Would you do this for Weber

[banditshcky11]

If I were in Homer's shoes and considering making a trade for Weber I think the first thing I'd do is goto all the guys with NTC's and find out where they would waive them to goto. The only way I can see swinging Weber long terms is if Briere, Pronger or Bryz weren't here(Timonen gets a pass from me seeing how great he's been and isn't signed past till he's 50). No one will be interested in Pronger now, and Bryz was just signed so this leave Briere or packaging several other younger players up to make up the nessecary cap space to bring Weber in for more then 1 season.

Let's say Homer does decided to go the Weber route and Briere was willing to goto Nashville, I think a fair package that could land us Weber would be Briere, Carle & a 1st(might have to include gustaffson too). I know Poille is going to be asking for the moon and the stars(JVR + Schenn/Cotter & a 1st) but the package needs to make sense both ways, including $ and I don't personally feel that we should get Weber if an extension isn't worked out first.

There are other guys that could be had for a lot less then what Weber would cost us, both in trade assets and cap hit. I'm also not comfortable with the whole Pronger situation yet to make this type of move. Will he come back, will he retire, will the NHL let him be on LTIR for 6 years? There is a lot up in the air now and even with 4.5m already coming off the books for next season we still need to re-sign Vorachek & Harry Z.

In a perfect world I would love to get Weber or another big name defensive stud, but with our current cap situation I don't see him being a viable options without moving out a large contract or depleting our newly restocked prospect pool. Being right up against the cap every years sucks balls.

 

[chy1127]

Weber is a true #1 but I would not expect Homer to make a move unless he is going to be signed long term. The Preds face a chance of losing him for nothing. I would offer schenn, Gustaffson and one of Marshall, Holmstrom, or another Phantom. The worst is if they say no. Couturier is off limit. You can't teach his defenisive reponibility. He will be our #1 center sooner than later.

 

[awaz]

Giroux is an absolute superstar. JvR may never get there. We don't know yet, but he is getting better season after season, just not at the insane level that Giroux has, which is understandable.

I'm just saying that if you trade JvR this season, odds are he's going to explode next season, especially on another team where he gets more minutes. He's getting only 15:46 this season, but is still on pace for around 25 goals and 55 points. Look for 70+ points out of him next season. It's only a matter of time.

he's got potential i guess.. but he's improving at a VERY slow rate.. .67 ppg this year, .53 last year, .44 in his first full season.. if he continues on that rate he'll be a point per game player in 2014.. and then he'd be worth is what, 4.5 mill? that he's gunna get next season..

he's still got potential to be a force, i'm not doubting that.. but with the team the flyers have, getting a piece like weber, along with the maturation of schenn/couturier (who are combined, cheaper than jvr will be next season) and the superstardom of giroux.. it could be dangerous.. i'm not turning away a trade just because it has jvr in it.. but nashville better understand that that's a big chip, and shouldn't expect a ton more

 

[lasgop8]

You're giving up all of that talent for Weber and then you need to clear cap space and sign him to a $7-8 million cap hit. The players involved in the trade and the terms of the extension he signs effective immediately would have to be just right for me to even consider such a move.

Mav as AWAZ stated the guy has played 4 or 5 great games out of 200. How can you say that he is going to be great. he doesnt check anyone ever he is fast but not fast enought to blow by defenseman with his outside power move he's not a good passer he's not a good defender and i could go on and on about how he's a good player but nothing special. If you could name something that stands out to you that makes you think he is that good and worth keeping post it so i could look for in what you see.

 

[banditshcky11]

Giroux is an absolute superstar. JvR may never get there. We don't know yet, but he is getting better season after season, just not at the insane level that Giroux has, which is understandable.

I'm just saying that if you trade JvR this season, odds are he's going to explode next season, especially on another team where he gets more minutes. He's getting only 15:46 this season, but is still on pace for around 25 goals and 55 points. Look for 70+ points out of him next season. It's only a matter of time.

^totally agree with everything just said there. Giroux is arguably top 3 in the entire world now, JVR has tons of potential no need to move him unless the return is amazing(Weber would be amazing but they better be willing to accept less and take some cap back from us too).

 

[Maverick426h]

Mav as AWAZ stated the guy has played 4 or 5 great games out of 200. How can you say that he is going to be great. he doesnt check anyone ever he is fast but not fast enought to blow by defenseman with his outside power move he's not a good passer he's not a good defender and i could go on and on about how he's a good player but nothing special. If you could name something that stands out to you that makes you think he is that good and worth keeping post it so i could look for in what you see.

I didn't even mention JvR in that post...lol But regardless, we know he has one of the hardest slapshots on the team and he doesn't even use it all that often. He certainly will though with more time at the point on the power play. I think he is actually big, strong and fast enough to drive wide in the Nhl and dominate. We've seen flashes of it, just not as much this season. I already mentioned his shootout goal last night. Not many big men have those hands in my opinion. We could be looking at the next Erik Cole or perhaps a much more talented/productive version.

I never said he's going to be great, but if he is ever going to start to make that leap, it will happen late this season or next season for sure. Remember that G is dominating now at 23 (almost 24) and JvR is still only 22 (16 months younger). I definitely have patience with him if I am Homer.

 

[lasgop8]

I didn't even mention JvR in that post...lol But regardless, we know he has one of the hardest slapshots on the team and he doesn't even use it all that often. He certainly will though with more time at the point on the power play. I think he is actually big, strong and fast enough to drive wide in the Nhl and dominate. We've seen flashes of it, just not as much this season. I already mentioned his shootout goal last night. Not many big men have those hands in my opinion. We could be looking at the next Erik Cole or perhaps a much more talented/productive version.

I never said he's going to be great, but if he is ever going to start to make that leap, it will happen late this season or next season for sure. Remember that G is dominating now at 23 (almost 24) and JvR is still only 22 (16 months younger). I definitely have patience with him if I am Homer.

I guess well agree to disagree i dont see him being dominant in this league like a number 2 pick is supposed to be also i dont see him being worth more to this team than a Weber would, but if we do keep him i hope you are 100% right.

 

[flyersfan4706]

How about we get Weber without moving anybody in the big 5? (Schenn, Cooter, G, JVR, and Mez)

 

[filosofy29]

How about we FORget Weber without moving anybody in the big 5? (Schenn, Cooter, G, JVR, and Mez)

FTFY.

 

[flyersfan4706]

FTFY.

Non believers gonna non believe.

 

[filosofy29]

Non believers gonna non believe.

lol, I suppose you could just sign him as an RFA next year and pay 5 1st Rounders. So maybe there is a method to your madness!

 

[banditshcky11]

Realistically the more I think about it the more I believe to get Weber in Philly it would be part of a 3 way trade involving send bob out for picks to package into our bid for Weber & that would leave us with another hole. Or maybe send Schenn to Toronto(burkes tried for him before) for a few good prospects & picks to flip to Nashville with a higher salary guy.

This is honestly making my head hurt trying to figure out how to fit a premiere player into our roster during the season and with so many injuries.

 

[flyersfan4706]

lol, I suppose you could just sign him as an RFA next year and pay 5 1st Rounders. So maybe there is a method to your madness!

It can happen.

 

[awaz]

I didn't even mention JvR in that post...lol But regardless, we know he has one of the hardest slapshots on the team and he doesn't even use it all that often. He certainly will though with more time at the point on the power play. I think he is actually big, strong and fast enough to drive wide in the Nhl and dominate. We've seen flashes of it, just not as much this season. I already mentioned his shootout goal last night. Not many big men have those hands in my opinion. We could be looking at the next Erik Cole or perhaps a much more talented/productive version.

I never said he's going to be great, but if he is ever going to start to make that leap, it will happen late this season or next season for sure. Remember that G is dominating now at 23 (almost 24) and JvR is still only 22 (16 months younger). I definitely have patience with him if I am Homer.

this is where we disagree mav.. i just dont see how you can say that

at some point homer is going to start losing patience.. he was ready for jvr to come to philly after his freshman season at UNH, he played 2 more season at UNH and has 2 and half season at the NHL level

max pacioretty and david perron both went after him in their draft (07), play a similar style game, and are at least as good as JvR is.. pac has 25 points in 31 games this season (.81ppg) and perron has 7 points in 7 games after returning from a concussion that wiped out half his career after he had 47 points his rookie season (jvr had 35)

maybe you see something i dont.. but i just see nothing from him that makes me think that JvR is going to break out this season or next.. let alone it being 'for sure'

just as a hindsight addition, logan couture went after him too

 

[PhillyPhaithful48]

Before reading anything else, I don;t think we go fishing until we absolutely need it.

That said, my untouchable list includes Schenn, Read, G, and most likely JvR. Any other combo is OK with me. I don't include Cooter because IMO, he is going to be avery good player but he isn't going to dominate. These other guys have superstar potential. He just has very good career potential.

Our team is young, so I try and move picks instead of prospects.

 

[Maverick426h]

I don't think you can really make that comparison. Pacioretty and Perron are again a year older, getting more opportunities to have success for their respective teams and therefore they are producing more. I'm talking overall ice time, power play time and regular lines. JvR is playing with Talbot and Voracek. With all do respect, that's essentially our third line (and they are just starting to dominate).

 

[awaz]

I don't think you can really make that comparison. Pacioretty and Perron are again a year older, getting more opportunities to have success for their respective teams and therefore they are producing more. I'm talking overall ice time, power play time and regular lines. JvR is playing with Talbot and Voracek. With all do respect, that's essentially our third line (and they are just starting to dominate).

jvr was playing with giroux and jagr at the beginning of the season.. there is no better duo to play with in the NHL right now than those two.. and he got moved off the line in favor of hartnell.. and up until that switch, he'd been playing with giroux for 90% of his career.. so i'm not buying that for him

and that line is starting to dominate because voracek is a sick (though somewhat watered down) combination of jagr and giroux that can skate better than both of them

dont get me wrong.. i like the guy.. i think he has the tools to be special, he just hasn't found the right way to use those tools consistently.. which makes him the most expendable of the 3 super-prospects in my mind.. and if getting a player of weber's caliber (arguably the best d-man in the game) takes trading jvr who at his peak, could be a top 20 forward.. i'm doing it.. i'm not doing jvr plus a whole lot more, but jvr isn't off limits to me

 

[mall3013]

JVR, Carle, 1st rounder. Get it done!

 

[banditshcky11]

JVR, Carle, 1st rounder. Get it done!

Unless Weber comes with an 8 year contract at 7m cap hit or under that's over paying by a lot imo. Remember Weber has no contract, JVR is signed for 6 years and Carle will more then likely be easily signed for around 4m, this draft year is also very deep on defensive prospects so that just seems like a ton to give up unless the guy is locked up long term.

 

[mall3013]

Unless Weber comes with an 8 year contract at 7m cap hit or under that's over paying by a lot imo. Remember Weber has no contract, JVR is signed for 6 years and Carle will more then likely be easily signed for around 4m, this draft year is also very deep on defensive prospects so that just seems like a ton to give up unless the guy is locked up long term.

How does that work? I was asking a kid at work in regard to trades. If Nashville agreed to deal Weber and both sides agree on compensation, would the Flyers have any chance to talk with Weber's agent to discuss long term contract before a deal goes through? It's a steel price if there is no guarantee.