Seriously, I give up

[Redsfan1507]

Worst I've seen was the early-mid 80's...poor Mario Soto might be in the Hall of Fame if he pitched for the BRM, but he had Bench and Concepcion's finale, Driessens decline, Nick Esasky, Paul Householder, Gary Redus, Dave Collins and those were the "good" ones...triple digit loser or two. Miserable.

 

[redlegs@hokies]

That sounds rough. Glad that was before my time I suppose

 

[eburg5000]

Here we are in the last week of July. I was just wondering, do you think the Reds will be buyers or sellers in the coming days. Or do you think they will just hold.
I think they will just hold on to what they have, mainly because I'm not sure we have much to offer

 

[eburg5000]

saying not much to offer, meaning I wouldn't want to see the starting pitching traded

 

[redsfan03]

I think they'll hold. They've never really been sellers under Jocketty, so I don't think they'll sell now even though it's apparent that this team won't win the NL Central

 

[eburg5000]

Might be time to start thinking about next year. Some where, somehow, the Reds need to find a "consistent" left fielder. I'm up in the air about Cozart, I like his fielding and maybe if everyone else was hitting, we wouldn't notice his lack of hitting. On the other hand it is not easy to find a hitting SS these days

 

[Redsfan1507]

Lots mouth morons stoking trading Chapman AND Cueto...because they could get most for them...and they're going to cost a lot to keep...

...to those people, I ask would the Reds be better with another hitter, a role player and 2 minor leaguers without their best SP and closer ? And possibly more important- any BIG NAME hitter or hitters they "could" get for JC & AC, would also cost a lot to keep...and not having much Reds legacy, might just humor to free agency at first opportunity anyway.

I think the Reds made only 2 major errors this year- they paid Ludwick to be something he isn't ( and wasn't often in the past), and they didnt use Chapman as a SP, choosing to follow the belief of a manager they fired 3 seasons too late, that Chapman wouldn't improve a rotation containing Tony Cingrani, or even Mike Leake, even after Broxton was paid (and proved worthy ) to close. Both decisions border on obvious bad vision.

I can't say Votto or Bruce or Bailey or even Phillips were mistakes. Fans would have howled if the Reds hadnt signed them long term, and they were (and still are) among the core few players most would say are best suited to build around. Physical injuries can't be predicted, and whatever ails Bruce and Votto cant be compensated for by others on the team, or traded for considering what they would have to lose to get that. They have gotten the improved performances they hoped for in Mesoraco, Frazier, Hamilton, and a lot more than they hoped for in Simon AND Billy Hamilton. Cozart was NEVER projected as a hitter, but hes among the top 3 NL SS defensively. Pena and Schumaker were great bench additions- problem is, they're playing every day from necessity.

This team is a pretender without Jay Bruce hitting a 30 plus HR pace and Joey Votto at .300/20 and BP playing gold D and chipping in on offense, AND everyone else doing their job.

I don't think the Reds should sell, and I don't think they can buy. I think they need to reassess buying out Ludwick for a better and/or cheaper player, sign Cueto, and put Chapman in the 2015 rotation. If that leaves you with a Simon or Leake or Cingrani as middle or long relievers, uh...good. Better than what we've seen. They gotta find Bruce's swing, and whatever Joey Votto lost that keeps him doing a Cozart impression at the plate when he does decide to play.

That's all. Unfortunately, it doesn't help much this year.

 

[JohnU]

Trading away players to get players is NOT going to happen.
Consider this a year ago: Jocketty said that the people coming off the DL were as good as anybody he could get in a deadline trade. Arguably, IN THE REAR VIEW MIRROR, Marlon Byrd was better than Ludwick. People who cling to that forget that Byrd had a history of PEDs use and that Ludwick had come off a pretty good 2012.
Neither here nor there.
Again, as the "mouth morons" are inclined to put it,
1. The reason the Reds are bad is because Bailey got a good contract. Really? What in FUCK does Bailey's contract have to do with it? Contract or not, he'd still be with the Reds, unless they traded him. Then, we'd have Cingrani in the rotation. Some of these dick-brains still think Cingrani ought to replace Bailey -- never mind TC didn't get anybody out in his last 15 starts and is on the DL currently. Never mind. Let's blame it all on Bailey.
2. Let's deal a starting pitcher for a left fielder. That always snaps my rope. We're one more Simon disaster away from David Holmberg anyhow, who's ahead of Cingrani because he's not injured.
3. And the annual "bring up the kids because they can't do worse." VFW barstool logic is always funny. One would think after 80 years of it, we'd finally stop with that one.

So to the point: This team is hurt. Two important hitters (one of them maybe the best hitter in the NL) are out, probably for the rest of the real season.

What would help this team by trading for rentals, unloading real players, just so they can be traded or lost to FA next spring?

As if anybody is interested in helping the Reds.

Real life: A lot of teams are still kind of in contention for a wild card -- THE REDS INCLUDED. Unloading talent now is what we all bitch about every year when the Yanks scrape up the leavings.
Either we are OK with that or we are not OK with that.

Plus, to fix this lineup, Walt needs to find at least one infielder, maybe two, at least one hitter, maybe three, another 1B, probably a starter, perhaps a reliever (why?) ...

So where do we start?

Answer: We don't. Suck it up. A lot of seasons end this way.
There is no shame in that and trying to appease the idiot fans is not going to help.

You can't trade Joey Votto just because he's injured.
Really, you can't.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I remember many of the same people whining the Reds were to cheap to sign (fill in the blank), wanting to run them out of town a few years later...Harang, Arroyo...if Choo had gotten Baileys money, they would have eaten the Reds alive too...Votto, Phillips, Bruce, Bailey, etc. probably can't escape that mentality either.

 

[JohnU]

Whatever, the whine about Bailey's contract is a separate discussion from the team's performance. Of course, the VFW barstool mentality says that Votto, BP, Bruce, Bailey all have their money now, so they aren't putting any effort into it. This from people who probably never even played a competitive game of bar darts.

Bailey's contract is not about the team and I really get weary of having to wade through all that.
I tend to come off a bit harsh at times on ignorant posters, but to be honest, you only need to be about a 6th-grade dropout to be smarter than some of the morons I've seen post about this team all summer.
The Hoop is about the only place that includes logical thought.
I read yesterday where some ying-ding said that if the Reds go 14-9 in their next 23, they will be where they were before the break -- therefore in contention for a wild card. Never mind they lost 3 in a row to the Brewers, the one team they had to sweep. You just can't make this stuff up.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I don't really believe the idea that after the big payday, players just don't care. For whatever reason, the big payday it seems it is usually followed by decline though. I never really bought into the idea that after the big contract playets trying to do too much...they've been aroubd the pressure block plenty to earn the deal, IMO. I've often thought that players might only juice until they cash in, then go back to whatever level "natural" was, though. Much of the issue could just be the normal age they get that contract- somewhere between 28-32 usually, and IMO, if you've never had a major injury or mechanical malfunction before then, every year after is borrowed time. I think any contract that pays a guy top dollar after age 35 is a guaranteed disappointment sooner than later. Unfortunately, I think teams believe they have to sign done of those to win at the gate first.

 

[eburg5000]

If I could find someone who would take my bet. I would bet that the Reds will have a no hitter pitched against them in the next two weeks. Maybe sooner

 

[JohnU]

Watched that clown Steve Smith flag down another out tonight on a bloop single 25 feet back of 2nd base. Does this kind of shit actually contribute to failure?

These guys are dead ducks at the plate, game after game. If I am Pena I don't give Smith anything but the finger.

 

[JohnU]

This team is unwatchable.
I have never seen such stupid baserunning and stupid pitch selection.

 

[JohnU]

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, somebody dug the basement a little deeper.

 

[eburg5000]

Jay Bruce out, can't say that is much of a lose right now

 

[Redsfan1507]

Jay Bruce's bat died after a long illness. There is of course, the possibility of reincarnation. Maybe he'll return with Mickey Mantle's bat. Or Paul Householders. In hoping Mr.Milk's karma is deserving of the former. It also might not hurt if someone besides Ludwick making more than $8 Mil/ yr. could find their bat into the lineup with Bruce...Mesoraco, in his 2nd full season in MLB stated something done others might not quite get..."we're being paid to do a job, and we're just not doing it"...so true. IMO, the hitters being paid the most to do the most, have been largely absent this year though...and although the rest are bring paid, their relative value does have a bearing on what they are expected to do...it's why we fans are so pleased with Hamilton, Frazier and Simon...so far, the biggest contracts have hurt the team the most-Votto, Bailey, Bruce, Phillips...Ludwick wasn't a value either. Broxton and Chapman and Cueto have earned their middling money. You could say the same for Cozart, Pena, Santiago and even Heisey at the relative chump change they're paid...but as impact players ? I don't even think Hoover qualifies as minimum salary value, and can't see how Hannahan will either.

Whatever 3b coaching pool the Reds have been drawing from needs to be drained and filled in with manure. Mushrooms might sprout there, which would be an improvement over the intelligence of what we've seen lately.

This team is just under-armed without the Missing Millionaires. We may see Leake at 2b when he isnt pitching at this pace- at least he might put down a bunt after a leadoff double or get an occasional hit. They could improve the 3b coaching by letting silent Mr. Redlegs stand down there and waive at kids in the first row. They need to stop playing musical positions, and let the 1st basemen play 1b, keep Frazier at 3b, and at least when they didnt hit, they don't also make 2 errors.

I betcha Dusty has worn out his Price pincushion if such voodoo could bring all this on...maybe they need to retire Dusty's number or give him a front office job or invite Bartman to a bad luck / pointless blame intervention. The Reds aren't victims, they are just about 3 everyday players from being competitive. Phillips is injured. Bruce isn't, and no one really knows about Votto. Until those questions aren't questions, this team has no answers.

 

[redlegs@hokies]

I'll take a win anyway the reds can get it. Nice job by Leake tonight.

 

[eburg5000]

The good news is, the offense scored 4 runs and had 11 hits. The most sense the All Star break. The bad news is the D- backs scored 5 runs, Simon took the lose because he gave up 2 runs while the bullpen through it away.


first series win at GAP for the D-backs sense 2011, first series win on the road for them, sense mid June.

 

[JohnU]

Latest "what the hell does this mean" comment....
The logic was that the Reds need to get rid of Ludwick to find somebody who can hit better.
So, as the logic followed, we should trade Ludwick to somebody who needs an impact bat in left field.
I suppose that an impact bat on the way out is not as important as getting an impact bat on the way in.
We could always trade Ludwick for an impact bat because you know, teams are looking for an impact bat.