Is LeBron James better than Michael Jordan?

[DorianRo]

We'll see how much Lebron trusts his team in the finals against a QUALITY team for a change. I always said Lebron's mistake was NOT going to the West. Playing a bunch of tomato can opposition doesn't get you prepared for the big stage against the big dogs.

If he went out west he may have been greater because he would have been battle hardened like MJ.

 

[msgkings322]

We'll see how much Lebron trusts his team in the finals against a QUALITY team for a change. I always said Lebron's mistake was NOT going to the West. Playing a bunch of tomato can opposition doesn't get you prepared for the big stage against the big dogs.

If he went out west he may have been greater because he would have been battle hardened like MJ.

I'm not in any way joking when I say that I am extremely impressed with how you come up with new ways to be an idiot here. Seriously, well done.

 

[wazzu31]

I disagree that it doesn't even out. Just because MJ was on the better team, doesn't change the fact that he faced tougher teams to get to the finals.

And perhaps MJ had better teams because he's the better player.

I still disagree that Jordan was ever on a good team. Sure Phil is considered a great coach though he never accomplished anything without the best players in the game, but the Bulls teams weren't special. Scotty Pippen is the most overrated player in the history of sports. He had 2 chances on his own without MJ and floundered. Put him on any other team in the 90's and no one would even know his name.

 

[trojanfan12]

I still disagree that Jordan was ever on a good team. Sure Phil is considered a great coach though he never accomplished anything without the best players in the game, but the Bulls teams weren't special. Scotty Pippen is the most overrated player in the history of sports. He had 2 chances on his own without MJ and floundered. Put him on any other team in the 90's and no one would even know his name.

I'm no Pippen fan. But he was a legit Hall of Famer. He took the Bulls to the ECF when MJ was out.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

We'll see how much Lebron trusts his team in the finals against a QUALITY team for a change. I always said Lebron's mistake was NOT going to the West. Playing a bunch of tomato can opposition doesn't get you prepared for the big stage against the big dogs.

If he went out west he may have been greater because he would have been battle hardened like MJ.

MJ played against garbage

He couldn't beat the great Celtics or Pistons until the end of their runs, and until Pippen

His greatest comp was a Knicks team that called Jon Starks their 2nd best player

 

[DorianRo]

I'm not in any way joking when I say that I am extremely impressed with how you come up with new ways to be an idiot here. Seriously, well done.

Sorry but playing a bunch of tomato can east teams ever year is NO good preparation when you have to play someone of QUALITY coming out of the West. Its why his Finals record is so shitty

 

[larryjohn]

Uh, none of this disputes anything I said.
In fact, it proves me right. MJ started winning titles when he started treating his teammates better and trusting them.
In other words...his being on the court made his teammates better because the opponents were focused on him and guys got open looks.
Once he figured that out, he started winning titles.

So you agree the first 7 years of his career that "he wasn't like Bird & Magic -- but didn't make the players around him better" ?

That was what I originally said.

Your recent posts sound different from your earlier one.

- - - -
That was before people figured out that he made the players around him better by his presence on the court.
He demanded so much attention from other teams that if left his teammates with open looks.
So, he didn't do it like Magic and Bird, but the end result was the same...guys getting open looks.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The LeBron/Jordan debate is the last one left.

I think its clear LeBron has superseded everyone not named Jordan at this point.

 

[trojanfan12]

So you agree the first 7 years of his career that "he wasn't like Bird & Magic -- but didn't make the players around him better" ?

That was what I originally said.

Your recent posts sound different from your earlier one.

- - - -
That was before people figured out that he made the players around him better by his presence on the court.
He demanded so much attention from other teams that if left his teammates with open looks.
So, he didn't do it like Magic and Bird, but the end result was the same...guys getting open looks.

Nothing different. It took him awhile to learn that he couldn't get where he wanted to go by himself. Once he figured that out, he started trusting his teammates to help.

The perception that he always tried to win by himself lasted for several years after he had started trusting his teammates. In fact, it stretched into his first retirement.

Again, he never made the players around him better in the way that Magic and Bird did. He never became a pass first guy. But he figured out (or maybe more accurately, was convinced by Phil) that by just being on the court, he got his teammates open looks.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I still disagree that Jordan was ever on a good team. Sure Phil is considered a great coach though he never accomplished anything without the best players in the game, but the Bulls teams weren't special. Scotty Pippen is the most overrated player in the history of sports. He had 2 chances on his own without MJ and floundered. Put him on any other team in the 90's and no one would even know his name.

I mean, the Bulls won playoff series' without Jordan.

Without LeBron the Cavs and Heat turned to crap.

 

[DorianRo]

Jordan made Pippen what he was. Jordan's teams were good but care to take a wild guess who is gonna play with more All/stars and HOFers?? All the while as we all know Jordan's East competition was ALWAYS better than Lebron's. This is not even disputable.

If we swap Lebron out with MJ, Jordan would have a 7-3 or a 6-4 Finals record roughly while LeFraud will be 3-6 after this year. ROFLMAO. Dude can;'t even maintain a positive Finals record. Gimme a break

Cant believe this nonsense discussion is going on. Must be Lebron is in the finals again after beating a host of tomato cans once again this year only to get his ass handed to him Once again in the finals.

Of course Lebron fan logic is "2nd place is good is good enough "

 

[WiggyRuss]

Why I think we can put LeBron over Magic solidly:

LeBron career games: 1143 regular season games played, 235 playoff games played

Magic career games: 906 regular season games played, 190 playoff games played

Career regular season stats LeBron: 27.2 ppg, 7.2 apg, 7.4 rpg, 50.4% field goal, 34.4% 3 pt,
Career regular season stats Magic: 19.5 ppg, 11.2 apg, 7.2 rpg, 52.0% field goal, 30.3% 3 pt

Career playoff LeBron: 28.8 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 7.0 apg, 49.0% shooting, 33.2% from 3
Career playoff Magic: 19.5 ppg, 12.3 apg, 7.7 rpg, 50.6% shooting, 24.1% from 3

Playoff buzzer beaters: LeBron an NBA Record 5--- Magic i could not find one-- does any laker fan know if Magic had any buzzer beaters in the playoffs? Was the skyhook a buzzer beater? i didn't think so but was not sure.

NBA Titles: LeBron 3, Magic 5
Finals MVP's: LeBron 3, Magic 3
Regular Season MVP's: LeBron 4, Magic 3
All Star Games: LeBron 14 , Magic 12
All Defensive teams: LeBron 6 times, Magic 0 times
All NBA Teams: LeBron 12 time first team 2 time 2nd team , Magic 9 Time 1st team and 1 time 2nd team

Totals:
Points- LeBron: 31,038 Magic: 17,707
Assists- LeBron: 8,208 Magic: 10,141
Rebounds- LeBron 8,415 Magic: 6,559

5 Best PER Seasons:

LeBron: 31.7, 31.6, 31.1, 30.7, 29.1 (avg. PER 27.7)
Magic: 27.0, 26.9, 26.6, 25.7, 25.1 (avg. PER of 24.1)

Misc.
LeBron won ROY, Magic 2nd to Bird
Each have been to the NBA Finals 9 times
Each could play any position on the court

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Jordan made Pippen what he was. Jordan's teams were good but care to take a wild guess who is gonna play with more All/stars and HOFers?? All the while as we all know Jordan's East competition was ALWAYS better than Lebron's. This is not even disputable.

If we swap Lebron out with MJ, Jordan would have a 7-3 or a 6-4 Finals record roughly while LeFraud will be 3-6 after this year. ROFLMAO. Dude can;'t even maintain a positive Finals record. Gimme a break

Cant believe this nonsense discussion is going on. Must be Lebron is in the finals again after beating a host of tomato cans once again this year only to get his ass handed to him Once again in the finals.

Of course Lebron fan logic is "2nd place is good is good enough "

Not even disputable in your delusional mind my man

The Knicks were a tough hard nosed team, built around one HOF player and some slug as their second most reliable scorer, youre lying to yourself if you dont think Lebron has run into as good or far better than the one team that gave Jordan teams the most trouble

You crack me up, who was stopping Lebron from that day on those teams? Bill F**** Lambier? Rick Mahorn? Guys like that would be grabbing their knees by the middle of the 1st quarter trying to guard him

 

[Rambunctious]

Lebron is better at pushing off and charging.....

 

[CitySushi]

The LeBron/Jordan debate is the last one left.

I think its clear LeBron has superseded everyone not named Jordan at this point.

IMO, Kareem is still #2 for me. I got Jordan, Kareem, Lebron as the top 3, Magic 4 and then the rest of my top 10 rotate daily, depending on my mood, lol.

 

[WiggyRuss]

IMO, Kareem is still #2 for me. I got Jordan, Kareem, Lebron as the top 3, Magic 4 and then the rest of my top 10 rotate daily, depending on my mood, lol.

I have LeBron 2.....

Its funny- Kareem has the longevity but not the peak to be #2--- while Magic has the peak, but not the longevity...

LeBron has both- and thats why i have him #2.

but honestly- i still think a semi-reasonable argument can be made for Magic and Kareem though that argument is getting less and less reasonable year by year.

 

[Black Adam]

Lebron is better at pushing off and charging.....

flopping like a fish outta water should be somewhere on that list...

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Kareem kicked Bruce Lees ass

 

[WiggyRuss]

Not even disputable in your delusional mind my man

The Knicks were a tough hard nosed team, built around one HOF player and some slug as their second most reliable scorer, youre lying to yourself if you dont think Lebron has run into as good or far better than the one team that gave Jordan teams the most trouble

You crack me up, who was stopping Lebron from that day on those teams? Bill F**** Lambier? Rick Mahorn? Guys like that would be grabbing their knees by the middle of the 1st quarter trying to guard him

LeBron's greatness really does play against him at times.

I mean his first year in Cleveland he faced a 60 win Hawks team and just destroyed them. That Hawks team with 4 all stars was arguably just as good or better than any Eastern Conference foe that Jordan ever beat in the East.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

LeBron's greatness really does play against him at times.

I mean his first year in Cleveland he faced a 60 win Hawks team and just destroyed them. That Hawks team with 4 all stars was arguably just as good or better than any Eastern Conference foe that Jordan ever beat in the East.

Everyone just revises history when it comes to Jordan, he missed (or lost to) the great versions of the Celtics, Lakers and Pistons

His dominant years was Ewings Knicks, Millers Pacers, hardly some all time tough road to the Finals