The Browns should take Chubb and Barkley

[eaglesnut]

Impossible if the Giants take Barkley (or Chubb).

Mad Dog on sirius radio said the same. Having Taylor gives the Browns a few years and these players are too great to pass on.

Problem...

If they (Chubb and Barkley) are too good, why would the Giants pass on them? Why would the Bills trade a fortune to move up for a QB when they had the same Taylor that should convince the Browns not to take a QB? It makes no sense.

I think they take Chubb at 1. I highly doubt the Giants pass on Barkley. Baker to the Jets seems likely, leaving Allen/Darnold at 4.

Because the Bills decided to give up on Taylor before the year even started. Foolishly and comically premature as the Peterman start showed us.

Now let's see if they build on their playoff success or waste their elite back's remaining years. Sorry, shady.

 

[TKOSpikes]

Because the Bills decided to give up on Taylor before the year even started. Foolishly and comically premature as the Peterman start showed us.

Now let's see if they build on their playoff success or waste their elite back's remaining years. Sorry, shady.

Poor Shady. O line has been dissolved. New QB, OC. I'm not banking on much. If we could sell him in draft, we should.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I'd imagine thats why the Bills got rid of Taylor. They had Shady and probably figured their offense should've been doing more.

BUF imo, never trusted Taylor with the keys to the OFC. If you're afraid of your QB failing, you typically will call a conservative game plan which imo make an average QB look worse than they really are.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I'm all for improving your QB situation, I just don't think any of these guys come in and are better than Taylor year 2 or 2 so the scenarios are you draft a QB he sits for a few years and you essentially waste 2 years of a top 5 pick or you play the young guy anyway and get yourself a new coacjobg staff yet again after next year . And those are middle outcomes, maybe even high side. Worst case you miss and put yourself back another 5 years. For every Wentz there's 3 guys who are Taylor level or far worse so you really have about a 25% chance of getting it right if you go QB

The issue I see is you don't really know about a QB, until he's in your system...nobody I talked with expected Wentz to be a stud out the gate.

 

[rmilia1]

Impossible if the Giants take Barkley (or Chubb).

Mad Dog on sirius radio said the same. Having Taylor gives the Browns a few years and these players are too great to pass on.

Problem...

If they (Chubb and Barkley) are too good, why would the Giants pass on them? Why would the Bills trade a fortune to move up for a QB when they had the same Taylor that should convince the Browns not to take a QB? It makes no sense.

I think they take Chubb at 1. I highly doubt the Giants pass on Barkley. Baker to the Jets seems likely, leaving Allen/Darnold at 4.

I think there's a great shot the giants take Barkley which is why you take him first. I don't see them taking Chubb though.

 

[rmilia1]

The issue I see is you don't really know about a QB, until he's in your system...nobody I talked with expected Wentz to be a stud out the gate.

I said this,earlier but you probably didn't see if. The Browns get beat up not only because they didn't take Wentz but also because they trades back and drafted a guy no one remembers unless you're a Browns fan. I'm not advocating that. I'm advocating taking the best player at tgat spit. If the Browns had taken Bosa or Ramsey at 2 in 16 no one would be screaming " you passed on Wentz!!". Even if one of these QBS ends up great ( which is 50/50 best case ) no one will say shit if you get a Pro Bowl RB and Pro Bowl DE. You can't afford to miss in the top 5. It's too penal if you do

 

[Clayton]

For every Wentz there's 3 guys who are Taylor level or far worse so you really have about a 25% chance of getting it right if you go QB

Honestly, every prospect needs to be evaluated on an individual basis but generally speaking with the top tier QBs in the past decade we've got:

#3 overall Matt Ryan
#1 overall Matthew Stafford
#5 overall Mark Sanchez
#1 overall Sam Bradford
#1 overall Cam Newton
#8 overall Jake Locker
#10 overall Blaine Gabbert
#12 overall Christian Ponder
#1 overall Andrew Luck
#2 overall Robert Griffin III
#8 overall Ryan Tannehill
#3 overall Blake Bortles
#1 overall Jamies Winston
#2 overall Marcus Mariotta
#1 overall Jared Goff
#2 overall Carson Wentz
#2 overall Mitch Trubisky
#10 overall Pat Mahomes

Sanchez, Locker, and Ponder were seen as reaches IIRC but its still not a terrible list. I do think that its possible that Taylor was undervalued by the Bills but they would know better than anyone else. Being stuck in the mid tiers of the NFL can be a somewhat frustrating experience. Peyton, Big Ben and Brady ran the AFC for a long time so its really difficult to see moving forward without an obvious franchise QB. I feel like if you're building around an elite defense or elite supporting cast then you'll just have your team gutted in free agency in a couple of years. QB is the way to go. Rookie QB contracts are really team friendly in rd1.

 

[Across The Field]

Well he did. Reality is on my side here. I agree that a number of hypotheticals could have worked out for them. But they were final four the way they did it and the Patriots needed some ref help to beat them.

Now they get to enjoy year two of their current offensive identity. They'll build up the line and get better their strengths. Too many fans get caught up in weaknesses rather than looking at strengths. They began turning the running game into a strength when they drafted Fournette. It's a huge franchise changing move for them.

Nothing you're saying suggests they would've have been better off drafting Hunt in the 3rd instead, though, and that's the entire point here.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I said this,earlier but you probably didn't see if. The Browns get beat up not only because they didn't take Wentz but also because they trades back and drafted a guy no one remembers unless you're a Browns fan. I'm not advocating that. I'm advocating taking the best player at tgat spit. If the Browns had taken Bosa or Ramsey at 2 in 16 no one would be screaming " you passed on Wentz!!". Even if one of these QBS ends up great ( which is 50/50 best case ) no one will say shit if you get a Pro Bowl RB and Pro Bowl DE. You can't afford to miss in the top 5. It's too penal if you do

If you end up 0-16 afterwards they will still be screaming why did you pass on the QB, but good point.

I'd love to have both the RB and DE, but if they pass on a QB...I really feel like they will stall out in a couple of years with a 6-10, topside 8-8 type squad.

On the flip, there no guarantee even with the top 5 QB and _________ they will be any better than that, but then we're having a different conversation as to why.

 

[eaglesnut]

Nothing you're saying suggests they would've have been better off drafting Hunt in the 3rd instead, though, and that's the entire point here.

Hunt is a fine back and a really good fit for Reid's O. He did ultimately become their identity but they also had an established QB and two elite pass catching weapons. Totally different world to walk into as a rookie. Chiefs were already in the playoffs, Fournette had to lift an entire franchise there. Even that defense couldn't survive a Bad Bortles offense.

 

[rmilia1]

Honestly, every prospect needs to be evaluated on an individual basis but generally speaking with the top tier QBs in the past decade we've got:

#3 overall Matt Ryan
#1 overall Matthew Stafford
#5 overall Mark Sanchez
#1 overall Sam Bradford
#1 overall Cam Newton
#8 overall Jake Locker
#10 overall Blaine Gabbert
#12 overall Christian Ponder
#1 overall Andrew Luck
#2 overall Robert Griffin III
#8 overall Ryan Tannehill
#3 overall Blake Bortles
#1 overall Jamies Winston
#2 overall Marcus Mariotta
#1 overall Jared Goff
#2 overall Carson Wentz
#2 overall Mitch Trubisky
#10 overall Pat Mahomes

Sanchez, Locker, and Ponder were seen as reaches IIRC but its still not a terrible list. I do think that its possible that Taylor was undervalued by the Bills but they would know better than anyone else. Being stuck in the mid tiers of the NFL can be a somewhat frustrating experience. Peyton, Big Ben and Brady ran the AFC for a long time so its really difficult to see moving forward without an obvious franchise QB. I feel like if you're building around an elite defense or elite supporting cast then you'll just have your team gutted in free agency in a couple of years. QB is the way to go. Rookie QB contracts are really team friendly in rd1.

It's not an awful list but nearly all those teams were working with bad QBS prior to those picks. The Browns aren't. Taylor is average or maybe even slightly better than that and even with that list of 18 QBS there's a grand total of 2 Super Bowl appearances amongst them so when we say it's "not bad" we are basically just talking playoff appearances. Well Taylor has already proven he can get a team with limited talent to the playoffs. I think if you take Barkley and Chubb you can safely say the talent in Cleveland will be better than it was in Buffalo last year.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I know you don't. It's because you don't grasp it. The top 5 backs all went to the playoffs. 9 of the 10 top rushing teams went to the playoffs.

Oh, I grasp it. I just think it is for a lack of better term: Stupid

 

[Fountain City Blues]

How in the world are people still defending the Fournette pick after Hunt and Kamara blew him out of the water?

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Hunt is a fine back and a really good fit for Reid's O. He did ultimately become their identity but they also had an established QB and two elite pass catching weapons. Totally different world to walk into as a rookie. Chiefs were already in the playoffs, Fournette had to lift an entire franchise there. Even that defense couldn't survive a Bad Bortles offense.

The offense was the reason the Jags didn't win the SB handily. Hmmmm....

 

[Across The Field]

Hunt is a fine back and a really good fit for Reid's O. He did ultimately become their identity but they also had an established QB and two elite pass catching weapons. Totally different world to walk into as a rookie. Chiefs were already in the playoffs, Fournette had to lift an entire franchise there. Even that defense couldn't survive a Bad Bortles offense.

Yeah, that's not what happened. His 3.9 YPC wasn't the franchise savior. The moves they made in free agency last year were.

 

[rmilia1]

Who would you guys take as your QB if your choices were Taylor or Bottles??

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Who would you guys take as your QB if your choices were Taylor or Bottles??

Sane people pick Taylor

 

[Across The Field]

Who would you guys take as your QB if your choices were Taylor or Bottles??

Tyrod in a heartbeat. He's the perfect QB right now for Cleveland in terms of ball protection. The biggest reason Cleveland didn't win last year was horrible QB play, especially in the RZ, as they led the NFL in RZ turnovers. Taylor will have plenty of options to help move the ball and won't be relied on to be a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.

 

[eaglesnut]

Oh, I grasp it. I just think it is for a lack of better term: Stupid

Don't worry, you'll get a larger sample size as you age.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Don't worry, you'll get a larger sample size as you age.

Oh noes, everything pre 1999 is super mysterious to me.