Utley To SF Deal "Advancing"

[Omar 382]

Not a Billy Madison fan I see? Sorry to hear that. And color me green with envy. Remind Adrianna to brush her teeth before kissing you Saturday, I don't think you will want to taste me.

I'll be sure to remind her not to brush her teeth

 

[jvett77]

Not a Billy Madison fan I see? Sorry to hear that. And color me green with envy. Remind Adrianna to brush her teeth before kissing you Saturday, I don't think you will want to taste me.

 

[_phiLLies_]

SF offered a bag of cheetos and throws in a ham sandwich, much the reason why they are "fading" according to reports in the "Utley sweepstakes". The thing is that there isn't really a big need for a guy that hasn't shown any production since the All-Star break....last year. At 36 years old.

If he was wanting to play the good soldier and be a potential power threat off the bench in the playoffs, then sure, I'd offer the above mentioned ham sandwich. But reports say he wants to play every day and the Giants already have a guy they called up who is younger, faster, better defensively, and has shown production in his brief playing time while Panik is out. They are taking things extremely slow with Panik and rightfully so...and it helps to have young help filling the position well in his absence. So the NEED is not there for the Giants. Good luck getting more then a ham sandwich from some other organization. I hope you fleece someone else, just not the Giants.

well, you were confident in your opinion, but it turned out to be wrong. not trading for utley allowed your division rival (and only option for a playoff berth) to slide in and take him. he's hitting .250/.350 obp/.850 ops with them. since the break he has a .398 obp/.988 ops.

they certainly received more than a "ham sandwich" for him with sweeney and richy, and rightfully so. the giants were 2.5 back while this was happening. now they are 7.5 back and done.

i see panik is set to come back within a few days, but it's also september 7th already. i assume you were talking about tomlinson playing at 2nd. nice job and all, but 3-17.. all singles, when the giants needed help the most against the cards and dodgers recently. he's also struggling badly in september so far.

you were better off giving up an average/mediocre prospect or two for chase. it would have kept him from going to LA. playing time wasn't a problem since panik hasn't hit the field yet and there is only a few weeks left.

i hope those prospect(s) who will most likely never see the MLB light with the giants were worth keeping.

 

[Cedrique]

well, you were confident in your opinion, but it turned out to be wrong. not trading for utley allowed your division rival (and only option for a playoff berth) to slide in and take him. he's hitting .250/.350 obp/.850 ops with them. since the break he has a .398 obp/.988 ops.

they certainly received more than a "ham sandwich" for him with sweeney and richy, and rightfully so. the giants were 2.5 back while this was happening. now they are 7.5 back and done.

i see panik is set to come back within a few days, but it's also september 7th already. i assume you were talking about tomlinson playing at 2nd. nice job and all, but 3-17.. all singles, when the giants needed help the most against the cards and dodgers recently. he's also struggling badly in september so far.

you were better off giving up an average/mediocre prospect or two for chase. it would have kept him from going to LA. playing time wasn't a problem since panik hasn't hit the field yet and there is only a few weeks left.

i hope those prospect(s) who will most likely never see the MLB light with the giants were worth keeping.

OH NO YOU DI-ENT!

 

[dredinis21]

well, you were confident in your opinion, but it turned out to be wrong. not trading for utley allowed your division rival (and only option for a playoff berth) to slide in and take him. he's hitting .250/.350 obp/.850 ops with them. since the break he has a .398 obp/.988 ops.

they certainly received more than a "ham sandwich" for him with sweeney and richy, and rightfully so. the giants were 2.5 back while this was happening. now they are 7.5 back and done.

i see panik is set to come back within a few days, but it's also september 7th already. i assume you were talking about tomlinson playing at 2nd. nice job and all, but 3-17.. all singles, when the giants needed help the most against the cards and dodgers recently. he's also struggling badly in september so far.

you were better off giving up an average/mediocre prospect or two for chase. it would have kept him from going to LA. playing time wasn't a problem since panik hasn't hit the field yet and there is only a few weeks left.

i hope those prospect(s) who will most likely never see the MLB light with the giants were worth keeping.

I love how you like to talk shit in hindsight. While we are playing that game, thank you for Pence 3 Championships later. How's Tommy Joseph and Nate Sheirholtz shaking out for you guys?

Since you want to cherry pick your bullshit, let's take a bigger look, shall we? Those "prospect(s) who will most likely never see the MLB light with the Giants" are guys drafting in like the 12th round with no pedigree....like Kelby Tomlinson. Kelby Tomlinson's stat line, .306 avg/.372 OBP/.796 OPS with two walk-offs, including one against the Cards. So we may have found ourselves our future UTIL guy in our own farm system that cost us next to nothing and certainly someone who will be with our team for the next few years at a controlled price tag. Injuries did us in and there was nothing Utley or Tomlinson was going to do about that. Utley's WAR in 2015? 0.0. Kelly's WAR in 2015? 0.6. And we don't have to take on the bloated salary of a guy that wouldn't fit our team's plans past LITERALLY today, as Panik is back today.

I'm sorry that you are butthurt that I insulted your guy with my lack of interest, but as the stats show, Utley wouldn't have been an improvement on what we already had and I'm not losing sleep over the fact that the Dodgers got him. Hindsight tells us it's only a matter of time before he gets hurt again anyways.

 

[Cedrique]

I love how you like to talk shit in hindsight. While we are playing that game, thank you for Pence 3 Championships later. How's Tommy Joseph and Nate Sheirholtz shaking out for you guys?

Since you want to cherry pick your bullshit, let's take a bigger look, shall we? Those "prospect(s) who will most likely never see the MLB light with the Giants" are guys drafting in like the 12th round with no pedigree....like Kelby Tomlinson. Kelby Tomlinson's stat line, .306 avg/.372 OBP/.796 OPS with two walk-offs, including one against the Cards. So we may have found ourselves our future UTIL guy in our own farm system that cost us next to nothing and certainly someone who will be with our team for the next few years at a controlled price tag. Injuries did us in and there was nothing Utley or Tomlinson was going to do about that. Utley's WAR in 2015? 0.0. Kelly's WAR in 2015? 0.6. And we don't have to take on the bloated salary of a guy that wouldn't fit our team's plans past LITERALLY today, as Panik is back today.

I'm sorry that you are butthurt that I insulted your guy with my lack of interest, but as the stats show, Utley wouldn't have been an improvement on what we already had and I'm not losing sleep over the fact that the Dodgers got him. Hindsight tells us it's only a matter of time before he gets hurt again anyways.

Utley's WAR with the Dodgers is 0.7. And I see Tomlinson came up small again today. I can't wait to see _Phillies_ destroy you with his next post. You are so far out of your league it's not even funny

 

[dredinis21]

Utley's WAR with the Dodgers is 0.7. And I see Tomlinson came up small again today. I can't wait to see _Phillies_ destroy you with his next post. You are so far out of your league it's not even funny

Utley's WAR with the Dodgers is 0.7. And I see Tomlinson came up small again today. I can't wait to see _Phillies_ destroy you with his next post. You are so far out of your league it's not even funny

So his WAR with the Dodgers is literally .1 greater then Tomlinson so that should justify his price tag in salary and prospects? GTFO. I'm out of my league for not wanting my team to pick up an injury prone player WELL past his prime for his price tag?

 

[_phiLLies_]

I love how you like to talk shit in hindsight. While we are playing that game, thank you for Pence 3 Championships later. How's Tommy Joseph and Nate Sheirholtz shaking out for you guys?

Since you want to cherry pick your bullshit, let's take a bigger look, shall we? Those "prospect(s) who will most likely never see the MLB light with the Giants" are guys drafting in like the 12th round with no pedigree....like Kelby Tomlinson. Kelby Tomlinson's stat line, .306 avg/.372 OBP/.796 OPS with two walk-offs, including one against the Cards. So we may have found ourselves our future UTIL guy in our own farm system that cost us next to nothing and certainly someone who will be with our team for the next few years at a controlled price tag. Injuries did us in and there was nothing Utley or Tomlinson was going to do about that. Utley's WAR in 2015? 0.0. Kelly's WAR in 2015? 0.6. And we don't have to take on the bloated salary of a guy that wouldn't fit our team's plans past LITERALLY today, as Panik is back today.

I'm sorry that you are butthurt that I insulted your guy with my lack of interest, but as the stats show, Utley wouldn't have been an improvement on what we already had and I'm not losing sleep over the fact that the Dodgers got him. Hindsight tells us it's only a matter of time before he gets hurt again anyways.

really? because i mainly like to talk shit beforehand. the whole hindsight thing, people don't usually come back. but, in this case, i wasn't talking shit. i said utley can certainly ball when he's healthy, which was looking to be the case. i also said it would likely be a while before panik comes back, especially dealing with a back injury.

you insisted utley was basically a washed up player and the phillies would get nothing for him. much like you insisted he was nowhere near a match for a super struggling prospect (bust) like crick.. who is continuing his decline with 6 runs/11 walks in just 9.2 innings in august/september.

you also put your faith in some unknown rookie, who is now 5-25 in september with a .519 ops. utley has a 1.167 ops in september. know why? because he's a vet with tons of experience who knows what the hell he is doing.

none of this is hindsight. it was all discussed while utley was still with the phils.

oh, and chase has a +0.7 OWAR with the dodgers, +0.2 DWAR. to reference his overall WAR is obviously on the idiotic side since he was clearly playing hurt, thus resulting in his DL stint. even if he wasn't, and he had a +7.0 WAR with the phils, it would not matter.. as it's not the dodgers and what he's done since the trade.

i'm not "butthurt" about anything. why would i be? the phils received a nice return for chase, he's doing well and he's going back to the postseason. as a phils fan, i really can't see that working out any better.

you were wrong. pretty much all i was saying. LA provided a nice, fair deal.. because as it was said from their end.. chase is still one of the best 2nd basemen in baseball when healthy. that means you have to give up a little something to get something in return.

it would appear your organization shares your same, arrogant "ham sandwich" view. so i'll tell you what.. take that sandwich, grab some chips and sit down to watch your rivals and chase in the postseason.

 

[Omar 382]

I'm with Retro and dredinis. Utley sucks, and Panik and Tomlinson are complete studs!

 

[dredinis21]

really? because i mainly like to talk shit beforehand. the whole hindsight thing, people don't usually come back. but, in this case, i wasn't talking shit. i said utley can certainly ball when he's healthy, which was looking to be the case. i also said it would likely be a while before panik comes back, especially dealing with a back injury.

you insisted utley was basically a washed up player and the phillies would get nothing for him. much like you insisted he was nowhere near a match for a super struggling prospect (bust) like crick.. who is continuing his decline with 6 runs/11 walks in just 9.2 innings in august/september.

you also put your faith in some unknown rookie, who is now 5-25 in september with a .519 ops. utley has a 1.167 ops in september. know why? because he's a vet with tons of experience who knows what the hell he is doing.

none of this is hindsight. it was all discussed while utley was still with the phils.

oh, and chase has a +0.7 OWAR with the dodgers, +0.2 DWAR. to reference his overall WAR is obviously on the idiotic side since he was clearly playing hurt, thus resulting in his DL stint. even if he wasn't, and he had a +7.0 WAR with the phils, it would not matter.. as it's not the dodgers and what he's done since the trade.

i'm not "butthurt" about anything. why would i be? the phils received a nice return for chase, he's doing well and he's going back to the postseason. as a phils fan, i really can't see that working out any better.

you were wrong. pretty much all i was saying. LA provided a nice, fair deal.. because as it was said from their end.. chase is still one of the best 2nd basemen in baseball when healthy. that means you have to give up a little something to get something in return.

it would appear your organization shares your same, arrogant "ham sandwich" view. so i'll tell you what.. take that sandwich, grab some chips and sit down to watch your rivals and chase in the postseason.

So once again, cherry picked bullshit from you. Is this your argument strategy in general? Snow people with bullshit that doesn't matter or to take numbers from such a small sample size simply because it fits your narrative?

5-25 in September. Um, you know its September 8th, right? As in, 7 days and maybe 6 games have passed and THIS is what you are banging your pulpit about. GTFO. Utley has an OPS over 1.000 in September? Fucking fantastic! Oh, that's a 6 game sample size? Hopefully nobody notices because it fits the rest of the bullshit you spew perfectly.

Here's the thing. The Giants build from within. It's what they do. To the tune of 3 Championships in 5 years...so they have proven it works and maybe, just maybe, their arrogance is warranted. When they pick up veteran pieces, it has been to fill a void they don't have coverage with in the minors. Marlon Byrd is a perfect example. We have a rash of injuries with our OF resembling a MASH unit and our top quality OF minor leaguers are still in the low-mid minors. Giving up B prospects to get Marlon Byrd in return makes sense for our stretch run. But with Utley, we have no use for him when we have guys like Tomlinson who will be key cogs in our team in future years and give comparable production at a fraction of the cost, both in prospects as well as salary. It literally makes NO sense for the Giants.

The Dodgers have the highest payroll in baseball and have been throwing resources around hastily in an effort to buy a championship for a couple years. That hasn't worked well for them. And of course they are going to trumpet Utley as the greatest thing since sliced bread since they used resources to get him. Have you EVER heard a GM say "well, Utley wasn't what we initially wanted but in a pinch, he will have to do."??? Of course not. So using what the Dodgers say regarding Utley is laughable.

But, but, but....the Dodgers GM really likes Utley!

Utley's "production" up to this point isn't the reason the Dodgers are headed for the playoffs so don't kid yourself. Health in the division coupled with two Cy Young worthy candidates anchoring their rotation is. So i will sit at home with my ham sandwich and bask in the awesomeness of 3 championships in 5 years while los doyers try to do something they haven't done in 25 years. In the meantime, good luck with your organization. I hope your recovery is a quick one. Baseball is better when Philly is good.

 

[Retroram52]

And that was after they picked up Jimmy Rollins dredinis21. I so hope Magic Johnson opens his wallet again and takes both Ruiz and Howard. WTH? If two old over-rated and over-paid ex-Phillies are what he wants to dump money to, why not the other two?

 

[_phiLLies_]

So once again, cherry picked bullshit from you. Is this your argument strategy in general? Snow people with bullshit that doesn't matter or to take numbers from such a small sample size simply because it fits your narrative?

5-25 in September. Um, you know its September 8th, right? As in, 7 days and maybe 6 games have passed and THIS is what you are banging your pulpit about. GTFO. Utley has an OPS over 1.000 in September? Fucking fantastic! Oh, that's a 6 game sample size? Hopefully nobody notices because it fits the rest of the bullshit you spew perfectly.

Here's the thing. The Giants build from within. It's what they do. To the tune of 3 Championships in 5 years...so they have proven it works and maybe, just maybe, their arrogance is warranted. When they pick up veteran pieces, it has been to fill a void they don't have coverage with in the minors. Marlon Byrd is a perfect example. We have a rash of injuries with our OF resembling a MASH unit and our top quality OF minor leaguers are still in the low-mid minors. Giving up B prospects to get Marlon Byrd in return makes sense for our stretch run. But with Utley, we have no use for him when we have guys like Tomlinson who will be key cogs in our team in future years and give comparable production at a fraction of the cost, both in prospects as well as salary. It literally makes NO sense for the Giants.

The Dodgers have the highest payroll in baseball and have been throwing resources around hastily in an effort to buy a championship for a couple years. That hasn't worked well for them. And of course they are going to trumpet Utley as the greatest thing since sliced bread since they used resources to get him. Have you EVER heard a GM say "well, Utley wasn't what we initially wanted but in a pinch, he will have to do."??? Of course not. So using what the Dodgers say regarding Utley is laughable.

But, but, but....the Dodgers GM really likes Utley!

Utley's "production" up to this point isn't the reason the Dodgers are headed for the playoffs so don't kid yourself. Health in the division coupled with two Cy Young worthy candidates anchoring their rotation is. So i will sit at home with my ham sandwich and bask in the awesomeness of 3 championships in 5 years while los doyers try to do something they haven't done in 25 years. In the meantime, good luck with your organization. I hope your recovery is a quick one. Baseball is better when Philly is good.

talking about sample sizes. it's CHASE.. MOTHERFUCKING.. UTLEY. you're trying to compare some NOBODY, 25 year old 12th round pick who had a couple decent weeks to him. this turd could only muster a .663 ops in AA last year and a .736 ops at AAA this season, which is apparently hot for him. you lucked out big time that he did what he did for that small stretch. when utley is healthy and has no issues, he's one of the best 2nd baseman around. THESE AREN'T SAMPLE SIZES. it's simply a matter of obtaining his services at that healthy period.

as for it being september 8th? september baseball is everything. the dodgers are 6-1 while the giants are 2-5. 4 games lost in the standings in basically a week. so yeah, it's pretty "fucking fantastic" for the dodgers that chase is hitting and helping their cause.. where as your bench player, who will be a fading memory in the not too distant future, isn't doing a god damn thing. to say he's a future cog, well.. good luck with that.

the dodgers didn't need to say a thing about utley. just about every top team was interested in acquiring him. a handful were interested WHILE he was still on the DL. he held all the cards trade wise, and the phils weren't even desperate to unload him, nor was he to move.. yet they still received a decent return.

again, you were wrong. you can spin it, play it off any way you choose. you were wrong. you implied chase was dead in the water, no team would give up anything, panik would be back soon, etc. all wrong.

the effect of the giants acquiring utley and denying the dodgers is unknown. even at just 1 game both ways, it could have been a 6.5 lead instead of 8.5. you had no problem trading for byrd, and could have easily done the same for utley. regardless, YOU came here spouting bullshit about no one wanting utley, they wouldn't get anything for him and.. well, we just went over this. you were wrong. pretty much the end of the story.

 

[dredinis21]

talking about sample sizes. it's CHASE.. MOTHERFUCKING.. UTLEY. you're trying to compare some NOBODY, 25 year old 12th round pick who had a couple decent weeks to him. this turd could only muster a .663 ops in AA last year and a .736 ops at AAA this season, which is apparently hot for him. you lucked out big time that he did what he did for that small stretch. when utley is healthy and has no issues, he's one of the best 2nd baseman around. THESE AREN'T SAMPLE SIZES. it's simply a matter of obtaining his services at that healthy period.

as for it being september 8th? september baseball is everything. the dodgers are 6-1 while the giants are 2-5. 4 games lost in the standings in basically a week. so yeah, it's pretty "fucking fantastic" for the dodgers that chase is hitting and helping their cause.. where as your bench player, who will be a fading memory in the not too distant future, isn't doing a god damn thing. to say he's a future cog, well.. good luck with that.

the dodgers didn't need to say a thing about utley. just about every top team was interested in acquiring him. a handful were interested WHILE he was still on the DL. he held all the cards trade wise, and the phils weren't even desperate to unload him, nor was he to move.. yet they still received a decent return.

again, you were wrong. you can spin it, play it off any way you choose. you were wrong. you implied chase was dead in the water, no team would give up anything, panik would be back soon, etc. all wrong.

the effect of the giants acquiring utley and denying the dodgers is unknown. even at just 1 game both ways, it could have been a 6.5 lead instead of 8.5. you had no problem trading for byrd, and could have easily done the same for utley. regardless, YOU came here spouting bullshit about no one wanting utley, they wouldn't get anything for him and.. well, we just went over this. you were wrong. pretty much the end of the story.

I don't give a shit what other teams wanted to do with Utley. I gave a shit as to whether or not the Giants acquired him. And I'm happy as shit that they didn't. And unless Utley suddenly hit like Bonds while also playing Willie Mays style defense and pitching like MadBum every 5th day, there wasn't much he was going to bring to the Giants. Because the wheels were coming off in the OF as well as the rotation. Our season rested on whether Panik, Pence, Pagan, Aoki, and Crawford were going to make it back for the stretch drive. They didn't and the Dodgers are running away with it. But please don't make it seem as if the Dodgers are running away with it because of Utley's stellar .250-something avg and .7 WAR. They are being carried by Greinke and Kershaw and Utley is lucky enough to be along for the ride.

I came over here spouting off because you were of the belief that the Giants would trade one or more of their (former) blue chips for a guy with VERY limited tread on the tires at the position that wasn't needed on a very expensive contract relative to the time spent with the team. Chase motherfucking Utley hasn't been Chase motherfucking Utley for over a year. That's a fact.

 

[navamind]

I don't give a shit what other teams wanted to do with Utley. I gave a shit as to whether or not the Giants acquired him. And I'm happy as shit that they didn't. And unless Utley suddenly hit like Bonds while also playing Willie Mays style defense and pitching like MadBum every 5th day, there wasn't much he was going to bring to the Giants. Because the wheels were coming off in the OF as well as the rotation. Our season rested on whether Panik, Pence, Pagan, Aoki, and Crawford were going to make it back for the stretch drive. They didn't and the Dodgers are running away with it. But please don't make it seem as if the Dodgers are running away with it because of Utley's stellar .250-something avg and .7 WAR. They are being carried by Greinke and Kershaw and Utley is lucky enough to be along for the ride.

I came over here spouting off because you were of the belief that the Giants would trade one or more of their (former) blue chips for a guy with VERY limited tread on the tires at the position that wasn't needed on a very expensive contract relative to the time spent with the team. Chase motherfucking Utley hasn't been Chase motherfucking Utley for over a year. That's a fact.

WAR is a counting stat. .7 WAR in 15 games is actually really good.

Not that you should be citing WAR for a 15 game sample anyway.

 

[dredinis21]

WAR is a counting stat. .7 WAR in 15 games is actually really good.

Not that you should be citing WAR for a 15 game sample anyway.

Read the thread. I didn't bring up the small WAR sample size. I started with WAR for the season. That didn't fit his narrative because it didn't show his guy in the positive light he wanted so he shortened the sample size. I was comparing his WAR to Tomlinson's given those were the two "options" for the Giants.

 

[Omar 382]

WAR is a counting stat. .7 WAR in 15 games is actually really good.

Not that you should be citing WAR for a 15 game sample anyway.

Nava, I haven't seen you in a while. You should post over here more often. I would post on the MLB thread- but I'm basically on Sports SportsHoopla house arrest (which isn't actually too bad. _phillies_ and his mom come over every now and then to check in on me and she makes a delicious ziti so I'm not complaining)

 

[_phiLLies_]

I don't give a shit what other teams wanted to do with Utley. I gave a shit as to whether or not the Giants acquired him. And I'm happy as shit that they didn't. And unless Utley suddenly hit like Bonds while also playing Willie Mays style defense and pitching like MadBum every 5th day, there wasn't much he was going to bring to the Giants. Because the wheels were coming off in the OF as well as the rotation. Our season rested on whether Panik, Pence, Pagan, Aoki, and Crawford were going to make it back for the stretch drive. They didn't and the Dodgers are running away with it. But please don't make it seem as if the Dodgers are running away with it because of Utley's stellar .250-something avg and .7 WAR. They are being carried by Greinke and Kershaw and Utley is lucky enough to be along for the ride.

I came over here spouting off because you were of the belief that the Giants would trade one or more of their (former) blue chips for a guy with VERY limited tread on the tires at the position that wasn't needed on a very expensive contract relative to the time spent with the team. Chase motherfucking Utley hasn't been Chase motherfucking Utley for over a year. That's a fact.

your posts reek of shit. i said the phils should "DEMAND" kyle crick. in no way is that suggesting the phillies COULD get one or more big guns. stop wasting time with nonsense.

you immediately jumped into the conversation and started down talking any return in general expected by phils fans, then declared san fran would just be giving a bag of balls if they traded for him. stupid crap like that.

now you just flip around to different things. you don't give a shit what other teams wanted to do with utley? OK. then there was no need to explain what phillie fans should be expecting in return, how he wasn't claimed on waivers, etc. correct? ok then.

you were wrong in the sense that the phils would not be able to get much, if anything at all, by trading him. you're changing that mistake into talking about the giants roster, trying to insult the phils for trading you pence, comparing WAR for your scrub 12th rounder and just other pointless shit like the dodgers payroll.. and so on.

you have no proof or idea what utley could have done for the giants. for all you know, he could have played and homered in all 3 games against the dodgers, leading your team to 2 wins instead of getting swept.

but again, you were clearly wrong. a healthy utley can ball big time. you were told this.. and his post all-star, post injury .330 avg/.385 obp/.938 ops easily confirms it. the dodgers know this.. and they were willing to give up something of value, as small as it might be, in return to acquire his services. YOU WERE WRONG. end of story. don't waste more time by spinning random BS.

 

[Omar 382]

I don't think _phillies_ and dredinis are even arguing about Utley/Panik. I think they're just having a competition to see who can post the most paragraphs in their replies

 

[Cedrique]

at least dredins uses capital letters when he starts a sentence

 

[Retroram52]

True indeed Cedrique.