills a huge hole in the defense while moving Brown and his contract. Winnipeg loves those physical guys too, so maybe his reputation could be a good selling point here, but it all comes down to that contract (again) not to mention young, good defenders are very expensive (total ownership - not just cash) so in addition to Brown the Kings would need to add some stuff, and we haven't even talked retention yet.

Lindholm signed 6 years/$31.5 million, or $5.25 per season. That is the going rate for a solid T3 defender so Trouba will be looking in that ballpark. He has requested a trade however, so I don't think money is the issue here. If that is the case, looking strictly at dollars and assuming he signs for $5.5 million, that is real close to Brown's $5.875 million. I'd rather have those dollars tied up on a young, future core defender than a washed up Dustin Brown.

The issue is Brown is way older and that contract takes Brown into his late 30s compared to Trouba so the add-ins would be pretty substantial from LA's side. Would love to see it happen though if Dumbo can work it.

 

[Kings4OT]

Would be awesome to get Trouba, but there is a huge market for that guy and much better returns

 

[LoCal Kings]

It woukd be awesome to get Trouba. But I think Jets would ask for a minimum of one of the Kings' top 4 defenders (not named Doughty). Either way, then the Kings would be in the position of only protecting DD + 2 more between Martinez, Muzz, McNabb, and a hypothetical Trouba.

As mentioned, If they only protect 4F and 4 D, then they lessen the chance of Brown getting taken in ED.

Don't see Lombardi making a big move only to expose an acquired player in the ED.

 

[Kings4OT]

Setoguchi has played well and brings some decent speed. Hasn't turned into points yet but he is just getting his feet wet

 

[Kings4OT]

On that note, Muffin leaves his guy wide open for a goal

 

[LoCal Kings]

From LAKINGSINSIDER:
As of right now, there’s no official word from hockey operations on which player has been placed on LTIR, though the safest bets would be either Jonathan Quick or Marian Gaborik (most likely Quick). This isn’t a huge surprise; teams are generally protective of their LTIR designations and do not want the amount of salary cap space they have disseminated widely.

I thought a team's CAP space and contracts were pretty much public info? The only variable might be bonuses? While I know the websites like General Fanager and Cap Friendly may not be 100% accurate, I figured they had to be close. I'm thinking other GMs have a decent idea of every team's cap space, and what a LTIR designation for "X" player would do their cap situation?

 

[Stunner_At_Staples_Kings]

Yeah I would agree it would have to be public knowledge. How else would trades even begin to be proposed?

To second that note though, it would be devastating to have it actually be Gaborik. It probably isn't, but the Kings are already looking for help as is.

I was looking and, despite it being obvious, the Kings are 9 games in, and haven't won in regulation yet. Granted, they are figuring out their goaltending situation, but it doesn't feel like bad goaltending has been the real issue in games.

 

[Kings4OT]

but it doesn't feel like bad goaltending has been the real issue in games.

They cant score.....business as usual. In a 3-2 league it sucks to be the team that scores 0

 

[lasportzphan]

0 goals on 9 periods.... yikes.

Good news: solid draft pick may be in order and goodness gracious could the Kings use that.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Yeah I would agree it would have to be public knowledge. How else would trades even begin to be proposed?

To second that note though, it would be devastating to have it actually be Gaborik. It probably isn't, but the Kings are already looking for help as is.

I was looking and, despite it being obvious, the Kings are 9 games in, and haven't won in regulation yet. Granted, they are figuring out their goaltending situation, but it doesn't feel like bad goaltending has been the real issue in games.

Contracts are not general public information but is well known in GM and organizational circles. NHL teams are not required to disclose that information to people like us.

I too believe goaltending not the main issue, Budaj has played well enough to win the last few games, although he is developing a habit it seems to give one up he shouldn't every 2 games. It doesn't help the team in front of him has given him no goal support to work with. That means he needs to be as close to perfect as possible, and while he is decent he is no Quick. He will not steal a game from what I have seen.

This penchant for penalties is absurd and the second period is killing them. Their once vaunted PK looks like shit, which I think is more personnel driven than strategy (cap related not to mention Voynov) but could use some different looks. Muffin is really getting on my nerves again with his bonehead plays and penalties this season, his double changed the game last night.

The injury bug is nutty but they will have to make do, I don't see anything happening on the roster in terms of trades until at least a few more months.

 

[Kings4OT]

being shutout 3 games in a row is unacceptable for any team. Injuries? c'mon most of the "top" players are out there. Something needs to be done sooner rather then later or the season will already be gone

 

[PuckinUgly57]

This is on the top guys for sure. The B6 is pretty bad, the only 2 goal scorers have been Brown and Dowd.

Look back at the two Cup teams, and they had some decent scoring from the B6 players, especially in 2012, when the T6 were shut down - they stepped up. That talent is no longer there but there are guys making $5+, $7+ (and now $10) million and they are not producing. They need to carry this team right now and need to find a way to make things happen. This is Kopitar's first real test as captain and I want to see how he helps turn this around.

I'm not blaming injuries at all, that's part of the game, and I never have. There are 20+ guys on a team that can help contribute and they need to step up now. Regarding losing the season, Dumbo cannot make any moves right now without giving up a high pick, which after the Lucic and Sekera deals and being unable to retain them I disagree doing.

The cap is calculated daily and is very high right now being the start of the season. As the season goes along more cap space opens up but right now nothing of impact can be done without gutting the team elsewhere in either prospects, picks or a roster player.

This is why you don't see a lot of big trades early in the season for any team, let alone LA and why you see guys who have big hits being able to be acquired at /near the deadline when on paper it looked like it couldn't be done (Gaborik for example - he had a $6 million and change hit when 2013-14 started but was around $3 million when the Kings acquired him. On top of that the BJs picked up about $2 million and the Kings only had a cap hit of $750,000 for him for the rest of the season).

Any reinforcements at this time will need to come from roster players or from Ontario.

 

[Kings4OT]

I am aware of the cap situation and how it works. Kings are 10 games in and have 0 wins in regulation and have been shutout 3 games in a row. PK is bad, PP is ho-hum as usual. I think Budaj had played fine but even Quick was unable to win a game when the Kings score 0. Lucic, Sekera, Versteeg.....there was possibly more that could have been done IMO, but maybe not....cant go back now. While it would cost the Kings IMO they need to act soon. Only Arizona and Nashville have less points then the Kings that could very well change as they each played 1 less game. The Kings where just SO by Nashville. While the season is early, many teams dig a hole to start a season and never get out of it. LA is right there IMO

and no this is not panic, but a reality of the roster and lack of desire in many of these players that we have seen for awhile now.

 

[LoCal Kings]

I asked this question a while back: Can Sutter, and more importantly, Lombardi, survive the season and still be employed by the Kings if the team has a bad year (i.e., no playoffs). Honestly, I want Lombardi to stay, even if the Kings miss the playoffs again. He obviously did a great job building the team, and then has made some bad decisions recently which have costs the Kings. The last thing we want is a desperate GM who starts to make far-fetched moves.

As long as Lombardi is in it for the long haul, I think he will do well. That said, I think no major moves this season at all. Not until after Expansion Draft. Question is will Anshutz / AEG tolerate another bad season?

 

[Kings4OT]

I agree and disagree, I think teams will try to posture for draft and its a god time to take advantage of it....they might want something rather then nothing once it looks hopeless....which means later in the season. I just hope the Kings aren't to far out by then

 

[lasportzphan]

10 periods and counting with 0 goals. What is the NHL record for consecutive futility?

 

[LoCal Kings]

Random question:
I believe there is a rule that a team cannot resign a player that they buy-out for 1 year, correct?
But what happens if a team actually re-signs a bought-out player after 1+ yr???
Does that buy-out cap hit stay on the books? + Plus whatever salary they re-sign hypothetical player for?