The Official Fire Dusty Baker Thread

[Ryanballa]

Last nights loss was noy on Dusty Baker, its getting really ridiculous that every loss we have falls on that man.
1st off-Dusty told BP to bunt, which is what a 2nd hole hitter does, He did not tell Heisey to bunt, that was Heiseys idea because the 3rd baseman was playing deep, and heisey simply didnt execute the play correctly.
2nd-Joey Votto- 0-7, Heisey 0-6 a lot of missed rbis between the both of them.
Its a team game and Reds kept fighting and played hard last night and it was a helluva game and a heart breaker, but not Bakers fault. Reds will comeback today and take 3 outta 4.

 

[JohnU]

A useless hitting philosophy and a vapid bunting regimen is directly the responsibility of the team, which includes the brain-dead coaching staff.

Asking Phillips to bunt was stupid.

He's the best run producer on the team.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Dusty isn't the worst manager, but that's not the point. It IS a team game... This team has evolved into a much better talent team, and you don't do that with most players that just play average, so how can they try to get to a higher level with a manager that is just average ? A better manager would win a few more games, especially those ones lost by 1 run on a bad call, or a no call from the bench. Baserunning has ALWAYS been bad since Dusty has been here...and it's not improving...too many different players with the same results to blame that consistent failing on a changing roster. It's the dugout staff that either can't or won't improve it.


Everything isn't Dusty's fault, but everything is his responsibility...but I've NEVER heard him say anything was his mistake. It's always a player. I don't respect that much, and regardless of what they say in public? players can't respect that much either.

That said, the Cardinals are a good team that usually dominates the Reds. A split would be an improvement,but won't get the Reds any closer to winning a division...like Dusty, just pretty good, isn't always good enough.

 

[Beggs]

A useless hitting philosophy and a vapid bunting regimen is directly the responsibility of the team, which includes the brain-dead coaching staff.

Asking Phillips to bunt was stupid.

He's the best run producer on the team.

Guys have been playing baseball for 20 years+. Not being able to bunt doesn't lie solely on the coaches, some does, but i would be willing to bet my life that they do plenty of bunting in practice. Same goes for base running.

BP scoring runs is a direct result of who is ahead of him in the lineup, nothing more. If you have 2 guys in front of you with a .424 and a .417 OBP (1st and 2nd in the NL BTW), you are going to get a ton of chances to knock in runs. The decision to have him bunt was a great one. You move the winning run into scoring position with your best hitter coming up next. If BP had hit into a DP, and Votto smacks a double, you would be in here bitching the Dusty cost us the game by not moving Choo up to second when he had the chance.

Nothing will ever be good enough for you, and every decision is the wrong one when it doesn't work 100% of the time. Your crying is directly proportional to your lack of baseball knowledge.

 

[chico ruiz]

the "fireman" makes some good points. seems like a relatively objective view, as well. there is some good analysis on this board (emphasis on 'some'), but a lot of it is whiny condescending name-calling. it's part of being a fan to second guess the manager. i try to do it in real time as an exercise. but, you can't have it both ways, after the fact, on every managerial move.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I'd say I could disagree w/ JohnU, but to question his baseball knowledge may be exposing your own ignorance...just saying.

Im a bunt fan.. When it's getting a runner to 3b and one out, when he could score from 3rd about 8 ways without a hit...The same runner at 2b with 1 out, not so much. If it's Cozart I bunt, Phillips- the way he's hitting, I swing away there. Just semantics. There is no right or wrong answer, just a difference in not tskung the bat out of a hot hitters hands, and leaving it up to a good hitter slumping(Votto)....

BP's situation was insignificant to Heiseys fubar...no way I allow a half wit 5th OF that hasn't hit squat have the power of a decision that can gaffe a game. That was lack of good sense, allowed by lack of good management. You don't give green lights to little children, the blind, or marginal hitters. It's negligence, IMO. If Heisey knew he was supposed to hit away, and bunted anyway, I'd let him rot before he played again. There are 2 other OF on the team that can do as well as he can- stupidity won't help him.

 

[David_son]

You should have started this about 5 years ago

 

[Redsfan1507]

I don't believe Dusty will be fired this year. The Reds will expect the players to win more on their own, in spite of Dusty. It's a flawed plan, especially if Hamilton is the plan to replace Choo next year, and Dusty gets to decide how he's used. It's like expecting Nancy Pelosi and John Boehner to be a great team.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Lost in all this is the fact the Reds bullpen gave up TWO xtra inning HR to the SAME guy. Gotta be a missed lesson on there.

 

[JohnU]

Guys have been playing baseball for 20 years+. Not being able to bunt doesn't lie solely on the coaches, some does, but i would be willing to bet my life that they do plenty of bunting in practice. Same goes for base running.

BP scoring runs is a direct result of who is ahead of him in the lineup, nothing more. If you have 2 guys in front of you with a .424 and a .417 OBP (1st and 2nd in the NL BTW), you are going to get a ton of chances to knock in runs. The decision to have him bunt was a great one. You move the winning run into scoring position with your best hitter coming up next. If BP had hit into a DP, and Votto smacks a double, you would be in here bitching the Dusty cost us the game by not moving Choo up to second when he had the chance.

Nothing will ever be good enough for you, and every decision is the wrong one when it doesn't work 100% of the time. Your crying is directly proportional to your lack of baseball knowledge.

Spare me your arrogance over advanced metrics, as if I didn't know what they are.
Phillips had 2 hits, including a HR, last night. He had 100 RBI.
6 SIX bunts during the game produced exactly how many runs? Oh, I see ... there was a chance Phillips would hit into a DP and that I might be bitchy about that. Votto hadn't had a hit in 3 days and was 0-for-the-game.

As well, all the metrics today and have since about 1970 have proven that giving up an at-bat with 0 outs is a total waste of energy.

But to suggest that bunting the No. 2 guy in your order with 0 outs and the rest of the order coming up ... yeah, it was stupid.

So whatever advanced metrics you want to assert to prove that I don't know anything about baseball, feel free to deliver.

Honestly, I don't care about RBI ... but I do care about scoring a run. With one out, the odds really go down. This isn't a time clock. An out is worth a lot. Giving one away at the top of the order is really bad strategy, borne of a time that has passed our manager by.

 

[Beggs]

OBP....

Advanced metrics....

lol

 

[Ryanballa]

We took 3 outta 4 from the Cardinals and could have easily took 4. I can guarantee you Dusty wont be going anywhere this year, and in my opinion he will be back next year. Get use to it. He has us in a perfect spot to take the division, and just because some fans want him out, don't mean the players do. BTW a 2 hole hitter is suppose to bunt in that situation, with your 2 best hitters coming up next, that's the guys it falls on to get the runner in, and Joey and jay didn't do it that night. But we still got 3 outta 4 and are boys got some momentum going into the LA series. GO REDS!

 

[JohnU]

OBP....

Advanced metrics....

lol

You are right, it's not an advanced metric. It's also irrelevant for this discussion.
We already established Choo's OBP ... and he was on first base.
What we wanted Phillips to do was move him along without making a ridiculous out.
OBP in this scenario is the least important stat.
An RBI was what we were looking for and that stat is scarcely useful either -- it's a stat of opportunity.
The point is, and was then, that wasting an out is wasting an out.
Your point is theoretical -- what if BP had hit into a DP? Yeah, but if he had gotten a double, the game would have been over. Sacrifice bunting, except for the pitcher, is a ridiculous strategy. And it always has been.

 

[eburg5000]

I'm not a big Dusty fan, but I am pretty sure we will have him the rest of this year and all or most of next year. So we might as well get used to it. Dusty's pros and cons have been discussed fully. The Reds barring a big run by AZ or Washington. The Reds will be in the playoffs despite themselves. I don't think much is going to be accomplished here on this thread. one way or the other. I do understand why its here, because we fans get a little frustrated by the way things are going, and we need a release valve to blow off some steam

 

[Hit-n-Run]

I agree with everything you said eburg.
I think it just comes down to this board being a outlet for fans to vent.

I don't mind posters venting as long as they make a good point some of the time and I think most regulars do. I enjoy reading the board and I assume the regulars do as well.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I agree Dusty will be back next year, although I believe Dusty has contributed as much as any player to the Reds NOT being in command of this division already.

Every team has adversity-injuries, slumps, etc. and the Reds roster has done as well as could be expected covering those things. What disturbs me most about this team are the things that don't seem to improve, regardless of the roster- bad baserunning, poor fundamental situational play- not just execution, but often the lack of an attempt at a needed play, or an ill timed play at the wrong time. When a shortstop makes 25 errors a year, and can't show any inclination to improve, they usually replace him. Somehow, everyone doesn't grade managers the same way...it IS a team game, and like error prone shortstops- a manager that makes 25 errors a year better make up for them in another area- shortstops that hit 25 HR might do that, but "chemistry" is all Dusty offers in compensation for his errors as a manager- an escoteric, undefinable attribute at best. I've often argued I don't want a happy clubhouse on a losing team- it means they don't care, and on the flip side, I've rarely seen a winner with bad chemistry...I think chemistry is more a product of winning- and the manager needs to hold up his end of the winning by executing more than just good will. He needs to be proficient in his job managing, not just cheer leading.

 

[eburg5000]

One thing for sure, There is not much on these boards that anyone should take to personal. This is just opinions, and you know what they say about opinions.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Heisey on 3-3 7th inning. Dusty bunts Choo - instead of PR Hamilton and Stealing 2b first...if you are going to take the bat away from Choo, why not get a runner to 3b with 1 out, then Izturis' flyball puts the Reds up ? Instead, Dusty Fuchs up the small ball- forcing the least likey hitter- Izturis to get a hit...he doesn't, Mattingly says thanks, walks Votto with 2 out, and Heisey is stranded. Reds offense stranded with the anchor out, because Dusty's constipated. Didn't exactly use best strategy to give a better statistical chance of scoring there, did he ? E-M. (Error-Manager)

 

[Redsfan1507]

...an extra inning game without Chapman, could have been avoided with a little 101...further battering his playoff push team because he's too stupid or stubborn to try to win a game the same way he won just 2 days ago. Inexplicable.

 

[Redsfan1507]

A win is a win.