"It's a warrior's name"

[Sharkinva]

So money is NOT fungible?.........and the money that he took was specifically used by the NFL for exclusive NFL use only?

Money is Fungible. How ever the money he took came directly from something he proclaims to be against. Again if he was so against it, why the pretense of being an impartial Ref?? Why hide how he really felt?? Oh yea because if it was known he might not have gotten the money.

 

[RedskinzDan]

I live in Nebraska and have no connection to the team other than the name Redskins. The Redskins became my team as a young boy only because of the name of the team. The only photo of myself I ever remember seeing was a family vacation photo at Mount Rushmore, in the photo I was being held by a Native American, dressed with a full headdress. It made an impression on me. I have always felt a connection with Native Americans, Geronimo was my hero as a boy. In movies I always cheered for the Indians over the Troops or Cowboys. That's way I love the Redskins and hate the Cowboys today. If the team's name ever had to change, I would lose that connection to the team. The only name I can ever accept is Warriors which would both still honor Native Americans and could also honor our troops. That name makes since with the Pentagon being in Washington.

 

[Stymietee]

Money is Fungible. How ever the money he took came directly from something he proclaims to be against. Again if he was so against it, why the pretense of being an impartial Ref?? Why hide how he really felt?? Oh yea because if it was known he might not have gotten the money.

It was Known, the NFL knew it, allowed it, and NEVER objected to it. Because of their support of him and his actions it is clear now that they have taken a position against the team name. Actions being louder than words.

The money coming DIRECTLY from the team is laughable, unless the team (and the league) prints its' own money. Money circulates, therefore we all in fact, could have objections to having money that is paid to us after first being in the hands of persons, or organizations, that we find objectionable.

 

[Sharkinva]

It was Known, the NFL knew it, allowed it, and NEVER objected to it. Because of their support of him and his actions it is clear now that they have taken a position against the team name. Actions being louder than words.

The money coming DIRECTLY from the team is laughable, unless the team (and the league) prints its' own money. Money circulates, therefore we all in fact, could have objections to having money that is paid to us after first being in the hands of persons, or organizations, that we find objectionable.

Sty... once again I call BS. If he had these convictions why not just be out with it. Be up front and publicly State his convictions?? Point two, its very different to say well the money in my pocket MIGHT have been used to do something I would disagree with at some time. Where as to say a part of my paycheck is directly paid by the KKK, and while Im not a fan, I knowingly accept the money, I just will ask my dispatcher to not have me work on any of the KKKs stuff. Some how I doubt this was as widely known in the NFL as you want to believe.

And not to put too fine a point on it but whats laughable is people proclaiming to be die hard fans of the team... but to hate the team name. Try telling your wife "baby I love everything about you.. well except i wish you would change your name because I dont particularly care for it."

Let me know how that goes over please.

 

[Stymietee]

I live in Nebraska and have no connection to the team other than the name Redskins. The Redskins became my team as a young boy only because of the name of the team. The only photo of myself I ever remember seeing was a family vacation photo at Mount Rushmore, in the photo I was being held by a Native American, dressed with a full headdress. It made an impression on me. I have always felt a connection with Native Americans, Geronimo was my hero as a boy. In movies I always cheered for the Indians over the Troops or Cowboys. That's way I love the Redskins and hate the Cowboys today. If the team's name ever had to change, I would lose that connection to the team. The only name I can ever accept is Warriors which would both still honor Native Americans and could also honor our troops. That name makes since with the Pentagon being in Washington.

Good story, I felt and enjoyed your re-telling of your life experience. Isn't it true however that there are other names besides Warriors that would both uphold your memories and in fact crystallize both your connection to native Americans and Geronimo?

Actual names, like Apache, Cherokee, Comanche, Sioux. In fact, Isn't it true that the great warrior himself was indeed an Apache?

 

[Kevin12773]

:argue:

 

[Sharkinva]

:argue:

Come on Kev, we both know a message board where every one agrees is just.......boring.

 

[RedskinzDan]

I highly doubt the PC crowd would ever allow any other name referencing Native Americans at all. So, I was thinking of a name the would indirectly honor the teams history. Washington Apache is not a name I think anyone would sign off on, Arizona maybe, but not Washington.

 

[Stymietee]

Sty... once again I call BS. If he had these convictions why not just be out with it. Be up front and publicly State his convictions?? Point two, its very different to say well the money in my pocket MIGHT have been used to do something I would disagree with at some time. Where as to say a part of my paycheck is directly paid by the KKK, and while Im not a fan, I knowingly accept the money, I just will ask my dispatcher to not have me work on any of the KKKs stuff. Some how I doubt this was as widely known in the NFL as you want to believe.

And not to put too fine a point on it but whats laughable is people proclaiming to be die hard fans of the team... but to hate the team name. Try telling your wife "baby I love everything about you.. well except i wish you would change your name because I dont particularly care for it."

Let me know how that goes over please.

Wow, lots to respond to here, so I'll have at it. In the story he made it clear that because he held to his beliefs, that publicly doing so would have bought unwanted attention to him, his family. That it might have been seen, as an official of games involving this team, as being biased. He did not want to compromise his principals and make calls or call into question calls because of objections against the team name.

One of the quirks of this nation of people is our willingness to not consider origins. In fact some of our citizens have been jailed for not considering where their money comes from.
90 percent of U.S. bills carry traces of cocaine - CNN.com

www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/14/cocaine.traces.money



I didn't say that it was widely known in the NFL (although I do suspect that most owners knew it....no proof). I did say that NFL officialdom knew about it and because they did not deny or fight it, they did in effect support it.

It is laughable, on the reverse of that coin you'll find the argument that people proclaiming to be fans of this team only accept people who support their position with respect to the team name. Since you want to use that analogy, let's do.........Try telling your wife "baby I love everything about you.. well except, everything that you don't agree with me on 100% of the time, I often wish that you would just shut the fuck up, support my position, and don't even think of offering an opinion different from mine."


Let me know how that goes over please!

 

[RedskinzDan]

Now, if Warren Buffet bought the team and moved them to Omaha, which is named after the Omaha tribe. They could be called Omaha Omaha. But I think Peyton Manning has thought rights.

 

[Stymietee]

I highly doubt the PC crowd would ever allow any other name referencing Native Americans at all. So, I was thinking of a name the would indirectly honor the teams history. Washington Apache is not a name I think anyone would sign off on, Arizona maybe, but not Washington.

Interesting!! I am sure that the PC crowd objecting to the name would welcome that name change. Ironically, the PC crowd that you speak of are the ones who Don't want the name change!


PC in the first instance = change the name crowd


PC in the second instance = so called majority against it.

 

[Stymietee]

Now, if Warren Buffet bought the team and moved them to Omaha, which is named after the Omaha tribe. They could be called Omaha Omaha. But I think Peyton Manning has thought rights.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Sharkinva]

Wow, lots to respond to here, so I'll have at it. In the story he made it clear that because he held to his beliefs, that publicly doing so would have bought unwanted attention to him, his family. That it might have been seen, as an official of games involving this team, as being biased. He did not want to compromise his principals and make calls or call into question calls because of objections against the team name.

One of the quirks of this nation of people is our willingness to not consider origins. In fact some of our citizens have been jailed for not considering where their money comes from.
90 percent of U.S. bills carry traces of cocaine - CNN.com

www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/14/cocaine.traces.money



I didn't say that it was widely known in the NFL (although I do suspect that most owners knew it....no proof). I did say that NFL officialdom knew about it and because they did not deny or fight it, they did in effect support it.

It is laughable, on the reverse of that coin you'll find the argument that people proclaiming to be fans of this team only accept people who support their position with respect to the team name. Since you want to use that analogy, let's do.........Try telling your wife "baby I love everything about you.. well except, everything that you don't agree with me on 100% of the time, I often wish that you would just shut the fuck up, support my position, and don't even think of offering an opinion different from mine."


Let me know how that goes over please!

Sty... I will make it easy. If he objected so much, the simple out would have been to say I cant take this job because I object to the team name of the Washington team. There, no chance of ridicule or reprisals against him or his family.

Point two, apparently not many people knew of his stance. The article even hinted that it was a closely kept secret until now ( strange he comes out with this when he is no longer working games)

The difference between our stances is simply this. I have never said or hinted you have no right to be upset over the name because it hurts YOUR feelings. Thats fine. How ever, because something hurts your feelings does not mean I have to stop doing it or in this case using the word. Thats the real problem here. IM not telling you to get over it, you and the PC crowd are though trying to tell me and millions of others that because you find the word offensive, I should find it that way as well.

 

[Kevin12773]

Come on Kev, we both know a message board where every one agrees is just.......boring.

Agree shark but just done with the whole thing since I have no control on whether it changes or not.

 

[Sharkinva]

The bottom line on this comes down to this...


Name Changer stance'''' I dont like the name because I find it to be a demeaning racial slur and as such you should respect my wishes and feeling and change the name


Most of the rest of the world.... You are within your rights to not like the name. You can even not support the team if it offends you that much. But at the end of the day you have no right to try and force me to accept your belief and start feeling bad about it just because you do.

 

[Stymietee]

Sty... I will make it easy. If he objected so much, the simple out would have been to say I cant take this job because I object to the team name of the Washington team. There, no chance of ridicule or reprisals against him or his family.

Point two, apparently not many people knew of his stance. The article even hinted that it was a closely kept secret until now ( strange he comes out with this when he is no longer working games)

The difference between our stances is simply this. I have never said or hinted you have no right to be upset over the name because it hurts YOUR feelings. Thats fine. How ever, because something hurts your feelings does not mean I have to stop doing it or in this case using the word. Thats the real problem here. IM not telling you to get over it, you and the PC crowd are though trying to tell me and millions of others that because you find the word offensive, I should find it that way as well.

A young child is as we speak (sic) is dreaming of his future career, while others are now realizing their own. Who are we to say to either of them, "don't realize your dreams because it is not perfect." instead of....."Follow your dreams and once realized do what you deem best to correct its' imperfections not what others would have you do or not do."

Secondarily, ........a closely kept public secret. Interesting, that a number of current players have adopted the same position. Too easy to say "I support the name" if it is their honest position, rather than take the PC position of "I don't get into that." I wonder what they are holding back?

I am a bit surprised at your response Shark, you and I have on many occasions debated this issue/non issue to be fair. I have vehemently supported and defended your right to your position as well as all others here and elsewhere. Healthy debate is a hallmark of that which unites us, but to lump us all together is as I stated, pretty surprising coming from you.

Finally, about that use of PC.......as the term inplies, it is politically Correct, all others would then be Politically incorrect. It is how we use language that the term came to be. To use it as some sort of filter against the millions who are clear in thought, suggests that, one does so at the cost of facing the ire of millions equally clear in thought but also emotionally moved. that is what makes them incorrect. Take Skinsdad as example, he is consistent when he states that changing the name removes the history. I support his right to that, always have always will........but when he adds that a name change will cause him to select another team, that is a visceral, emotional response. Those responses may or may not be delivered separately, there is no way, however, that they are not connected.

 

[Stymietee]

The bottom line on this comes down to this...


Name Changer stance'''' I dont like the name because I find it to be a demeaning racial slur and as such you should respect my wishes and feeling and change the name


Most of the rest of the world.... You are within your rights to not like the name. You can even not support the team if it offends you that much. But at the end of the day you have no right to try and force me to accept your belief and start feeling bad about it just because you do.

.............................................................OR................................................................


Some of the rest of the world.... I dont like the fact that you don't like the name because you find it to be a demeaning racial slur and as such I should not respect your wishes and feeling about changing the name.


Lots of Name Changers stance.......You are within your rights to not like the name changers. You can even not support the team if our position offends you that much. But at the end of the day you have no right to try and force me to accept your belief and start feeling bad about it just because you do.

 

[Sharkinva]

.............................................................OR................................................................


Some of the rest of the world.... I dont like the fact that you don't like the name because you find it to be a demeaning racial slur and as such I should not respect your wishes and feeling about changing the name.


Lots of Name Changers stance.......You are within your rights to not like the name changers. You can even not support the team if our position offends you that much. But at the end of the day you have no right to try and force me to accept your belief and start feeling bad about it just because you do.

See dude, thats the thing you refuse to accept. NO one is saying you dont have a right to be upset. No one is saying you have to like accept or even embrace the name.

Flip side is you totally support the concept that because YOU feel its a racial slur everyone should accept it as such and hence the name should be changed. And since you couldnt guilt the owner into changing it, well lets resort to legal bullying to make him change it. And you dont see the hypocrisy in this?? I want everyone to be accepting and understanding... but if you dont agree with MY point of view, I will just force you to accept it and do what I want any way.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

The bottom line on this comes down to this...


Name Changer stance'''' I dont like the name because I find it to be a demeaning racial slur and as such you should respect my wishes and feeling and change the name


Most of the rest of the world.... You are within your rights to not like the name. You can even not support the team if it offends you that much. But at the end of the day you have no right to try and force me to accept your belief and start feeling bad about it just because you do.

Couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Stymietee]

See dude, thats the thing you refuse to accept. NO one is saying you dont have a right to be upset. No one is saying you have to like accept or even embrace the name.

Flip side is you totally support the concept that because YOU feel its a racial slur everyone should accept it as such and hence the name should be changed. And since you couldnt guilt the owner into changing it, well lets resort to legal bullying to make him change it. And you dont see the hypocrisy in this?? I want everyone to be accepting and understanding... but if you dont agree with MY point of view, I will just force you to accept it and do what I want any way.

No more or less than the hypocrisy in those who refuse to see it in its' historical light. George P. Marshal did not name the team to honor anyone or anything. Much like Buffalo Bill his was a marketing ploy. He also didn't name the team in recent years relatively speaking. In his time the name was as racist as Heyboy (Palladin) or Tonto (1930's 1960's Lone Ranger). Then there's this excerpt from a historical piece entitled,

"Are You Ready For Some Controversy? The History Of 'Redskin'"

"In 1915, (My note: Marshall would have been 15y/o) the poet Earl Emmons released Redskin Rimes, a book so offensive I had to double-check to make sure it wasn't a parody of the racism of that era. Emmons makes his intentions clear in the introduction of the work: "Those persons who got their idea of the Indian from Mr. Cooper have pictured him as an injured innocent. ... Those persons have acquired the wrong idea of the maroon brother." That introduction kicks off a series of poems, songs and speeches, each more offensive than the last.
Emmons' book was emblematic of the usage of the word "redskins" in the late 1800s and early 1900s, as the word went from being an identifying term to a derogatory slur. By the 1910s, it wasn't uncommon for filmgoers to encounter it, with the word frequently popping up in the titles of American Westerns."

You can choose to believe the team narrative if you like, I don't really care, but here is what the team narrative fails to tell you even though their position is almost entirely based on the yarn about honoring the teams coach and players. Don't believe me?............Ask George Preston Marshall!!!


The 81-Year-Old Newspaper Article That Destroys The ...

thinkprogress.org/.../redskins-founder-i-didnt-name-team-...




God forgive me for using the name.......in this instance it was unavoidable!!