Higgins offseason thread

[CrashDavisSports]

looks to me like Higgins is staying here through the season, and then he'll likely leave to the highest bidder after that.

it's not hard to get a wide receiver in the NFL, if you really want one. no one wants to end up paying Higgins top 5 WR money and then just discover he dropped off suddenly.

That can happen with any player the second you sign them to that big free agent contract.

 

[Cincyfan78]

looks to me like Higgins is staying here through the season, and then he'll likely leave to the highest bidder after that.

it's not hard to get a wide receiver in the NFL, if you really want one. no one wants to end up paying Higgins top 5 WR money and then just discover he dropped off suddenly.

Not only this - if a team could draft a WR similar to Tee - why trade AND pay for Higgins? If the thought is that the Bengals could get a draft pick and then take a WR to replace Tee - why wouldn't the team trading for Higgins do the same thing?

Again - my feeling is that most teams are not looking to give up a high(er) end draft pick to obtain Tee AND then have to pay him...look, he's good - but he's not a top tier #1 guy like a Chase, Brown, or Jefferson...

 

[DanBengalfan]

Steelers even told Boyd to gtfo

these receivers looking for enormous pay days, yea, you'll sign with someone sometime after the draft.

 

[cincygrad]

The way I have been looking at it is trying to decide which team would the fans be excited to get Tee, give up a high draft pick, and pay a high salary. Given the talent in the draft, I can't think of a single team that this would be the case. If I'm a fan of a receiver needy team, I'm looking at making 2 draft picks in the first 4 rounds. So much talent out there and tons of different types of players.

 

[Cincyfan78]

The way I have been looking at it is trying to decide which team would the fans be excited to get Tee, give up a high draft pick, and pay a high salary. Given the talent in the draft, I can't think of a single team that this would be the case. If I'm a fan of a receiver needy team, I'm looking at making 2 draft picks in the first 4 rounds. So much talent out there and tons of different types of players.

An issue here is that Tee, while good, is not a tier 1 WR. If this were Chase, Jefferson, etc...there would be more movement - but Tee, while good - is a #2 guy who can play as the #1, but isn't a top tier #1 guy. He's a low end #1, or upper end #2 - and those are not guys you go out and give up high/multiple draft picks AND sign to big deals. If you are going to do that - you better get #1 type production out of that guy - and I just don't think Tee is that guy. Very good, yes...top tier #1, no.

 

[DanBengalfan]

An issue here is that Tee, while good, is not a tier 1 WR. If this were Chase, Jefferson, etc...there would be more movement - but Tee, while good - is a #2 guy who can play as the #1, but isn't a top tier #1 guy. He's a low end #1, or upper end #2 - and those are not guys you go out and give up high/multiple draft picks AND sign to big deals. If you are going to do that - you better get #1 type production out of that guy - and I just don't think Tee is that guy. Very good, yes...top tier #1, no.

some team is going to use him as their #1 and then be disappointed that he doesn't play at a top 5 level. Like somehow his stats were diminished because he was on the same team with boyd and chase.

 

[Cincyfan78]

some team is going to use him as their #1 and then be disappointed that he doesn't play at a top 5 level. Like somehow his stats were diminished because he was on the same team with boyd and chase.

I find this is often the case when a really good #2 thinks they are a top tier #1 - they move on, and never live up to the hype.

There is nothing wrong with being a really good #2, especially on a winning team that is going to get you the ball.

At what point do you realize that making an extra million or so here/there isn't worth 6-11 seasons...guys talk about wanting to win all the time, but they all just chase the money.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Ok - 2 thoughts - 1, Texans had an EXTRA 2nd round pick to spend...and is Higgins = Diggs, is Diggs > Higgins...if there were a comp/outline for a potential trade, what teams feel about Higgins in relation to Diggs would likely determine the parameters of any potential trade.

 

[futballiscool]

The way I have been looking at it is trying to decide which team would the fans be excited to get Tee, give up a high draft pick, and pay a high salary. Given the talent in the draft, I can't think of a single team that this would be the case. If I'm a fan of a receiver needy team, I'm looking at making 2 draft picks in the first 4 rounds. So much talent out there and tons of different types of players.

It makes sense for a team with a QB on a rookie deal:

The QB is on a low deal so those teams can afford a financial overpay on a receiver. They're usually desperate to surround them with talent. A team like The Panthers makes sense, so do the Giants or Pats if they take a QB in the 1st rd this year

 

[futballiscool]

Ok - 2 thoughts - 1, Texans had an EXTRA 2nd round pick to spend...and is Higgins = Diggs, is Diggs > Higgins...if there were a comp/outline for a potential trade, what teams feel about Higgins in relation to Diggs would likely determine the parameters of any potential trade.

Higgins is 6 years younger. He's most likely at the start of his prime while Diggs is most likely at the end of his prime

 

[Cincyfan78]

Higgins is 6 years younger. He's most likely at the start of his prime while Diggs is most likely at the end of his prime

Yes, but Diggs has always been a clear #1 guy.

Higgins...not so much.

There in lies the issue with Higgins. As fans we overvalue what he brings to this team. I don't mean that in a bad way. He's a very good WR...but he's a clear #2.

If a #1 guy can only bring a 2nd...and requires a return of draft picks...and he's also under contract (Higgins would require a new contract)...what do you think teams are going to give up? Especially in a very deep draft of very good, young(er), and cheap(er) options...

 

[futballiscool]

Yes, but Diggs has always been a clear #1 guy.

Higgins...not so much.

There in lies the issue with Higgins. As fans we overvalue what he brings to this team. I don't mean that in a bad way. He's a very good WR...but he's a clear #2.

If a #1 guy can only bring a 2nd...and requires a return of draft picks...and he's also under contract (Higgins would require a new contract)...what do you think teams are going to give up? Especially in a very deep draft of very good, young(er), and cheap(er) options...

To put it in perspective Higgins is 25 and Diggs didn't make his first probowl until the season he turned 27. Diggs was very good in Minn but he was more of a 1/1a with Theilen than a true number 1.
The fact the Bengals FO franchise tagged him is an indicator they and some other teams think Higgins can be a number 1 a lot of places in the league

 

[DanBengalfan]

I would have to believe at least 1 team has offered a 4th rounder for Higgins.

I would also have to believe that at least one team has offered around 90% (7.83 million) market value (8.7 million) for tyler boyd and he probably turned his nose up at it.

 

[Cincyfan78]

To put it in perspective Higgins is 25 and Diggs didn't make his first probowl until the season he turned 27. Diggs was very good in Minn but he was more of a 1/1a with Theilen than a true number 1.
The fact the Bengals FO franchise tagged him is an indicator they and some other teams think Higgins can be a number 1 a lot of places in the league

Bengals tagged him because he's a really good #2 that, when paired with a #1 like Chase, and a QB like Burrow - this offense has Super Bowl ability.

The harsh reality is - if teams really viewed Higgins as a true #1 - they would be offering a 1st rounder and/or multiple picks. If this were Chase - teams would be offering a 1st. If this were Jefferson, Brown, etc...etc...

Higgins is a very good WR. He's a #2. No shame in that.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I would have to believe at least 1 team has offered a 4th rounder for Higgins.

I would also have to believe that at least one team has offered around 90% (7.83 million) market value (8.7 million) for tyler boyd and he probably turned his nose up at it.

I am sure that someone is willing to offer a 4th. But Higgins is worth more than that to the Bengals on the field. Higgins, Chase, Burrow make up a Super Bowl caliber offense at the skill positions. Again, though - if teams truly thought Higgins was a pure #1 - they would be willing to offer a 1st/multiple draft picks. If this were Chase, Jefferson, Brown, etc....you know teams would be offering that and willing to pay. For Higgins - he's a nice #2...but a #2. And in a draft that is deep at the WR spot - teams can get who they feel they can get and not have to pay - and especially early on - maybe land a true #1 type WR.

Boyd turned down 2 year $10M from Pitt...so, that is where the market is currently valuing him. Not much.

 

[Cincyfan78]

As an example - a true #1 - AJ Brown was traded for a 1st and a 3rd, and then PHI paid him....

 

[cincygrad]

The Diggs deal is for a 2nd rounder in 25, not this year. My understanding of draft value is that a 2nd rounder next year is basically equivalent to a 3rd rounder this year. So, again, not much value in giving him up. Buffalo let him walk because they have financial issues and he was showing signs of discontent. Tee helps our team this year and if he completely lights it up, with the cap movement, there is no reason the Bengals can't tag him again with the hopes to make a deal.

 

[Cincyfan78]

The Diggs deal is for a 2nd rounder in 25, not this year. My understanding of draft value is that a 2nd rounder next year is basically equivalent to a 3rd rounder this year. So, again, not much value in giving him up. Buffalo let him walk because they have financial issues and he was showing signs of discontent. Tee helps our team this year and if he completely lights it up, with the cap movement, there is no reason the Bengals can't tag him again with the hopes to make a deal.

Paul Dehner and Jay Morrison said, basically, the same thing on the Higgins/Diggs comp.

Bengals are happy with Higgins. There isn't a rift other than Higgins wants a contract. Buff was clearly done with Diggs' games and were not happy with him, and he not happy with the Bills.

A trade like that wouldn't help the Bengals this year because the picks are future picks.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Yes, but Diggs has always been a clear #1 guy.

Higgins...not so much.

There in lies the issue with Higgins. As fans we overvalue what he brings to this team. I don't mean that in a bad way. He's a very good WR...but he's a clear #2.

If a #1 guy can only bring a 2nd...and requires a return of draft picks...and he's also under contract (Higgins would require a new contract)...what do you think teams are going to give up? Especially in a very deep draft of very good, young(er), and cheap(er) options...

I just fundamentally disagree with you on this. I think Higgins is a true #1. We didn't miss a beat when Chase went down with injuries with Higgins playing the main guy. Higgins is that good, but for some reason you keep denying him that label because he has been stunted in growth because of Chase being here taking so many balls.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I just fundamentally disagree with you on this. I think Higgins is a true #1. We didn't miss a beat when Chase went down with injuries with Higgins playing the main guy. Higgins is that good, but for some reason you keep denying him that label because he has been stunted in growth because of Chase being here taking so many balls.

He's a low end #1...top tier #2. It's pretty much what I've said all along.

I think you can get by for some games with him, but I don't think he's a 17 game a season #1 like Chase, Brown, Jefferson.

Again - I'm not trying to pish-posh Higgins - who I think is a very good WR....but I do think "our" fans have overvalued him simply because of how good this offense is with Burrow, and of course Chase on the other side.