Free agents galore

[Redsfan1507]

I heard in the radio the Reds signed Skip Shumaker- 2b/of. Not exactly a bad player- no power or speed- a better 2 hitter than Cozart (so was Marge Schott), but not exactly the impact player I was hoping for.

 

[JohnU]

Having Skippy and Hannahan seems a bit redundant, though Skippy is probably an outfielder.
I hope this is the hinge for some kind of trade but Hannahan doesn't seem like the sort of guy who is going to fetch the next Aroldis Chapman. Cheap is cheap, experience is experience. Can't say it's a bad move. The top guys just don't get traded and the top FA are going to try to break the bank this winter. The FA list is amazingly long. This probably depends on who has who for an agent. Some GM's tell some agents to go take a flying leap.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Cano traded Boras for Jay Z. That's like going to court without F. Lee Bailey, and with Jesse Jackson... Wont help him win, but might get him lots of press, so he can write a book while serving his guilty sentence. Choo is going to get a big deal, McCann is going to be grossly overpaid, and lots of Ludwick's are going to quietly make 2 year overpriced deals out of 3 months of earning a salary they really deserved.

Everyone was happy with Luddy making $2M and BP making $7M. Now neither is happy making many times more, and we probably won't be either. The farm is where it's at...young, healthy, hungry and affordable. The current MLB pay scheme is like paying $100/ mo the first year of a new car payment, and $1100/mo after it has 100,000 miles in the last year of the loan. Trying selling one used that way...

 

[JohnU]

The Tigs offloading Prince Planet is an intriguing component to the winter season. I didn't think the so-called "blockbuster" was likely -- though this hardly qualifies as one of the great trades in recent history. We all know Todd Redmond for Paul Janish is the gold standard there.

But Detroit was a place where I figured Brandon Phillips might go if Banana Bob still carried a grudge. That doesn't seem likely now, does it?

With so many free agents, most of whom just rearrange the chairs on the Titanic, it still seems like the agents are going to have plenty of work this winter.

I still don't see anybody who can really help the Reds on the FA wire. Organizational depth helps, but these are MLB seasoned players who won't sign a minor-league deal or wait for a spot on the 25-man, let alone the 40-man.

 

[WvuDieHard]

The reds will compete with this roster but they are going to have to hit better. Any word on a batting coach? Certainly Jerkoby has been booted right? I have not heard anything about the Dustbucket gang of three. Are they gone?

 

[eburg5000]

Did someone say Choo is looking for a 100 million + contract? Or was that just an exaggerated speculation. Choo is a good player, 285 batting avg, 21 home runs, and 54 RBI's, But that's not 100 Million good!

 

[Tubbs1518]

Chop is looking for more than the Werth contract an it was 7 years/$126 million

 

[eburg5000]

I believe Choo is 31 years old. do you or anybody else here believe he is worth that kind of money? I don't, but I'm sure some team will. It's hard to gauge what teams will pay for a player like Choo.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I don't think anyone in MLB is worth what they're making, and that the only ones that wouldn't play for $250k / yr if that's all it paid, would be guys that could get more in the NFL, NBA or selling crack at home.

But...they say you are worth what the market will bear, and that means Choo will get more than the Reds market can bear.

On the flip side if that, I think Mr. Phillips and Mr. Castellini might just have to live up ( I hesitate to use the term "honor") to the deal they signed, which at the time was what the market for a gold glove .267 would beat...even though BP thinks he deserves .300/25/100/100 stat money now. Lots of teams would like to have BP if they didnt owe him $60 million, even if BP thinks it should be twice that much.

I see no apparent reason for the Reds to eat a lot of that and trade him for a couple prospects to be released later, or for someone else's $60M headache. BP might just have to stay in the Nati.

 

[Tubbs1518]

Trading Philips for prospects would be stupid. If we trade him we have to get a bat back. Whether that be LF or 3rd base, a bat has to return. Then the question becomes who plays 2nd? Infante is a FA, but I want to say this past year he had one of the lowest contact % of his career and he isn't getting any younger. Would he really be worth the deal we'd be giving him? Unless we get a great deal for Phillips, there is no reason to trade him. Trading Leake or Bailey seems like a much better idea IMO. Keep Phillips, bat him in the 2 hole. Trade one of our pitchers and maybe a prospect for a LF or a 3B. If Hamilton isn't ready we have to find a CF and lead off guy. Idk who is available that could fit that role. This team just needs a few tweaks here and there and they are WS contenders again. Spending 130 mil over 7 years on a 31 year old isn't one of them though IMO.

 

[JohnU]

I agree that just offloading BP's contract is pointless. Eventually everybody will have a contract. The objective eventually is to win and the Reds don't really have any new excuses.


If there is no upgrade in the offense, then why trade the offense away? We have what we think is a better hitting coach and a better dugout strategy. I remain skeptical.

If the Reds want to offload BP's contract, it tells me a lot about their objectives. Too many people say too many things about the guy and he needs to stop acting like he's the center of the baseball universe. We like how he plays. Usually.

But I agree with Tubbs. The idea that the Reds will somehow find a 2B or a CF ... after they trade Phillips ... I've looked at the FA list ... there are a LOT of Skip Schumakers on that list.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Everyone is available at the right price. IMO, Phillips is the only guy that thinks he's worth more than he's getting paid now, and I don't think there is any GM smart enough to keep his job that is going to trade a better hitter than Phillips for Phillips. I say, he stays because of that, unless he makes himself so negative an influence they can't stomach him any longer, and I think that is unlikely, because that would only make him even more untradeable. Like a bad car payment, hes more affordable to dump in the last year of a 5 year loan than the 2nd year, if he will actually run until then.

Personally, I don't believe the Reds can win without another bat even if BP stays, and Hamilton hits .250. They didnt win with Choo and Phillips last year, regardless if Bruce's best season and Votto set a Teds record for on base. I also don't believe Ludwick or Frazier are suddenly going to be the bat they need. If this team doesn't trade a pitcher for a hitter, and get a LHSP in the rotation, they can't do as well as they did last year.

 

[JohnU]

Arguably, the Reds did win last year with Choo and Phillips -- just not enough at the end. They needed to play better to accomplish that.

So they have to at least replace Choo's numbers, which could happen if a hitting coach adds 2 hits a week to Frazier's and Cozart's numbers. Hamilton has to have a .300 OBP to be useful. That's possible, I suppose -- if he learns to take a walk.

 

[WvuDieHard]

In the meantime, the Cards just keep beefing up for the future while the Reds stand around with their dick in their hand.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Last year the Reds said they "were all in" before the season began. I think a lot of fans misinterpreted that statement as meaning there was more payroll room to add pieces later. "All in" means you have no more, you've already pushed all your chips into the center of the table. When things don't go as planned, options aren't favorable.

The deals the Reds went with last season were mostly multiple year deals, Ludwick for 2 years and a option, Broxton for three, Hanahan for two and a option, combined with the Phillips deal the year before and they're still stuck in the same "All in" hand they dealt themselves last season from a payroll perspective.

I don't see any help coming via free agent acquisitions, they seem to be positioning themselves for a trade. They have four catchers on the 40 man roster and have 40 players on the list currently not counting the S.S Schumaker who will have to be added sometime soon, so someone is going to be dropped or traded.

 

[JohnU]

Reds filled in the 40-man this week so it would seem that a trade is in the works.
Evidently it's Hanigan, who would have to yield some sort of position player.
There could be a two-fer trade, I suppose. I expect the Reds to get at least one new roster face very soon. That would be before the free agent signings dry up. Hanigan to Atlanta? Seems likely now.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Schumaker requires the Reds to drop or trade one player. The current 40 man roster has only one shortstop on it, so there's one forthcoming additional spot that'll have to be cleared to make room for a back-up.

I'd agree Hanigan would appear to be one of the more likely candidates for a trade. Other obvious candidates from the 40 man based on options remaining are prospects D. Lutz, N. Soto, and H. Rodriguez. Each of them have one option year left and you'd have to think they'll be in Louisville to start next season burning their last option year. Derrick Robinson may have burned his last option year when he was sent down last August before being recalled in September. None of them look to play a major role in the Reds' future plans and wouldn't net much in return.

 

[WvuDieHard]

Meantime the Cards sign Paralta ( Mr. PED) and further bolster an already potent lineup.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I'm not impressed with Peralta, even with PED's... especially for $52M. He has the range if a tree stump, and is a .250-.270 streak hitter that might hit 12-15HR. He is also past prime. If Cozart could raise his BA about 10 points, he'd blow Peralta away as a SS, and he'll make $500K next year. The Cardinals D isn't great anyway, they win by getting on base at a ridiculous pace and moving runners, and pitching enough to get the W.

Dunno what Bourjos buys them other than a decent glove and a Drew Stubbs-ish base stealer when and if he gets on. The Freese moce does open a 2b spot for Wong- another base stealer. I do like their flexibility though-Peralta can play SS-3b-LF, Carpenter 2b-3b, Craig can play 1b-Of..if his injury doesn't relegate him for 1b only- unfortunate for them if it does, because Adams looks like a bat they'd like to use more. At any rate, the Cardinals look like they still have plenty to contend.

I'm still waiting for the Reds to make a move that makes me feel better about them having a plan...better than the one I see currently.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

I'd have to agree with 1507's assessment of the Cards.

Peralta, though a slight upgrade at SS, at $52M seems like a bad deal to me. Bourjos is pretty much just a defensive upgrade. If Craig can't be moved to the RF due to the foot issue to make room for Adams at 1B, the loss of Beltran will hurt their line-up. Then it comes down to whether Wong at 2b is a more productive bat than Freese was at 3B. They have a lot of young pitching and young pitchers aren't always better the second year through the league.

Regardless of any of those factors, the Cards are still better positioned than the Reds at the moment. Hard to imagine a move that will turn the table on that situation going into the 2014 season.