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Series Thread: 2024 Bengals draft

Cincyfan78

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The more I read about Matt Lee the C from Miami, the Bengals might have found something.

Highest graded center in CFB last year. Pretty good RAS testing scores too. Not the biggest or strongest but gets the job done.

Will be interesting to watch in camp.
Thought the same thing - would think they would work to get him about 10-15lbs bigger...if he could add some weight, he could easily be a guy to watch.
 

DanBengalfan

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One thing I've learned about the draft is that some of the players who we think are going to make it don't, and some of the players we don't think are going to make it do. Unless you spend hours upon hours watching college football, you're just taking someone elses word for it. (I think the Bengals have been guilty of this in the past)

Tom Brady is the winningest QB of all time, and he was a 6th rounder.
Kurt Warner was undrafted, as well as other players who went on to have NFL success.

being placed in the wrong place at the wrong time, or not having the maturity and health to do the work can also lead to a player not making it.

Hopefully, the Bengals have left most of their ignorant ways behind, it seems like it.
 

Cincyfan78

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One thing I've learned about the draft is that some of the players who we think are going to make it don't, and some of the players we don't think are going to make it do. Unless you spend hours upon hours watching college football, you're just taking someone elses word for it. (I think the Bengals have been guilty of this in the past)

Tom Brady is the winningest QB of all time, and he was a 6th rounder.
Kurt Warner was undrafted, as well as other players who went on to have NFL success.

being placed in the wrong place at the wrong time, or not having the maturity and health to do the work can also lead to a player not making it.

Hopefully, the Bengals have left most of their ignorant ways behind, it seems like it.
All you can do is make the best picks at the time with the available information you have.

Every player is a crapshoot because every player is just 1 injury away from never really living up to their potential.

I think, at the time of these picks, for the most part - they got it right. They filled needs, didn't overtly over reach, and got great value. That's really all any team can hope for. Now the rest is up to the player, and the staff, to develop them and get them where they think they can be.
 

cincygrad

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All you can do is make the best picks at the time with the available information you have.

Every player is a crapshoot because every player is just 1 injury away from never really living up to their potential.

I think, at the time of these picks, for the most part - they got it right. They filled needs, didn't overtly over reach, and got great value. That's really all any team can hope for. Now the rest is up to the player, and the staff, to develop them and get them where they think they can be.
Good mix between potential and peformance. A lot of good college football players with some questions about how it translates. That is, you can worry about Kri Jenkins pass rush, but you can't discount his presence an impact on his unit in the college game. You can worry about Burton's 10-cent head, but you can't discount his YPR and what he brings on the field. Even in the later rounds - There are some physical questions about the corner from TCU or Lee the Center. But both guys were good football players - Not necessarily a project.
 

Cincyfan78

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Good mix between potential and peformance. A lot of good college football players with some questions about how it translates. That is, you can worry about Kri Jenkins pass rush, but you can't discount his presence an impact on his unit in the college game. You can worry about Burton's 10-cent head, but you can't discount his YPR and what he brings on the field. Even in the later rounds - There are some physical questions about the corner from TCU or Lee the Center. But both guys were good football players - Not necessarily a project.
Right - and even the ones that have the mix, you see the fit at the NFL level.

Worry about Jenkins ability to pass-rush, but don't dismiss his likely impact on the run game. Place him next to the NT - and you've got two DT's that are going to be very, very tough to run up the middle on. Let's not forget Rankins in that mix, as well.

You can worry about Burton's off-field issues, and that is legit, but you can't dismiss his likely impact in stretching defenses with his ability to get down the field, and separate. He was a 1st round talent.

Mims is really the only high draft that doesn't have that mix, but only because of a lack of experience. But notice that his lack of experience was really because he sat behind 2 all-league guys who are now in the NFL, and despite his limited reps - was a shut-down OT in his reps - and his first starts were in the playoff/championship against OSU/TCU.

Going to be an interesting draft to follow and see how they develop.
 

Cincyfan78

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Maybe the issue is more about identifying talent - not so much development. I mean, guys have to have the talent to develop into whatever kind of player you/they think they should be. Looking at this list...it's really a who's who of guys who were taken too early, IMO...

Five highest OL draft picks given Frank Pollack as Cincinnati Bengals OL coach....2018.......2021-present.
1st round, 2024, 18th pick, Amarius Mims
1st round, 2018, 21st pick, Billy Price (was never high on him)
2nd round, 2021, 46th pick, Jackson Carman (taken at least 1 round too soon, but was clearly a guard from the get go, the OT experiment was dumb).
4th round, 2022, 136th pick, Cordell Volson (jury is still out - 2nd half of last year was pretty good).
4th round, 2021, 139th pick, D'Ante Smith (was always a project/developmental guy)
 

Cincyfan78

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Though - I will say this - Price was a guy that many would have missed on. His pre-draft profile was pretty good. Not sure exactly what it was that didn't allow him to make that next jump - but I remember at the time - I wasn't keen on taking a C there....
 

DanBengalfan

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Maybe the issue is more about identifying talent - not so much development. I mean, guys have to have the talent to develop into whatever kind of player you/they think they should be. Looking at this list...it's really a who's who of guys who were taken too early, IMO...

Five highest OL draft picks given Frank Pollack as Cincinnati Bengals OL coach....2018.......2021-present.
1st round, 2024, 18th pick, Amarius Mims
1st round, 2018, 21st pick, Billy Price (was never high on him)
2nd round, 2021, 46th pick, Jackson Carman (taken at least 1 round too soon, but was clearly a guard from the get go, the OT experiment was dumb).
4th round, 2022, 136th pick, Cordell Volson (jury is still out - 2nd half of last year was pretty good).
4th round, 2021, 139th pick, D'Ante Smith (was always a project/developmental guy)

holding out hope Volson and Carman can show those glimpses of ability that we've seen in the past. Just seems like there are defenders who studied them well enough to take advantage.
 

Cincyfan78

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holding out hope Volson and Carman can show those glimpses of ability that we've seen in the past. Just seems like there are defenders who studied them well enough to take advantage.
I don't recall all the numbers - but last year Volson started off as one of the worst 5 IOL in the NFL. Then around week 7 or so, he turned a corner and was much, much better. He had a stretch where his pass blocking grade was 84, which was 6th best in the NFL through that stretch.

I am cautiously optimistic that the light is finally turning on.

Carmen - the knock on him has always been work ethic to reach that next level, and I think that continues to be the case. He was also a bit of a let down towards the end of his college days, and was clearly never going to be an OT at this level...Bengals mis-evaluated this one, IMO.
 

cincygrad

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Right - and even the ones that have the mix, you see the fit at the NFL level.

Worry about Jenkins ability to pass-rush, but don't dismiss his likely impact on the run game. Place him next to the NT - and you've got two DT's that are going to be very, very tough to run up the middle on. Let's not forget Rankins in that mix, as well.

You can worry about Burton's off-field issues, and that is legit, but you can't dismiss his likely impact in stretching defenses with his ability to get down the field, and separate. He was a 1st round talent.

Mims is really the only high draft that doesn't have that mix, but only because of a lack of experience. But notice that his lack of experience was really because he sat behind 2 all-league guys who are now in the NFL, and despite his limited reps - was a shut-down OT in his reps - and his first starts were in the playoff/championship against OSU/TCU.

Going to be an interesting draft to follow and see how they develop.
From a football standpoint, I have no worries about Mims. A guy with his size and athleticism will figure it out and he has a lot of room for error. The guys that have missed were normally missing either size or athleticism. Having both would make it hard to not at least be average or above. The only thing you can't account for is injuries. The only real red flag is injury history. But the history is really just with a bad ankle - He had surgery, came back and then hurt it again. This isn't abnormal for ankle injuries. The key for him will be to work with trainers to try to prevent soft tissue injuries. I'd be more worried if the guy had knee or back issues given his size.
 

Cincyfan78

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From a football standpoint, I have no worries about Mims. A guy with his size and athleticism will figure it out and he has a lot of room for error. The guys that have missed were normally missing either size or athleticism. Having both would make it hard to not at least be average or above. The only thing you can't account for is injuries. The only real red flag is injury history. But the history is really just with a bad ankle - He had surgery, came back and then hurt it again. This isn't abnormal for ankle injuries. The key for him will be to work with trainers to try to prevent soft tissue injuries. I'd be more worried if the guy had knee or back issues given his size.
I think he came back a bit too quick on the tightrope surgery. He tried to play 6 weeks after...it was always a long-shot. That's on the low end of the spectrum, and while maybe he's not a RB/WR type guy, putting 340lbs on an ankle is asking a lot...lol

Agreed, though...his floor is very high, which is a good thing.
 

Cincyfan78

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I absolutely love the Burton pick. I get his past and there are issues to work through. If there is a locker room that can provide the leadership and accountability he is going to need, it's the Bengals with Burrow, Chase, etc...

This gives the Bengals 2 legit guys, heck really 3 if you put Jones out there, that can just fly by the defense. You start staggering him and Chase on opposite sides - and you can't just bubble cover Chase anymore.
 

cincygrad

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I absolutely love the Burton pick. I get his past and there are issues to work through. If there is a locker room that can provide the leadership and accountability he is going to need, it's the Bengals with Burrow, Chase, etc...

This gives the Bengals 2 legit guys, heck really 3 if you put Jones out there, that can just fly by the defense. You start staggering him and Chase on opposite sides - and you can't just bubble cover Chase anymore.
As much as I love what Boyd brought to the Bengals over the years, his lack of speed and explosion limited what the Bengals could do in the middle of the field. He also didn't have any versatility to play as an outside threat which would allow Chase to move into the slot more to create match-up issues. It was clear watching other NFL teams use more athletic players in the slot that this is a way to beat modern zone defenses.... Flowers from Baltimore and Dell from Houston were good right away. Burton isn't a true slot - But he can play any of the three positions which allows the Bengals to be multiple. Throw in Gisecki and they have added some unique pieces that should stress the D if schemed correctly. Between the added speed (Chase Brown included) and improvements in offensive line, this is the most explosive version of the Bengals offense since Burrow has been with the team. Now we need to see how Pitcher puts it together and how Zac calls it.
 

Cincyfan78

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As much as I love what Boyd brought to the Bengals over the years, his lack of speed and explosion limited what the Bengals could do in the middle of the field. He also didn't have any versatility to play as an outside threat which would allow Chase to move into the slot more to create match-up issues. It was clear watching other NFL teams use more athletic players in the slot that this is a way to beat modern zone defenses.... Flowers from Baltimore and Dell from Houston were good right away. Burton isn't a true slot - But he can play any of the three positions which allows the Bengals to be multiple. Throw in Gisecki and they have added some unique pieces that should stress the D if schemed correctly. Between the added speed (Chase Brown included) and improvements in offensive line, this is the most explosive version of the Bengals offense since Burrow has been with the team. Now we need to see how Pitcher puts it together and how Zac calls it.
100% agreed. I mentioned more than once last year the lack of middle-field targets. When they were able to move Chase around and get him targets over the middle - the offense opened up. Boyd simply was not bringing that ability to the offense any longer.

Burton, and Jones (don't forget he missed time last year with the broken wrist) will allow this offense to be way more multiple with 3 guys who can absolutely take the top off the defense - and still have Higgins as your big bodied, High point catch guy.
 

cincygrad

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100% agreed. I mentioned more than once last year the lack of middle-field targets. When they were able to move Chase around and get him targets over the middle - the offense opened up. Boyd simply was not bringing that ability to the offense any longer.

Burton, and Jones (don't forget he missed time last year with the broken wrist) will allow this offense to be way more multiple with 3 guys who can absolutely take the top off the defense - and still have Higgins as your big bodied, High point catch guy.
It's also telling that Pittsburgh and KC won't sign Boyd.... Not sure what his demands are, but nobody wants to give him very much.
 

CrashDavisSports

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It's also telling that Pittsburgh and KC won't sign Boyd.... Not sure what his demands are, but nobody wants to give him very much.
I read his demands were 3 years for $27 million. Pittsburgh is offering him $5 million a year for 2 years.
 

Cincyfan78

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I read his demands were 3 years for $27 million. Pittsburgh is offering him $5 million a year for 2 years.
No way. He's 29 now, and will turn 30 before the season ends.

It's pretty evident, at least to me, that his best days are behind him. A 3 year deal would take him through age 32. If he's already started to drop off now, there's no way he'll be useful in 2 more seasons.

IMO - it just looked like he really struggled to get open consistently. He should have been a guy that was able to take advantage of that middle being open as teams rotated coverage to Chase and then Higgins.

He had more receptions and targets this year, but nearly 100 less yards than last year (and played in 1 more game). Second lowest yards where he played more than 10 games. His YPC were his lowest of his career. His 1st down catches were also 2nd worst (and in his 2nd year where he only played 10 games).

His best game was against Houston where he had 8 catches on 12 targets for 117 yards, but also included a 67 yard catch and run. In no other game did he go for more than 60, and only had more than 50 four times.

Love what Tyler brought to this team - loved that he was a guy that helped to build this foundation up. I wish he were about 2 years younger so he could enjoy more of this offense with Burrow...but, the writing is simply on the wall, IMO. He'd be a great veteran add to a young room, but would be a 3rd/4th option at best - and certainly isn't worth much more than a 2 year deal, in which a team could simply walk away after the 1st year with little to no cap consequence.
 

cincygrad

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No way. He's 29 now, and will turn 30 before the season ends.

It's pretty evident, at least to me, that his best days are behind him. A 3 year deal would take him through age 32. If he's already started to drop off now, there's no way he'll be useful in 2 more seasons.

IMO - it just looked like he really struggled to get open consistently. He should have been a guy that was able to take advantage of that middle being open as teams rotated coverage to Chase and then Higgins.

He had more receptions and targets this year, but nearly 100 less yards than last year (and played in 1 more game). Second lowest yards where he played more than 10 games. His YPC were his lowest of his career. His 1st down catches were also 2nd worst (and in his 2nd year where he only played 10 games).

His best game was against Houston where he had 8 catches on 12 targets for 117 yards, but also included a 67 yard catch and run. In no other game did he go for more than 60, and only had more than 50 four times.

Love what Tyler brought to this team - loved that he was a guy that helped to build this foundation up. I wish he were about 2 years younger so he could enjoy more of this offense with Burrow...but, the writing is simply on the wall, IMO. He'd be a great veteran add to a young room, but would be a 3rd/4th option at best - and certainly isn't worth much more than a 2 year deal, in which a team could simply walk away after the 1st year with little to no cap consequence.
Ironic that his best game was also a game that he basically lost for the team by dropping a game-winning touchdown.
 
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