politics thread

[j_y19]

A right leaner that pines for what "Republican used to mean" and that is not a Trump following lemming?? Hey, we should get along great. I'm a recovering Republican. Gave up on the party awhile back. Became a Libertarian, but like a lot of what Trump has done. But, like you, I am not a lemming, either. If he ends up NOT draining the swamp and ends up just being a different flavor of an establishment schill, then I will turn against him and vote for someone else.


Personally, I believe a wall or steel slat barrier will work and believe it would be our best use of that 5.7 billion dollars. But I can not prove what the future will bring.

That's right, what Republican used to mean. Small Federal Government. Fiscal responsibility. Self determination. States rights. You know, those things this country was founded on. But the current direction of the party is anything but that.

Trump is no republican. Nor is he a democrat. He is a Trumpist. First and foremost. He is all about him. He is not a racist, however. He believes everyone is beneath him, no matter what your ethnic, religious, or socioeconomic situation is. I didn't give up on the Republican party, they gave up on me. And most of us that consider ourselves conservatives in any form or fashion. This who budget fight has nothing to do with funding a wall, but its a show of power between Trump and Pelosi/Schumer. Now I will say this, Trump will win this fight. Because he will never back down. Damn the country, he isn't about to give in. The democrats will eventually cave.

 

[Sharkinva]

This country isn’t about mob rule and never has been. It is about individual freedom. Our opinion is supported by the Constitution, and it is very valid. We aren’t talking world view...we are talking national view.

The system is designed to work for all citizens...not every person. It is funny, liberals have been yelling the loudest since Vietnam.

The last time conservatives yelled the loudest, the Civil Rights Act was passed.

The problem is, individual freedom generally ends where those in charge get uncomfortable. Which is where you start making laws to live life the way YOU assume everyone else should.

Cases in point. A Gay person should not have to sue for the right to marry who they want, and be able to leave their possessions to the person they chose to be with.

You are fine with a woman having ALMOST equal rights, well until it comes to her own reproduction. Then it requires a man (usually white christian) to tell her that she in fact has no choice.

 

[j_y19]

Yes I can answer it definitively. The 6 billion dollars allows every other facet of border security to work more efficiently and effectively. It is also a psychological barrier that removes all doubt of an open border.

That is an opinion, not a definitive answer.

 

[Sharkinva]

That's right, what Republican used to mean. Small Federal Government. Fiscal responsibility. Self determination. States rights. You know, those things this country was founded on. But the current direction of the party is anything but that.

Trump is no republican. Nor is he a democrat. He is a Trumpist. First and foremost. He is all about him. He is not a racist, however. He believes everyone is beneath him, no matter what your ethnic, religious, or socioeconomic situation is. I didn't give up on the Republican party, they gave up on me. And most of us that consider ourselves conservatives in any form or fashion. This who budget fight has nothing to do with funding a wall, but its a show of power between Trump and Pelosi/Schumer. Now I will say this, Trump will win this fight. Because he will never back down. Damn the country, he isn't about to give in. The democrats will eventually cave.

And that will do more damage to the country than anyone wants to admit. Because while Trump may or may not be a racist, some of his advisors are. And if he gets his way on this wall, they will advise him to push for more. And he likely will. I used to not care about the wall either way because I know that where it originally comes from is a place I expected most Americans didnt want to go back to. Now, I think all it would do is embolden the real racists, and drive some that dont consider themselves racist close to the line of becoming just that. Because there is no realistic way of deporting 10-20 million people without repeating some dark chapters in human history.

 

[Stymietee]

Oh come on, don't be ridiculous. OF COURSE humans will still be needed to keep watch of the border whether there is a wall or not. Difference being a wall makes it harder for people to get across the border and it takes more time, giving the border patrol more time to catch them. It also discourages a lot of people that would otherwise make an effort.

Wow, would you please make up your mind? Now it (the wall) makes it harder, originally it was that it stopped them. Choose one, let me prove you wrong then we can move on to something else. Perhaps that blown call in yesterday's game?

 

[Stymietee]

Name me a country on the planet that doesn't have borders and immigration policies???

You open borders people show yourselves to be SO NAIVE

Name me a country that once believed in the power of its citizens, created innovative things from imagination, became the great example for all of the world to envy and follow. Identified an issue then sought to correct it using advancements in technology, engineering and science instead of relying upon an idea that was tried and failed over 2300 years ago in China. Your move!

BTW: open borders, doesn't mean what you say they are and that's provable too. Talk about NAIVE, whew!

 

[Stymietee]

Where do I draw the line? You wouldn't like where I drew the line.

I mean, I'm a libertarian, or used to be until recently, so I am, or used to be in favor of letting people be who/what ever they want to be, as long as that doesn't infringe on the rights of others. But...


but unfortunately, Leftists have shown that they will not be satisfied until their Fascist desires for total control of everyone is realized, so the only remaining option is separation.

Honestly, I wouldn't care where you would draw that line, seeing that it's a hypothetical question, but nice dodge. You know damned well that just as soon as YOU draw your line some other jackass would move the line to include another group of people. Just for kicks, let's us all know, how you would draw a line that hurts my feelings!

Libertarians are just Republicans dressed as folks who pretend not to give a fuck. That is until their "free will" doctrine is intercepted by the "United" part of the name of this place.

 

[Sharkinva]

You may be right, and if so, the laws need to be changed. So why isn't Pelosi and Congress working on doing just that? Why haven't they produced any bills to amend the laws? Do you think she is really interested in changing policy or does the current policy work toward her benefit?

I think both sides are locked in a stale mate on Immigration. I mean if they passed laws to make legal immigration faster and less cumbersome, you would have right wingers flip their shit and say America is going to become a 3rd world country.

And you have some hard liners on the right that will settle for nothing less than closing all immigration from south of the border (well except the hot women).

The current system works for no one except the lawyers.

And honestly even if they build the wall, I think it will just divide the country more. Because shit sounds sweet right until my neighbor that dont like Mexicans calls and claims my kids are illegal... then we go off the rails. And we both know it would come to that at some point.

 

[Stymietee]

Your heart should bleed for our country and the media who don’t care about getting things correct before they smear much like they did to Rueben Foster

I'm liking that football related reference, nice move!

 

[Sharkinva]

Your heart should bleed for our country and the media who don’t care about getting things correct before they smear much like they did to Rueben Foster

And it would. Except that this kid getting judged based on appearance is an exception. Foster was more along the lines of the rule. Reality is, if that had been a white guy exercising his first amendment right, and 30 black kids started chanting... in those situations shit usually goes sideways and we both know it.

 

[Stymietee]

What I am pissed about us the illegal asshole coming to my country telling my country what it should or shouldn’t do and demanding charity when they should confront their govt about the issues with there own country . Then you have people bitching about those said govts and American intervention when in fact those govts would be different if liberals didn’t pull the plug

Liberal?? You keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means.

 

[gkekoa]

The problem is, individual freedom generally ends where those in charge get uncomfortable. Which is where you start making laws to live life the way YOU assume everyone else should.

Cases in point. A Gay person should not have to sue for the right to marry who they want, and be able to leave their possessions to the person they chose to be with.

You are fine with a woman having ALMOST equal rights, well until it comes to her own reproduction. Then it requires a man (usually white christian) to tell her that she in fact has no choice.

Marriage, since the beginning of time, meant the union of a man and woman. They have always been legally allowed to leave their possessions to anybody they want. It is called a will. That being said, I understand what you are saying; however, laws are created for the betterment of society. In no way is marriage a right. Can you show me where it is written in the US constitution as a protected right? Nope. You sure as hell cannot. So, where should it fall if it is not an enumerated power of the federal government or prohibited the state? That is correct, it should fall to the state.

Wrong. A woman has the right to reproduce or not reproduce. Nobody is forcing a gun to her head and saying have a baby. Nobody is forcing her to not have sex either. An obvious outcome of sex is the possibility of pregnancy. The baby has a RIGHT to live according our founding document where it says life is an inalienable right. It also says we are endowed by our Creator, which means themoment of creation would be life. Now according to the fourth amendment of the US Constitution, no person will be denied the right to life without due process of law.

As for your first statement on creation of laws to live the same way, murder and robbery are illegal because we agree they are good for society. We can also agree that having a specific side of the road to drive on is OK, because that is good for society.

 

[gkekoa]

That is an opinion, not a definitive answer.

Actually, it is a definitive answer.

You agree that a fence makes the Secret Service job easier, thus more effective, and more efficient. There is literally no difference in the two.

It is most definitely a psychological barrier as well. If you have to climb a 30’ fence, there is a distinct chance you turn around.

 

[gkekoa]

And that will do more damage to the country than anyone wants to admit. Because while Trump may or may not be a racist, some of his advisors are. And if he gets his way on this wall, they will advise him to push for more. And he likely will. I used to not care about the wall either way because I know that where it originally comes from is a place I expected most Americans didnt want to go back to. Now, I think all it would do is embolden the real racists, and drive some that dont consider themselves racist close to the line of becoming just that. Because there is no realistic way of deporting 10-20 million people without repeating some dark chapters in human history.

There is an easy way to deport 20 million people. It is called E-verify.

 

[Sharkinva]

There is an easy way to deport 20 million people. It is called E-verify.

YOu win... lets do this

Deporting 11 Million People Could Cost $400-600 Billion, Study Finds - The Atlantic


The answer, researchers found, is quite a lot, both to taxpayers and the economy more broadly. Removing all 11.2 million undocumented immigrants, both forcibly and through Mitt Romney's infamous "self-deportation" policy, would take about 20 years and cost the government between $400 billion and $600 billion. The impact on the economy would be even larger, according to the study: Real GDP would drop by nearly $1.6 trillion and the policy would shave 5.7 percent off economic growth. Researchers Laura Collins and Ben Gitis also write that their estimates are conservative, since they do not include, for example, the cost of constructing new courts, prisons, and other buildings that might be needed to process and detain millions of immigrants.

 

[j_y19]

YOu win... lets do this

Deporting 11 Million People Could Cost $400-600 Billion, Study Finds - The Atlantic


The answer, researchers found, is quite a lot, both to taxpayers and the economy more broadly. Removing all 11.2 million undocumented immigrants, both forcibly and through Mitt Romney's infamous "self-deportation" policy, would take about 20 years and cost the government between $400 billion and $600 billion. The impact on the economy would be even larger, according to the study: Real GDP would drop by nearly $1.6 trillion and the policy would shave 5.7 percent off economic growth. Researchers Laura Collins and Ben Gitis also write that their estimates are conservative, since they do not include, for example, the cost of constructing new courts, prisons, and other buildings that might be needed to process and detain millions of immigrants.

The impact on the economy would be devastating. Take 10-15M consumers out of the economy over night and see what happens. It won't be good. And everyone knows this which is why this talk of mass deportations is either idle talk to stoke the base or the dreams of idiots.

 

[Stymietee]

If people who were born here break the law, the law should be followed.

Freedom of religion

Boy fuckers...if you mean pedophiles, yes death penalty.

Greed isn’t illegal.

Not really...your point is full of false equivalencies and simply put...nobody is taking you seriously with your idiocy in these statements.

The statement was intended to be simplistic, maybe a bit humorous, but the point stands which you still want to dodge. Where do you draw that line? BTW: I do this because I understand the value in dumbing down based on the company. See what you did in response? You literally picked at the redundancy and totally avoided the question. I know why, now let's see if you're brave enough to answer it!

 

[Sharkinva]

The impact on the economy would be devastating. Take 10-15M consumers out of the economy over night and see what happens. It won't be good. And everyone knows this which is why this talk of mass deportations is either idle talk to stoke the base or the dreams of idiots.

Nah dude... lets do it. Because there wont be any accidental mistaken deportations. No one will be accused of being an illegal by their neighbor who just dont like non-American looking people. Because that never happens. Economy be damned. We are America, we will recover and be stronger for it.

 

[Stymietee]

This country has been in existence for 240 years. There hasn’t been a draft in 50 years. I am with you on mandatory service.

Who is talking around the point? I am explaining it to you. I am all for armed military forces on the southern border and shooting anybody who crosses illegally. Let’s do it. I am all for invading Mexico and Columbia and destroying the cartels...let’s do it.

So, no wall? Good for you to have finally, come around! BTW: it's so nice of you to explain that which I outlined, have alluded to in several posts, and concluded with a question that required an answer, not an explanation. Thank you so much.

 

[skinsdad62]

give me the wall e verify and end chin migration and i'll grant amnesty to everyone here , with no citizenship until 2nd generation