Your new LA Laker: Julius Randle

[Retroram52]

Screw that. This is offseason entertainment.

I don't think so Turkey.

 

[Retroram52]

I'm good Retro... This "Fan" felt the need to follow and bother me and since I just noticed it I decided to give him a taste of his own medication... It's obvious he doesn't have any true loyalty so I'm done...

Okie, dokie wlk3.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

I don't think so Turkey.

It's all good here. Wlk has to resort to name calling when he gets upset!

Don't worry, I've just laughed it off though!

Right, back to topic...

 

[trojanfan12]

I'm with retro. Let's lay off the namecalling. There's absolutely nothing wrong with us as Lakers fans disagreeing. Hell, go back and look at some the threads from last year when I was pretty much the only one of us in D'Antoni's corner.


End of the day, whether we agree or not, we are all passionate Lakers fans (hats and all) and in the end we all want the same thing..............the Lakers back where they belong.


So, let's have fun and spirited debate while leaving the namecalling and crude comments to lesser class fans of other teams.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

 

[wlk3]

Lost - Pau, Dantoni, Farmar, Meeks, Marshall, Bozeman

Got - Boozer, Davis, Randall, Lin, Scott, Clarkson

So here we are... While we lost the best player on either list, the gained list is a much better list overall... Many took my disdain as "crying", my only complaint was and still is we could have done better... I still stand by the belief we should have traded the pick, we shouldn't have added Lins contract, and we don't need Boozer... Reasons are simply...

1) the pick could have gotten us a better player than an unproven rookie... While many like Randle, and I'm am interested in watching him develop now that we have him, I still feel we had other options...

2) adding Lin is a temporary fix and we got a pick (mid to early 20), but we could have used that money to go after other players... Especially with Clarkson here, Lin takes his developmental time...IMO

3) I think Boozer is a STEAL at that price, but he brings nothing we need and takes time away from the young guys we just got... If having 4 PFs plus Hill who is almost 1 is for trading purposes I can eat this 1, but if not this is a waste... I'd rather our bigs work with Kareem than Boozer... Plus I'd like to see Ed Davis show what he can do... He too was a top prospect coming out of college (NC was it) and played well with minutes in Toronto and Memphis...

We all know we need to rebuild, the problem I have/had was slowing down the rebuilding process... So we want to keep the roster short for incoming free agents... Well when has a free agent decided to pick a team that has nothing around him...? Luol Deng could have been brought, Ariza, Parsons all 3 are complementary players who won't cause problems and bring defensive and offensive positives... Then you have Stephenson and Bledsoe who are very solid and possible stars, those 2 are players I would hesitate on but worth a look... I know many don't like the idea but Rondo was very interesting to me... I feel this year we could have gotten a player who could have helped us now and been attractive for the free agent we know we need... If we're going to win 36 games this year, why not get a great piece and win 42 games...Love is gone, that ship has sailed which means all the see what Love wants is out the window... In short since we are the greatest franchise in sports history perhaps we should act like it... Take action not react... Perhaps we should let Mitch do his job again and let him set this team up so when he goes out to sign a player we don't look like we hope they come and they can pick the curtains and their teammates... I keep hearing that the Lakers don't let players dictate when making a move, we should act like it... That being said, it is time to order the HAT pay my league pass fees and start rooting...

 

[Retroram52]

Wlk3. In your lost list are you referring to Bazemore when you wrote "Bozeman"? I was just wondering who you were referring.

 

[Retroram52]

I'm with retro. Let's lay off the namecalling. There's absolutely nothing wrong with us as Lakers fans disagreeing. Hell, go back and look at some the threads from last year when I was pretty much the only one of us in D'Antoni's corner.


End of the day, whether we agree or not, we are all passionate Lakers fans (hats and all) and in the end we all want the same thing..............the Lakers back where they belong.


So, let's have fun and spirited debate while leaving the namecalling and crude comments to lesser class fans of other teams.

Spot on as usual TJF12.

 

[wlk3]

Wlk3. In your lost list are you referring to Bazemore when you wrote "Bozeman"? I was just wondering who you were referring.

Yes Bazemore... I wrote this on my phone and it autocorrected...

 

[trojanfan12]

Lost - Pau, Dantoni, Farmar, Meeks, Marshall, Bozeman

Got - Boozer, Davis, Randall, Lin, Scott, Clarkson

So here we are... While we lost the best player on either list, the gained list is a much better list overall... Many took my disdain as "crying", my only complaint was and still is we could have done better... I still stand by the belief we should have traded the pick, we shouldn't have added Lins contract, and we don't need Boozer... Reasons are simply...

1) the pick could have gotten us a better player than an unproven rookie... While many like Randle, and I'm am interested in watching him develop now that we have him, I still feel we had other options...

2) adding Lin is a temporary fix and we got a pick (mid to early 20), but we could have used that money to go after other players... Especially with Clarkson here, Lin takes his developmental time...IMO

3) I think Boozer is a STEAL at that price, but he brings nothing we need and takes time away from the young guys we just got... If having 4 PFs plus Hill who is almost 1 is for trading purposes I can eat this 1, but if not this is a waste... I'd rather our bigs work with Kareem than Boozer... Plus I'd like to see Ed Davis show what he can do... He too was a top prospect coming out of college (NC was it) and played well with minutes in Toronto and Memphis...

We all know we need to rebuild, the problem I have/had was slowing down the rebuilding process... So we want to keep the roster short for incoming free agents... Well when has a free agent decided to pick a team that has nothing around him...? Luol Deng could have been brought, Ariza, Parsons all 3 are complementary players who won't cause problems and bring defensive and offensive positives... Then you have Stephenson and Bledsoe who are very solid and possible stars, those 2 are players I would hesitate on but worth a look... I know many don't like the idea but Rondo was very interesting to me... I feel this year we could have gotten a player who could have helped us now and been attractive for the free agent we know we need... If we're going to win 36 games this year, why not get a great piece and win 42 games...Love is gone, that ship has sailed which means all the see what Love wants is out the window... In short since we are the greatest franchise in sports history perhaps we should act like it... Take action not react... Perhaps we should let Mitch do his job again and let him set this team up so when he goes out to sign a player we don't look like we hope they come and they can pick the curtains and their teammates... I keep hearing that the Lakers don't let players dictate when making a move, we should act like it... That being said, it is time to order the HAT pay my league pass fees and start rooting...

1.) In theory, you are correct. However, the Lakers attempted to trade the pick. Unfortunately, the draft had been de-valued enough at the time, that they couldn't get what they felt was enough for the pick. Randle may or may not work out (chances are that he will) but it's better than losing out on his potential for what the pick was likely to get them. Also, picks tend to get traded as part of a package involving players. Who did the Lakers have under contract that would have been tradeable?

2.) The amount of money that the Lakers are actually paying Lin, wouldn't have necessarily gotten a better player and since you are talking about getting player as a free agent, there would have been no draft pick either. Also, it's said that Byron likes the kid and Lin seems to have the right attitude. How about we let Byron coach him up a little and Nash mentor him a little, before we decide whether or not the Lakers could have done better?

3.) As you said, Boozer is a steal at the price the Lakers got him for. Boozer can be a very valuable asset. He is a savvy and experienced vet who can teach the young guys a lot. Also, if he comes in with a bit of a chip on his shoulder and plays well, he could bring some good value close to the trade deadline.

I agree about Kareem working with the young bigs, but Kareem can't be there every single day teaching them. Boozer can.

The guys that you mentioned that the Lakers could have gotten would not make them contenders and would eat future cap space. Those are the kinds of players you add as the finishing touches to a contender, not the guys that you build around. They're the guys you add to a team that has in their primes Shaq and Kobe, not a team that has a 35 year old Kobe coming off a major injury.

Also, they were all getting 4 year deals, the Lakers are set to have a boatload of cap space after this season and even more when Kobe's contract expires in 2016. 4 year deals to guys like Deng and Parsons would have eaten into that cap room.

How pissed would you be if they missed on top FA's because of the deals they gave this year, for a team that isn't going to be contending for any titles anyway?

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Bledsoe has yet to prove he's worth a max contract though, that contract could easily backfire.

 

[wlk3]

1.) In theory, you are correct. However, the Lakers attempted to trade the pick. Unfortunately, the draft had been de-valued enough at the time, that they couldn't get what they felt was enough for the pick. Randle may or may not work out (chances are that he will) but it's better than losing out on his potential for what the pick was likely to get them. Also, picks tend to get traded as part of a package involving players. Who did the Lakers have under contract that would have been tradeable?

2.) The amount of money that the Lakers are actually paying Lin, wouldn't have necessarily gotten a better player and since you are talking about getting player as a free agent, there would have been no draft pick either. Also, it's said that Byron likes the kid and Lin seems to have the right attitude. How about we let Byron coach him up a little and Nash mentor him a little, before we decide whether or not the Lakers could have done better?

3.) As you said, Boozer is a steal at the price the Lakers got him for. Boozer can be a very valuable asset. He is a savvy and experienced vet who can teach the young guys a lot. Also, if he comes in with a bit of a chip on his shoulder and plays well, he could bring some good value close to the trade deadline.

I agree about Kareem working with the young bigs, but Kareem can't be there every single day teaching them. Boozer can.

The guys that you mentioned that the Lakers could have gotten would not make them contenders and would eat future cap space. Those are the kinds of players you add as the finishing touches to a contender, not the guys that you build around. They're the guys you add to a team that has in their primes Shaq and Kobe, not a team that has a 35 year old Kobe coming off a major injury.

Also, they were all getting 4 year deals, the Lakers are set to have a boatload of cap space after this season and even more when Kobe's contract expires in 2016. $year deals to guys like Deng and Parsons would have eaten into that cap room.

How pissed would you be if they missed on top FA's because of the deals they gave this year, for a team that isn't going to be contending for any titles anyway?

1) It's a crap shoot... I can't say Randle won't be good like you can't say he will... I'll side with you that chances are he'll be good, but let's not pretend he is going to be better than Kevin Love... And picks are normally added to player trades but there are teams that wanted picks Boston for sure, agree or not the pick and say Nash for Rondo/Crash could have been doable... We keep Rondo trade Wallace next year or let his contract run out... I'm sure there were better deals more options as we had/have cap space... Why not Lin/Asik/2 first rounders from Houston since we got Lin and 1 first rounder free the #7 pick was worth the other guy they gave away and a pick they gave away... we have Randle and we don't know what else we could have gotten so this is a never ending discussion fact is we got Randle, I think we could've gotten better, but I concede we could have gotten worse... Let's now see what we got is all we can do...

2) if I were the new Lakers coach why would I say I didn't like Lin...? He only has to deal with him for 1 year, if Lin pans out it makes Scott look better, if it doesn't Lin walks and we look for his replacement, what's not to like...? From what I saw I believe he is due 8.3 mil, Boozer is 3.25 that's 11.5 mil we could have spent on best option Chandler Parson 14, 16, 18 mil... That's a high price but maybe worth the risk, Deng is 2 years 10 mil, I believe Ariza is at 9mil... Again, I understand you don't want to overpay and these aren't the guys you build around, but these are guys you should have so a guy who you do build around says okay so we don't have to start from scratch... What you and others are suggesting are what the Heat did, and that was orchestrated...

3) what I've seen of Boozer is on a contract year he is a monster, but his loyalty is nonexistent... Ed Davis has been in the league for like 3 or so years... They can also add a coach if necessary... Again I don't hate Boozer, just find him unnecessary... Also if you're talking trading him, not sure but I think another poster said he can not be traded this year which then makes it moot as we only have him for 1... But I can't say that is fact because I don't know...

As you said we look to have nobody 2016... That being the case having Deng or Parsons wouldn't be a bad thing... I personally would liked to have had that be Parsons, but it matters not... I honestly don't think having an empty roster is better than having some solid pieces and going after a big fish when Kobe and Nash are off the books... But we will see what happens... What's done is done... Let's go Lakers!

 

[wlk3]

Bledsoe has yet to prove he's worth a max contract though, that contract could easily backfire.

I agree which is why I wouldn't offer him more than 10mil... Both he and Stephson are risky, not sure if I'd go after those guys, but id look at them

 

[wlk3]

I agree which is why I wouldn't offer him more than 10mil... Both he and Stephson are risky, not sure if I'd go after those guys, but id look at them

To expound this year I would have look to a add a quality helpful hard hat player... My list would have been:

1) Asik
2) Rondo
3) Chandler
4) Deng
5) Ariza

And went from there...

 

[trojanfan12]

Bledsoe has yet to prove he's worth a max contract though, that contract could easily backfire.

Yep, the Lakers got Lin for the price that they did because he had a season very much like Bledsoe just had. Turned out that Lin isn't a bad player, he just isn't as good as his contract. Essentially he's a solid NBA caliber point guard who was getting paid like he's CP3.

Bledsoe needs a couple more years at last seasons level to even be considered for the type of contract he's asking for.

 

[trojanfan12]

1) It's a crap shoot... I can't say Randle won't be good like you can't say he will... I'll side with you that chances are he'll be good, but let's not pretend he is going to be better than Kevin Love... And picks are normally added to player trades but there are teams that wanted picks Boston for sure, agree or not the pick and say Nash for Rondo/Crash could have been doable... We keep Rondo trade Wallace next year or let his contract run out... I'm sure there were better deals more options as we had/have cap space... Why not Lin/Asik/2 first rounders from Houston since we got Lin and 1 first rounder free the #7 pick was worth the other guy they gave away and a pick they gave away... we have Randle and we don't know what else we could have gotten so this is a never ending discussion fact is we got Randle, I think we could've gotten better, but I concede we could have gotten worse... Let's now see what we got is all we can do...

2) if I were the new Lakers coach why would I say I didn't like Lin...? He only has to deal with him for 1 year, if Lin pans out it makes Scott look better, if it doesn't Lin walks and we look for his replacement, what's not to like...? From what I saw I believe he is due 8.3 mil, Boozer is 3.25 that's 11.5 mil we could have spent on best option Chandler Parson 14, 16, 18 mil... That's a high price but maybe worth the risk, Deng is 2 years 10 mil, I believe Ariza is at 9mil... Again, I understand you don't want to overpay and these aren't the guys you build around, but these are guys you should have so a guy who you do build around says okay so we don't have to start from scratch... What you and others are suggesting are what the Heat did, and that was orchestrated...

3) what I've seen of Boozer is on a contract year he is a monster, but his loyalty is nonexistent... Ed Davis has been in the league for like 3 or so years... They can also add a coach if necessary... Again I don't hate Boozer, just find him unnecessary... Also if you're talking trading him, not sure but I think another poster said he can not be traded this year which then makes it moot as we only have him for 1... But I can't say that is fact because I don't know...

As you said we look to have nobody 2016... That being the case having Deng or Parsons wouldn't be a bad thing... I personally would liked to have had that be Parsons, but it matters not... I honestly don't think having an empty roster is better than having some solid pieces and going after a big fish when Kobe and Nash are off the books... But we will see what happens... What's done is done... Let's go Lakers!

1.) Trading Nash is not doable or it would have been done already. As much as I hate to say it, Nash's main value right now is as an expiring contract. There are/were plenty of better or at least healthier players available than Nash. How do you know Asik wasn't discussed? Just because a trade that you think could/should have happened, didn't happen, doesn't mean it wasn't discussed. With some of these scenarios that you throw out there, it's like you think the Lakers were just sitting on their hands all off-season or out looking to make the worst deals possible. I'm sure all kinds of trade scenarios, most of which we will never know about and many we haven't thought of were discussed.

2.) So Byron was what? Lying when he said he likes the Lin's game. If he didn't like his game, why mention him at all? If he was asked a question, why talk about the things he likes about him instead of a generic "He's a good player" response? How the hell is Parsons worth $14-18 million as the starting piece of building a contender? You don't start a re-build with a guy like Parsons, you finish one with him.

3.) The Lakers don't need Boozer to be loyal. They need him to play well and mentor the young guys. I will be surprised if he is brought back next year unless it's another 1 year deal at a better salary. Even if they can't trade him, he's still a great 1 year addition.

Why are you trying to build the team backwards? That's what you are doing when you bring in guys like that before you bring in max guys. You get your max guys first so that you can then go after guys that fit well with them.

For example: If the Lakers had landed Lebron, then you'd want a guy like Parsons to spread the floor and open the paint for Lebron to drive to the hoop. However, if you get 'Melo, you take a guy like Deng over Parsons because you need his defense and inside play. Parsons with 'Melo is a redundancy.

 

[wlk3]

Yep, the Lakers got Lin for the price that they did because he had a season very much like Bledsoe just had. Turned out that Lin isn't a bad player, he just isn't as good as his contract. Essentially he's a solid NBA caliber point guard who was getting paid like he's CP3.

Bledsoe needs a couple more years at last seasons level to even be considered for the type of contract he's asking for.

I've agreed Bledsoe isn't worth a max deal but he is way better than Lin ever was it's not even close... Injury would be my only concern with him, but it would be a big concern...

 

[wlk3]

1.) Trading Nash is not doable or it would have been done already. As much as I hate to say it, Nash's main value right now is as an expiring contract. There are/were plenty of better or at least healthier players available than Nash. How do you know Asik wasn't discussed? Just because a trade that you think could/should have happened, didn't happen, doesn't mean it wasn't discussed. With some of these scenarios that you throw out there, it's like you think the Lakers were just sitting on their hands all off-season or out looking to make the worst deals possible. I'm sure all kinds of trade scenarios, most of which we will never know about and many we haven't thought of were discussed.

2.) So Byron was what? Lying when he said he likes the Lin's game. If he didn't like his game, why mention him at all? If he was asked a question, why talk about the things he likes about him instead of a generic "He's a good player" response? How the hell is Parsons worth $14-18 million as the starting piece of building a contender? You don't start a re-build with a guy like Parsons, you finish one with him.

3.) The Lakers don't need Boozer to be loyal. They need him to play well and mentor the young guys. I will be surprised if he is brought back next year unless it's another 1 year deal at a better salary. Even if they can't trade him, he's still a great 1 year addition.

Why are you trying to build the team backwards? That's what you are doing when you bring in guys like that before you bring in max guys. You get your max guys first so that you can then go after guys that fit well with them.

For example: If the Lakers had landed Lebron, then you'd want a guy like Parsons to spread the floor and open the paint for Lebron to drive to the hoop. However, if you get 'Melo, you take a guy like Deng over Parsons because you need his defense and inside play. Parsons with 'Melo is a redundancy.

1) if we're going that route of course I can't say they didn't make the inquiry, like you can't say they did... What I can say is NO got Asik for a 2015 first round pick and 1.5mil... Since we got Lin for free I'd say we could have gotten both for free... They were looking to dump salary and Asik was due 15 mil in his final year which is this year coming... Perhaps they will try to sign him after this year but we may have had the inside track if we had him already... I add Nash to a package that includes the #7 pick because as you said he will be off the books after this year, which is why I went Rondo/Crash... Celtics clear the Crash contract a year early by taking Nash and they get rid of Rondo and get another 1st round pick... I act like they sat on their hands because that's what they appeared to do... Again, as of late things were being run into the ground by little Buss... It appeared they still were... I can admit I may have been wrong, but can you admit the same...?

2) Why wouldn't he say what he likes...? He's a new coach, he needs his players on his side... I can't say for sure, but he probably talked about everybody on the roster and said what he liked... I'm sure there were things he didn't like but he didn't say that either... As you said he's over paid... Should Byron come out and say, "well Lin is good, but not as good as his contract says..." That would be dumb... As for Parsons, he may not be worth the 14-18 for the 3 years but that's what it took to get him out of Houston... But when those 3 years are up Dallas will be his first choice and if he becomes the MAN as he is looking like, he would be worth his next contract... You may not build around him, but you will need him... And he isn't as easy to find as okay we have our star let's go get Parsons now...

3) Boozer is unnecessary IMO... Nothing you can say to change my mind... He's not in the long term plans, he's below to average defensively, and he takes minutes away from our young guys... He is a good scorer and solid rebounder... I have said Randle looks like Boozer to me which may be something that can help his growth, but Boozer is going to need to teach the guy to shoot... We have other people who can do this... Again, a steal at that price but it looks more like a desperation move for a few more wins so people like me can shut up and people like you to say they got Boozer what else do you want them to do...

I'm trying to build backwards because this is the hand that is dealt... When Dwight left we had holes... Kobe's age creates more holes... Pau gone... Nash never came... Holes holes holes... At this point the future is this...

1. Randle starter
2. Young 6th man
3. Jordan Hill possible sub
4. Clarkson sub
5. Kelly sub
6. Sacre sub

That's it... Anybody else including the guys labeled "sub" are either gone or replaceable with little to no effort... So I'm building backwards to give somebody who may want to join a winner a reason to believe the Lakers are him signing on the dotted line away from being that winner... Because at this point, the new NBA is about finding enough talent around you to win while still standing out as "the man"... There's a reason people went to Miami, want to go to the Bulls, Cavs, Okc, GS, Clipps, Houston... They feel like they have a chance... Around this time last year many were talking about how Love would be a Laker after this year... Looks like having a team in place changed that up real quick... That's all I'm saying...

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

You've got some valid points there Wlk, some of which I agree, some I don't.

The reason i'm so excited about Randle is because he's stood out for me when he was in college. He's young, very athletic and NBA ready. He has a good shot from within 15 feet, finishes great at the basket, is a good defender and is not afraid to go 1-on-1 against bigger, stronger guys. Outside of Wiggins and Parker THIS is the guy I had hoped the Lakers would get and at #7 he was a steal. Yes I do think he will be better than Love in the long run. I've watched at least a dozen games of his while he was at Kentucky and he's a very skilled, smart player.

It was pretty much settled that Pau would never re-sign with us. A combination of Randle, Boozer and Davis easily fills his void, if not upgrades the PF position dramatically. Gasol was on a steady decline over the year and while I would have loved to kept the guy he was getting more and more injuries and getting very soft at the rim.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

As for rebuilding through the draft in the foreseeable future... not an option. Next years draft class is extremely weak, and the following year is projected to be even worse. Let Phoenix keep our pick - there's nobody out there that's better than any D-leaguer at the moment.