16-17 Season Thread

[knowyourenemy]

Im starting to think that the plan all season was to keep Okafor and trade Noel. Flash back to the beginning of the season. Noel complained then unexpectedly had surgery that kept him out. Once available, Brown said Noel wasn't in his rotation. Brown even went out of his way to say he felt sorry for Holmes, not Noel. BC intervenes and Noel starts playing (presumably to increase his trade value.) Everyone suspects Okafor is now going to be traded, theoretically increasing Noel's value.

Granted, we know Okafor/Embiid won't work together they don't need to play at the same time. Embiid will get enough rest days for Okafor to get some pretty solid minutes. What really matters is how Simmons fits in with everyone. Back in June/July, recall that Simmons said he was excited to play with Okafor and Embiid. No mention of Noel.

 

[Rey]

He was at 10 points, 8 boards, 2 blocks, 2 steals, and 2 assists in his rookie year.

He got limited run this year and had to play out of position/next to Okafor last year. Does he get $20M? Maybe. Could they have traded him at that time for what they got now? Probably. I'd rather keep him around as they continue to handle Embiid with kid gloves to see if there is more to the problem.

Right ... but you have to look at things in perspective. He's not going to be playing 30 minutes at Center if Embiid is healthy (and if Embiid gets hurt we're not going anywhere). Noel's earlier #'s were a bit inflated on a bad team and in a different role. In the role he would be playing with a healthy Embiid, Simmons and a high 2017 draft pick in 2018 ... he's not going to be worth making 20 mil. I'm not saying he wouldn't be a nice role player, but you don't pay 20 mil for that imo.

 

[Taddy Mason]

Right ... but you have to look at things in perspective. He's not going to be playing 30 minutes at Center if Embiid is healthy (and if Embiid gets hurt we're not going anywhere). Noel's earlier #'s were a bit inflated on a bad team and in a different role. In the role he would be playing with a healthy Embiid, Simmons and a high 2017 draft pick in 2018 ... he's not going to be worth making 20 mil. I'm not saying he wouldn't be a nice role player, but you don't pay 20 mil for that imo.

Yes, but you're trading him for nothing because of what his role is on this team, not what it would be on another team. All this trade does is let some playoff team pickup Bogut and give Dallas some leverage in keeping Noel or getting something from another team for him. In addition it means I have to watch Okafor play for the next four games. That's the biggest thing I'm disappointed with.

 

[Sparhawk]

If they didnt trade him, he walks.
Something is better than nothing.

 

[knowyourenemy]

If they didnt trade him, he walks.
Something is better than nothing.

He's a RFA.

 

[Rey]

Yes, but you're trading him for nothing because of what his role is on this team, not what it would be on another team. All this trade does is let some playoff team pickup Bogut and give Dallas some leverage in keeping Noel or getting something from another team for him. In addition it means I have to watch Okafor play for the next four games. That's the biggest thing I'm disappointed with.

You have to look at what he's worth to this team ... you don't pay him 20 mil due to his potential value elsewhere. Plus if he were better we would have gotten more for him, it's that simple. He's a nice athletic role-type big ... if he were more than that I'm sure teams would have been lining up.

 

[Taddy Mason]

You have to look at what he's worth to this team ... you don't pay him 20 mil due to his potential value elsewhere. Plus if he were better we would have gotten more for him, it's that simple. He's a nice athletic role-type big ... if he were more than that I'm sure teams would have been lining up.

The Noel conundrum. He sucks, but there's going to be teams lining up to give him $20M.

 

[Sparhawk]

He's a RFA.

And when DAL or BRK throw $20M+ at him, should the Sixers match that for their backup center?

 

[Taddy Mason]

And when DAL or BRK throw $20M+ at him, should the Sixers match that for their backup center?

That's when they can go ahead and try and make a deal. They didn't get shit for him now. Why not wait a few months.

 

[Taddy Mason]

 

[Sparhawk]

That's when they can go ahead and try and make a deal. They didn't get shit for him now. Why not wait a few months.

How many $20M contracts moved at the deadline?
Boogie? Kangz will be Kangz, but you're just going to get crap back.
More and more teams are less willing to let go of picks, unless they are mid to late 1st rounders.

 

[knowyourenemy]

How many $20M contracts moved at the deadline?
Boogie? Kangz will be Kangz, but you're just going to get crap back.
More and more teams are less willing to let go of picks, unless they are mid to late 1st rounders.

Why limit it to $20 million deals at the deadline? Big contracts get moved in the NBA often enough.

 

[knowyourenemy]

So . . .

Simmons is done for the season.
Embiid is unhappy with the front office.

Great.

 

[Rey]

Maybe I'm just missing something here ... are some of you saying that we should have matched a high offer sheet tender after the season and then tried to trade him?

 

[Sparhawk]

Why limit it to $20 million deals at the deadline? Big contracts get moved in the NBA often enough.

Maybe I'm just missing something here ... are some of you saying that we should have matched a high offer sheet tender after the season and then tried to trade him?

In theory, they could have matched any offer sheet to Noel and rolled along with him as an insurance policy to Embiid. Now, when Embiid has to get paid, they should have salary cap room. But, when Simmons has to get paid, they could then move Noel, who should only have a year or two left at $20M+ per.

A possible problem could be the new CBA, which might make it even tougher to make these kinds of trades.
Based on what happened with the outrageous albatross contracts to Mozgov/Deng/Crabbe/etc., it may prove difficult to make these deals without receiving garbage in return. Furthermore, the salaries for star players will just keep getting higher into the $30M range.

Can a team afford to pay $20M to a backup insurance policy?

 

[Four4Four]

SHOCKER!!!!! Simmons will not play this year. 2018 will be another trust the process season. Embiid will continue to on mins restrictions. Maybe he'll play 34 mins instead of 28. And Simmons, will definitely be mins restrictions the whole season and missing back to backs. GO SIXERS

 

[knowyourenemy]

In theory, they could have matched any offer sheet to Noel and rolled along with him as an insurance policy to Embiid. Now, when Embiid has to get paid, they should have salary cap room. But, when Simmons has to get paid, they could then move Noel, who should only have a year or two left at $20M+ per.

A possible problem could be the new CBA, which might make it even tougher to make these kinds of trades.
Based on what happened with the outrageous albatross contracts to Mozgov/Deng/Crabbe/etc., it may prove difficult to make these deals without receiving garbage in return. Furthermore, the salaries for star players will just keep getting higher into the $30M range.

Can a team afford to pay $20M to a backup insurance policy?

I think you're mostly right about all of this (despite some of my posts in disagreement with you.) The cap flexibility we get by letting Noel walk has value to it. And since the team probably wasn't going to pay him anyway, we got a former first round pick and two second rounders out of him. That's pretty much garbage, though -- so I wonder if we could have gotten better garbage in return for him two years from now. Maybe, maybe not.

I guess we will have to see what Anderson becomes and what we can do with those two second rounders. The Mavericks' 2nd round pick in 2017 isn't much worse than, say, the Warriors' 1st round pick in 2017. And it's arguably better, assuming we don't get McDaniels'ed by whoever we pick there. Plus, we got another 2nd rounder in 2018 (also likely to be toward the top of the 2nd round) and Anderson. So, maybe I'm being a little harsh on the trade. Honestly, I just don't like Colangelo.

 

[Rey]

I think you're mostly right about all of this (despite some of my posts in disagreement with you.) The cap flexibility we get by letting Noel walk has value to it. And since the team probably wasn't going to pay him anyway, we got a former first round pick and two second rounders out of him. That's pretty much garbage, though -- so I wonder if we could have gotten better garbage in return for him two years from now. Maybe, maybe not

Why overpay a player like Noel for 2 years to try and get better garbage for him in the future? We can add a defensive role player to replace him for a smidgen of the price.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Why overpay a player like Noel for 2 years to try and get better garbage for him in the future? We can add a defensive role player to replace him for a smidgen of the price.

Because they have plenty of money so salary really shouldn't be a concern. Because Simmons needs talent around him. Because Okafor can't defend very well. Because Embiid has injury issues that could limit his playing time. Noel is a valuable player in today's NBA. Colangelo got virtually nothing for him. Sad.

 

[Rey]

I've been watching a ton of stuff and write ups on Anderson this morning and I think the kid has some potential to contribute. He'll get more minutes with Philly and can drive/shoot pretty well; physical kid too. 7 foot wingspan and a 43" vert (measured legit). His weakness seems to be the mid range game as he isn't the stop and pop type ... unless he improves that he's not likely to get starter minutes. That said, Noel was simply a role player as well ... so if Anderson ends up being a good role playing Wing, that's the equivalent of what Noel would have been for us at Center moving forward.