The Roster: Position Groups- DLine/Linebackers

[richig07]

So, Lovie and Marinelli made him look bad too?

Come on Noon… How many first round picks are complete failures every year? A very solid chunk of them. Once you've played four seasons in the NFL… what you did in college means ABSOLUTELY nothing. Do we have to go down the line of even the most "can't miss" prospects that were terrible? I'd say the fact that the Chicago Bears found him appealing as a first round prospects is actually a HUGE negative mark on his record if you look back upon the past few decades.

It's very obvious at this point Shea will not amount to much. He's had four seasons man. Can we please all get off of this merry-go-round? Will Sutton has already been more impressive in his career as a Bear, and he did so in the midst of the biggest disaster of a season that I can remember as a Bears fan.

The guy is a career depth guy, at best. If you're going into the season with Shea as a starter for your team… that's a bad sign.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Lovie never wanted him or used him and Tucker played him out of position and confused him. All I'm saying is now he will be used right and at the right position. So who knows maybe we can get a little return on him. Like you said the odds are against him and I don't expect much. But I'll give him this year because the last few with Tucker is no way to judge any def player. I would bet a few of our young guys play better now. He will put it together this year or be gone that is for sure.

 

[NCChiFan]

So, Lovie and Marinelli made him look bad too?

Come on Noon… How many first round picks are complete failures every year? A very solid chunk of them. Once you've played four seasons in the NFL… what you did in college means ABSOLUTELY nothing. Do we have to go down the line of even the most "can't miss" prospects that were terrible? I'd say the fact that the Chicago Bears found him appealing as a first round prospects is actually a HUGE negative mark on his record if you look back upon the past few decades.

It's very obvious at this point Shea will not amount to much. He's had four seasons man. Can we please all get off of this merry-go-round? Will Sutton has already been more impressive in his career as a Bear, and he did so in the midst of the biggest disaster of a season that I can remember as a Bears fan.

The guy is a career depth guy, at best. If you're going into the season with Shea as a starter for your team… that's a bad sign.

Sad thing is, the Bears are using him yet again out of position. An OLB moved to ILB, but no first we tried him at DE.

 

[blh7068]

Sad thing is, the Bears are using him yet again out of position. An OLB moved to ILB, but no first we tried him at DE.

If they arent using a 2 gap at the nose(and it doesnt look like theyre going that route)- I dont see where he can be productive anywhere, tbh.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

why don't you think they are using a 2-gap system?

 

[blh7068]

why don't you think they are using a 2-gap system?

Yes, most 3-4's employ a 2 gap NT, but Fangio favored undersized NTs while in SF. Also look at the NT's on the Bears roster right now. I dont see anyone with the ideal size to be a space eating(2 gap) tackle. so, it looks to me he will at least try the same thing here. The problem imo, is he doesnt quite have the LB corps that he had in SF. As you know, a 2 gap NT is a big help in keeping blockers away from the LBers. Thats why I think Shea might not have a place right now if they go the single gap NT route- hes fast, but he gets swallowed up by blockers too easily.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

San Francisco used a really wide variety of defensive looks, including both 1 and 2 gap fronts. You don't have to be Ngata to play 2-gap NT. I think we are going to see a little bit of everything here.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

in fact, I think one resolution to the "what are we going to do with Jared Allen" mystery is that I'd expect to see numerous fronts where they have 3 down linemen, but shifted slightly as in an under-3 front, but where Allen is essentially the 4th lineman (although not with his hands on the ground), playing a wide 9 position but lined up right on the LOS. That's basically (strictly speaking) a 3-4 front but with 1 gap assignment. San Francisco used a lot of that, with Justin Smith being the quasi-4th lineman. I am pretty sure Fox's team used this in Denver quite a bit also.

 

[blh7068]

San Francisco used a really wide variety of defensive looks, including both 1 and 2 gap fronts. You don't have to be Ngata to play 2-gap NT. I think we are going to see a little bit of everything here.

Of course they dont have be Ngata. However, the effective 2 gap tackles certainly err on the larger size. Most NTs in a 3-4 are just that- huge dudes that eat space by taking on more than one blocker.

JMO- but I lose confidence that assignment gets carried out by the undersized NTs like the ones the Bears currently have on their roster.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

I think you are a little too worked up over the need for huge size in an NT. The 49ers have played plenty of 2-gap over the years without a monster NT, and I'd hardly call them unsuccessful. Plenty of other teams have done so successfully as well. They aren't all Wilforks and Ngatas. It is a nice thing to have, but far from a requirement.

Ratliff is already a proven 2-gap NT, he did so successfully in Dallas, although he's a bit older now. Goldman is pretty massive, although he's obviously unproven so far. Even Ferguson is big enough to play the position, easily.

 

[blh7068]

I think you are a little too worked up over the need for huge size in an NT. The 49ers have played plenty of 2-gap over the years without a monster NT, and I'd hardly call them unsuccessful. Plenty of other teams have done so successfully as well. They aren't all Wilforks and Ngatas. It is a nice thing to have, but far from a requirement.

Ratliff is already a proven 2-gap NT, he did so successfully in Dallas, although he's a bit older now. Goldman is pretty massive, although he's obviously unproven so far. Even Ferguson is big enough to play the position, easily.

Worked up? Perhaps, lol. Keep in mind I never said other options wouldnt work. I just prefer size in a two gap tackle for the reasons I stated. Also, Fangio had outstanding LBers in SF- that offers that kind of flexibility. Thats not close to being the case with this team- the LB corps is a large unknown quantity.

As for Goldman- I really like the pick. Listed at 6'4 and 336, he can 1 and 2 gap.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

well, I hear you. We'll see how Goldman pans out. And there's no doubt that your basic point is right on....there's major amounts of uncertainty about our linebackers. Major. But I look at it this way...if Fangio could work wonders with Chris Borland, who is to say he can't pull some magic out with some of these guys?

 

[blh7068]

But I look at it this way...if Fangio could work wonders with Chris Borland, who is to say he can't pull some magic out with some of these guys?

The fact they now have a proven DC certainly warrants your suggestion, for sure. More than anything else- Im glad theyve established a direction to go in- thats the first step to building an identity.

Last off season it looked to me like they made all of those defensive acquisitions to simply "get better"...without much thought from Tucker regarding what he wanted his players to do wrt to their skill sets/capabilities. For lack of a better term, the front 7 looked "mismatched".

 

[richig07]

Sad thing is, the Bears are using him yet again out of position. An OLB moved to ILB, but no first we tried him at DE.

The problem is, he doesn't have a position. He was a subpar DE, and a subpar MLB. Odds are, wherever you play him, he'll be a subpar starter.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

The problem is, he doesn't have a position. He was a subpar DE, and a subpar MLB. Odds are, wherever you play him, he'll be a subpar starter.

Oh screw that. I misplaced high hopes in Jay Cutler for six years. Now that I've gotten over that, I need someone new to misplace high hopes for. Shea is only coming into year 4, so...

Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Defensive Comeback Player of the Year, Shea McClellin! And his number one cheerleader right here, Cubzzzfanincali!

 

[NCChiFan]

The problem is, he doesn't have a position. He was a subpar DE, and a subpar MLB. Odds are, wherever you play him, he'll be a subpar starter.

Hard to argue with any of this...

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Oh screw that. I misplaced high hopes in Jay Cutler for six years. Now that I've gotten over that, I need someone new to misplace high hopes for. Shea is only coming into year 4, so...

Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Defensive Comeback Player of the Year, Shea McClellin! And his number one cheerleader right here, Cubzzzfanincali!

Not sure if you are joking Cali but I want in. Lovie never used him and the last staff was a joke beyond believe. I can see him becoming a solid contributor under Fangio. I'll be his second cheerleader and shave one leg. All kidding aside the last staff was so bad that I'm not ready to judge ANY player from that system. Clean slate.

 

[richig07]

Not sure if you are joking Cali but I want in. Lovie never used him and the last staff was a joke beyond believe. I can see him becoming a solid contributor under Fangio. I'll be his second cheerleader and shave one leg. All kidding aside the last staff was so bad that I'm not ready to judge ANY player from that system. Clean slate.

Good luck Nooner. I don't see it, but I hope you're right here.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Good luck Nooner. I don't see it, but I hope you're right here.

Two things I feel I am right about is, it's not fair to judge any of our young guys that played under Tucker and that Fangio will get more out of them.

 

[richig07]

Starting line (man it's weird with a 3-4)

DLINE:
DE- Jarvis Jenkins, Houston, Sutton
DT- Jeremiah Ratliff, Goldman, Ferguson
DE- Ray McDonald, Ferguson, Sutton

OLB- Pernell McPhee, Houston, McClellin?
ILB- Sam Acho, Bostic,
ILB- Mason Foster, Jones,
OLB- Jared Allen/Willy Young?


5 new starters and a position change in Allen/Young... Thoughts?

Sutton is supposed to be working at the nose from everything I have heard. Not Ego.