politics thread

[j_y19]

Problems are rarely solved "forever", much less such a complicated problem/issue such as immigration.


Of course a wall, all by itself won't "solve" the problem. But if it reduces the problem significantly, isn't that worth a measly 5 billion?


3000+ murders, in Texas ALONE, since 2000. If a wall reduced the # of murders committed by illegal immigrants by 33%, so OVER ONE THOUSAND SAVED LIVES, wouldn't that be worth 5 billion???

5,000,000,000 divided by 1000 = 5 million. 5 mil divided by the # of taxpayers in America means what? 10 cents in taxes PER TAX PAYER, for every life saved? That would be if there were only 50 million taxpayers.


And hey, murdering Texans is not the only crime illegal immigrants commit.

And here is why we have a debt load that will eventually choke us. Its just a measly $5B? How about showing some real leadership and address the real threat to this country? The national debt.

 

[Toadman005]

The real problem remains that while we pretend to have equality, its a sham. And those currently in power want no parts of real equality. People fear mob rule, but only when they see the majority of the mob does not agree with their world view. We say everyone has the same rights and responsibilities, but then want to enact laws that say if you dont think like me.. your opinion is invalid. Our system is not designed to work for everyone, but for those that either make the most money, or can yell the loudest at any given time. And no one listens once they get into power unless they are hearing what they want to hear.

You are well indoctrinated. Pity.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

And don't peg me before you know me. I did vote for Trump and my leanings are more Republican (or what Republican used to mean). But I'm also not a lemming that follows Trump just because he has an R after his name.

Fences do work. They can also be beat, as we saw just this week. So will a wall work? for a period and to some extent, sure. But to what extent and can we use that almost now $6B more effectively. Can you definitively answer that question?

A right leaner that pines for what "Republican used to mean" and that is not a Trump following lemming?? Hey, we should get along great. I'm a recovering Republican. Gave up on the party awhile back. Became a Libertarian, but like a lot of what Trump has done. But, like you, I am not a lemming, either. If he ends up NOT draining the swamp and ends up just being a different flavor of an establishment schill, then I will turn against him and vote for someone else.


Personally, I believe a wall or steel slat barrier will work and believe it would be our best use of that 5.7 billion dollars. But I can not prove what the future will bring.

 

[skinsdad62]

Guess they will learn what its like to be accused of something based on nothing more than appearance. My heart bleeds for them.

Your heart should bleed for our country and the media who don’t care about getting things correct before they smear much like they did to Rueben Foster

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Israel's wall works because it is backed by men with guns stationed every 50-100 yards. I know, I have been there.

Israel is also an occupation state that did not exist as a country before America proclaimed it should be a country. Before that, it was a refugee camp. Palestine was kind enough to take Jewish refugees in during WWII, and for their generosity, America declared that a part of their country now belongs to the Jews.

But other than that.. it works awesome.

The British were the ones behind the creation of the Jewish State, AND, the original plan was for there to also be a Palestinian state. But other Arab countries convinced the Palestinians to refuse that offer. They told the Palestinians not to worry, that they would drive the Jews into the sea. But the Arabs lost the war and as a result Israel garnered the whole allotment of land.

I'm not a big fan of Israel, but I don't hate them, either. That whole situation is a big mess. I am not jealous of those in charge of trying to figure that situation out.



As for it working because they have men with guns stationed every 50-100 yards? Well, that's what you need when the people on the other side of the fence want to kill them.


That's not the situation on the Mexican border. At least not now.

 

[gkekoa]

I'll take a swing. Because people HAVE tried to kill Presidents.
People HAVE sent bombs to democratic representatives.

As for the fence around the back yard, mainly its there to keep my dogs in, not so much my neighbors out.

Its false equivalence to assume that you need to stop or limit most immigrants because some may have bad intent. And it shows hypocrisy to say that we should be afraid every immigrant is a potential threat, but most gun owners are not.

But walls don’t work you say...so what is the point? Have Americans been killed by illegals?

Mainly?

I never said it was for their bad intent. It is partly for the bad intent of a few.

Who said we fear illegals? I fear neither the illegal nor the gun owner. The illegal has no right to be hear, while the gun owner has every right to own said gun.

 

[skinsdad62]

I was born here. I do have a job. And Trump isnt my main issue. The asshole down the street that has a penchant for telling my kids they should go back to Mexico is my issue. Trump is a symptom of the real problem.

And for te record, neither I or my Kids are of "Mexican" heritage.

What I am pissed about us the illegal asshole coming to my country telling my country what it should or shouldn’t do and demanding charity when they should confront their govt about the issues with there own country . Then you have people bitching about those said govts and American intervention when in fact those govts would be different if liberals didn’t pull the plug

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

And here is why we have a debt load that will eventually choke us. Its just a measly $5B? How about showing some real leadership and address the real threat to this country? The national debt.

I've seen videos online that hint Trump is going to do exactly that. But you realize that will require the dismantling of the Federal Reserve, right? And such an action will piss off a lot of UBER RICH international bankers.

 

[gkekoa]

Now this is interesting, so let me ask, where is the line drawn? Are people who were born here who terrorize because it was bred into them as well, be cut out? How about those who practice a religion yet don't believe that there's life beyond this planet yet their God is? Maybe the boy fuckers should also be dismissed and the greedy, yeah, let's get rid of the greedy too! Then the snappy dressers, the poorly dressed and the short, no tall, no ugly and short, wait, I meant the ugly and tall. Fat people they're lazy, oh and thin people, they're selfish because they don't eat enough thereby saving the planet. Democrats, they're stupid, and Republicans because they're dumb. By now I hope that the point is made, there's no line that you nor anyone else could possibly draw without destroying this country by category.

If people who were born here break the law, the law should be followed.

Freedom of religion

Boy fuckers...if you mean pedophiles, yes death penalty.

Greed isn’t illegal.

Not really...your point is full of false equivalencies and simply put...nobody is taking you seriously with your idiocy in these statements.

 

[gkekoa]

Americans have done the same and WORSE. IM more likely to be shot, harmed or otherwise mistreated by a good old American's than I am by these illegals. To me the greatest threat is not at the border, its five miles down the road, speaks english and would just as soon I wasnt here anymore than those illegals.

Yes they have...and the law punishes them. They have a legal right to be here and are protected by the Constitution until they break the law.

Maybe they are a bigger threat to you...just not your way of life.

 

[gkekoa]

I was born here. I do have a job. And Trump isnt my main issue. The asshole down the street that has a penchant for telling my kids they should go back to Mexico is my issue. Trump is a symptom of the real problem.

And for te record, neither I or my Kids are of "Mexican" heritage.

Tell them to go back to hell. Who cares what the ignorant say? Apparently you are easily triggered by those people. What does that say about you?

 

[skinsdad62]

The real problem remains that while we pretend to have equality, its a sham. And those currently in power want no parts of real equality. People fear mob rule, but only when they see the majority of the mob does not agree with their world view. We say everyone has the same rights and responsibilities, but then want to enact laws that say if you dont think like me.. your opinion is invalid. Our system is not designed to work for everyone, but for those that either make the most money, or can yell the loudest at any given time. And no one listens once they get into power unless they are hearing what they want to hear.

Name a system better . Mob rule is klan style rule . We have a republic . Minorities. Have progressed through time to achieve positions of power . Is it perfect ? No but govts role is to provide equal opportunity not equal outcomes which most have forgotten

 

[gkekoa]

Guess they will learn what its like to be accused of something based on nothing more than appearance. My heart bleeds for them.

No your heart doesn’t. They were also not accused based on appearance. They were accused simply because there is a movement to make white men people look bad.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Trust me. If there weren't Secret Service every 15 ft or so, that wall around any of those places would not work.

Well, NOTHING would stop John Wick, right? lol

My point? Walls simply make it HARDER to get from point A(on one side of the fence) to point B(on the other side of the fence). And same thing can be said about cameras. They often only help police catch the criminals AFTER they commit their crime. Locks are the same, they only make it HARDER for a criminal to get into a building. Same with dogs, alarms, etc..

Oh, and owners owning guns.

Nothing will work 100%. But 95% is much better than 65% or 35% or 0%.

 

[gkekoa]

Hell no! until more recent times there was a draft, and for a whole lot of folks who sit behind their keyboards and pretend to be brave, I wish that they would not only bring it back, but make military service mandatory.

BTW: nice attempt to talk around the point, that being, these "shithole countries are indeed in our backyard. According to a lot of misguided people they present a threat to our nation by crossing the southern border illegally. Why aren't the conditions that exist in our backyard considered a direct threat to our nation and then something done about it. Not some dumb assed wall either, because that doesn't solve the problem.

This country has been in existence for 240 years. There hasn’t been a draft in 50 years. I am with you on mandatory service.

Who is talking around the point? I am explaining it to you. I am all for armed military forces on the southern border and shooting anybody who crosses illegally. Let’s do it. I am all for invading Mexico and Columbia and destroying the cartels...let’s do it.

 

[gkekoa]

The real problem remains that while we pretend to have equality, its a sham. And those currently in power want no parts of real equality. People fear mob rule, but only when they see the majority of the mob does not agree with their world view. We say everyone has the same rights and responsibilities, but then want to enact laws that say if you dont think like me.. your opinion is invalid. Our system is not designed to work for everyone, but for those that either make the most money, or can yell the loudest at any given time. And no one listens once they get into power unless they are hearing what they want to hear.

This country isn’t about mob rule and never has been. It is about individual freedom. Our opinion is supported by the Constitution, and it is very valid. We aren’t talking world view...we are talking national view.

The system is designed to work for all citizens...not every person. It is funny, liberals have been yelling the loudest since Vietnam.

The last time conservatives yelled the loudest, the Civil Rights Act was passed.

 

[gkekoa]

And don't peg me before you know me. I did vote for Trump and my leanings are more Republican (or what Republican used to mean). But I'm also not a lemming that follows Trump just because he has an R after his name.

Fences do work. They can also be beat, as we saw just this week. So will a wall work? for a period and to some extent, sure. But to what extent and can we use that almost now $6B more effectively. Can you definitively answer that question?

Yes I can answer it definitively. The 6 billion dollars allows every other facet of border security to work more efficiently and effectively. It is also a psychological barrier that removes all doubt of an open border.

 

[gkekoa]

Trust me. If there weren't Secret Service every 15 ft or so, that wall around any of those places would not work.

Still, why does the wall exist? Think of secret service as border patrol...we just need the actual barrier to make their jobs easier, more effective, and more efficient.

 

[gkekoa]

And here is why we have a debt load that will eventually choke us. Its just a measly $5B? How about showing some real leadership and address the real threat to this country? The national debt.

I would love to attack the national debt but nobody else will. Let’s cut all foreign aid to save 50 billion. If you want military assistance, pay for it...we can make money by defending people. Let’s cut military spending to say 1 trillion and save 500 billion. We save a billion by cutting the arts and PBS. Let’s reduce welfare spending to 500 billion, sacing 250 billion.

The low ball cost of illegal immigration is over 50 billion annually.

Dude...I am in.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

I would love to attack the national debt but nobody else will. Let’s cut all foreign aid to save 50 billion. If you want military assistance, pay for it...we can make money by defending people. Let’s cut military spending to say 1 trillion and save 500 billion. We save a billion by cutting the arts and PBS. Let’s reduce welfare spending to 500 billion, sacing 250 billion.

The low ball cost of illegal immigration is over 50 billion annually.

Dude...I am in.

Some good ideas!!