The Official Fire Dusty Baker Thread

[JohnU]

The Marlins may have ended on a more positive note than our Reds will.

I hope Dusty gets a sense of urgency on Tuesday. He's out if room to back up. The wall is up his ass now. I can't wait to see what managerial gems he has in store for us. So far, he's made a gaffe in every playoff loss of the Reds, and I guess that means for him, urgency is dangerous.

Letting Bailey lead off the 5th inning the other night down 2-1 in a game that the team had to win was classic Baker. I would say that defines the guy. He would rather Bailey get a "W" because he thinks it's a real statistic.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Dusty is in a position his supporters will say is unfair. He has to win, and his players just aren't responding. Well, such is life in pro sports. Players don't have to attack the manager in the press, and they don't usually...I don't think players tank on purpose either, I think there are a few small things that combine to make a good team lose- normal wear and tear and fatigue, psychological issues like pressure, or doubt, and sometimes just a low team metabolism that doesn't have enough adrenalin to meet the more motivated opponent. When that goes on for an extended time, they used to say the manager had lost his team...and it's cheaper and easier to replace a manager, than 6-8 players.

I'm biased because I don't believe in Dusty Baker. Are some players in the same boat ? Maybe. There are lots of media that hype how much players like playing for Dusty, but to tell the truth, I haven't heard that much from players. Not many criticize him, but that's not the same as liking him as a manager, which also is different than liking him as a person. I've played with guys I liked, but liked it better when they were on the bench, or playing for someone else when it came to winning. I've also had managers that I didn't like much, but still respected because they were fair, and damned good at their jobs. I've also not enjoyed some managers I thought were just going through the motions. It doesn't matter if they are an easy task, if they accept losing too easily, IMO.

I'm sure Dusty wants to win, but I'm also inclined to believe that he isn't all urgent until his contract is nearing the end. Players shouldn't need more motivation than the money and the opportunity to win, but in the real world, where a managers technical skill can effect a game as much as a player, players do notice...and the manager does effect the mood.

If this team flounders Tuesday like it has the last month, I think a change is in order...IF the Reds really want more than just a playoff appearence. Maybe that's enough for them, and Dusty is enough. Maybe they do really believe that one more hitter every year will turn the corner and take them to the bext level, but it hasn't so far.

There are managers that "failed" with teams, and succeeded with others. It's not always better talent that allows that. Anyone think Francona had better talent in Cleveland than in Boston ? Clint Hurdle orchestrated the '07 Rockies into a late season winner and took the to the big show, and got ousted by injuries and lack of talent later, and wound up taking a loser in Pittsburgh to the playoffs. I think Dusty has taken this team as far as his talent, and the Reds ability to hire talent, can go. It's ALMOST good enough, and that's a difficult place to be.