2014 Offseason Plans Thread

[Windingmywatch]

my comment was that i was in favor of spending the money to bring someone in if it meant us winning.

but to answer your question: in the long run i think that Garza would give us a better chance of winning that Tepesche. i don't think Tepesche would last any longer than he did this season and then we would be searching for someone to step in and fill his roster spot.

Again ... so how does Garza improve the winning potential? And you leave out the part where Garza missed April through most of May. So how is he Mr. Ironman ... and Tepesch in our opinion isn't? And ... Tepesch was on strategic DL. There simply wasn't room to bring him back and TEX did not want him down at AAA because then the DL rehab clock would be ticking.

 

[scotsman1948]

Better use of time than trying to sign Garza would be making a deal with COL for Carlos Gonzalez.

Singing a #5 like Garza (Rich Harden 2.0) doesn't add squat to the offense. Take that on while working with McCann's agent. Certainly don't wait to start on the rest of the needs until you find out McCann's decision.

Work in parallel.

the offense is the first need this off-season. we need to address needs at C, 1B, DH and LCOF. start with McCann. Quentin would be a good thought at DH if we can't bring back Cruz (Quentin has only play around 160 games the last 2 years). i would look at Napoli at 1B with a heavily incentive laden 2 year deal something like Boston did this year. then i would look at adding a COF thru trade or free agency. (Tampa has 4 very good starting OF'ers so maybe we could work a deal for DeJesus)

but in the long run it is a combination of good offense and good pitching that wins. you need 5 good starters to keep you in games with Tepesch you would have 4 good pitchers(Darvish, Holland, Harrison(hopefully) and Perez) and Tepesche.

 

[scotsman1948]

That's bunk. Mickey Mantle didn't platoon in CF. Joe Dimaggio didn't platoon. Yogi Berra didn't even platoon.

Are you telling me that the game was easier 50 years ago with double headers and train rides?

You are the one wanting to sign Garza just to spend money when their is no value improvement. You want to upgrade the win potential ... then figure out a way to get a premier COF (and I don't mean the oft injured dude in MIA). Then you play Gentry across all three OF spots.

But no way put them in a platoon. You STILL have not given us an example of ONE platoon that works even for veterans. For young guys (and not sure Gentry qualifies as young any more) ... platoons kill any capability from the RH bat due to lack of PT.

have not even mentioned the dude in Miami for a while and won't.

 

[scotsman1948]

Again ... so how does Garza improve the winning potential? And you leave out the part where Garza missed April through most of May. So how is he Mr. Ironman ... and Tepesch in our opinion isn't? And ... Tepesch was on strategic DL. There simply wasn't room to bring him back and TEX did not want him down at AAA because then the DL rehab clock would be ticking.

once he came off the 15-day DL, he could have been outrighted to AAA, why wasn't he? he had options available

 

[Windingmywatch]

once he came off the 15-day DL, he could have been outrighted to AAA, why wasn't he? he had options available

TEX clearly didn't want to burn an option on him for a month in AAA. Was better to hold him on the DL and then rehab him so as to return after 1 Sep. Way they worked his calendar he still has all his options. That counts on the market... and something worth having if he's your #5.

 

[scotsman1948]

TEX clearly didn't want to burn an option on him for a month in AAA. Was better to hold him on the DL and then rehab him so as to return after 1 Sep. Way they worked his calendar he still has all his options. That counts on the market... and something worth having if he's your #5.

maybe so but i don't consider him a viable #5 right now but who knows we still have months to go before ST.

 

[Windingmywatch]

the offense is the first need this off-season. we need to address needs at C, 1B, DH and LCOF. start with McCann. Quentin would be a good thought at DH if we can't bring back Cruz (Quentin has only play around 160 games the last 2 years). i would look at Napoli at 1B with a heavily incentive laden 2 year deal something like Boston did this year. then i would look at adding a COF thru trade or free agency. (Tampa has 4 very good starting OF'ers so maybe we could work a deal for DeJesus)

but in the long run it is a combination of good offense and good pitching that wins. you need 5 good starters to keep you in games with Tepesch you would have 4 good pitchers(Darvish, Holland, Harrison(hopefully) and Perez) and Tepesche.

You need 10 SPs minimum ... not 5. You want to make a trade w/TBR for DeJesus? Really? David DeJesus?

The muffle you hear in your ear when you call them is Friedman laughing hysterically ... and telling Joe Maddon ... "guess what Joe ... TEX wants DeJesus to 'upgrade its offense'!"

That's funny. McCann, Quentin, Napoli and David DeJesus all in the same paragraph.

 

[Windingmywatch]

maybe so but i don't consider him a viable #5 right now but who knows we still have months to go before ST.

Remember ... he beat out everyone for the #5 job out of AA last spring. Going into camp next spring he'll have 17 ML starts under his belt. By the way ... how many ML starts did Martin Perez have in his bag coming into camp this spring?

 

[scotsman1948]

You need 10 SPs minimum ... not 5. You want to make a trade w/TBR for DeJesus? Really? David DeJesus?

The muffle you hear in your ear when you call them is Friedman laughing hysterically ... and telling Joe Maddon ... "guess what Joe ... TEX wants DeJesus to 'upgrade its offense'!"

That's funny. McCann, Quentin, Napoli and David DeJesus all in the same paragraph.

i mentioned DeJesus as an option because i heard him mentioned by someone named Martinez on MLB. sorry for thinking

 

[RevSader]

You need 10 SPs minimum ... not 5. You want to make a trade w/TBR for DeJesus? Really? David DeJesus?

The muffle you hear in your ear when you call them is Friedman laughing hysterically ... and telling Joe Maddon ... "guess what Joe ... TEX wants DeJesus to 'upgrade its offense'!"

That's funny. McCann, Quentin, Napoli and David DeJesus all in the same paragraph.

Yeah...if I called Tampa the one player I would be asking about is Zobrist.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Yeah...if I called Tampa the one player I would be asking about is Zobrist.

Yea ... the Chirinos deal in April was all about building a relationship with TBR so a year later they'd be willing to part with DeJesus! Too funny.

 

[Al Falfa]

who is to say how much X dollars is?

The two billionaires that control the purse strings my have something to say about it. I said X because there is a certain amount of dollars coming off the books in salary and I figured I'd say X because I don't know the exact amount.

 

[Windingmywatch]

i mentioned DeJesus as an option because i heard him mentioned by someone named Martinez on MLB. sorry for thinking

Scotty ... you've been part of the core here for years ... you've done good thinking before even though I rant at you. But think about it this way:

You have a #1ML prospect in your wallet that you can't use effectively. So what would that #1ML prospect get you one for one. I think your answer is someone bigger than DeJesus. Suggest we start at the top of the COF all star candidates ... and work down ... not at the B-level FA (which doesn't exist any more) and up.

I think the way you improve your operation ... or your roster in the case of JD ... is to define the best option for every spot ... and then figure out how to get them. Don't start with what you think you can afford or what someone might be willing to give up. Remember ... if someone opens the conversation offering one guy ... that means he's the one they can do without.

You don't want a guy someone can do without. You want THE guy from your plan in exchange for your #1ML prospect in your wallet.

 

[Al Falfa]

no it doesn't. you take 2 young good players and you lessen the impact of a long season on them. point in fact Leonys Martin. as the season wore on he ran down and because of the poor play of Murphy we ended up having to use Gentry in LF. if we hadn't then a platooning of the 2 would have kept them fresh. neither has ever played a full season at the major league level and you want to use both of them next year as full-time players. what do we do when they both run out of steam in August?

I think Martin's problems were more of an inability to hit sliders and curveballs than wearing down.

 

[ESPN Refugee]

Martin is an everyday player soon and it could very well be this year. I agree with WMW that I don't really want platoons a whole season sharing a position. Have 3 solid outfield starters and have a really good and solid 4th OF that can give rest to the starters and yet still have the option to play quite a bit and contribute.

I would have loved to have Garza back but at this point he's a luxury and wouldn't add just a ton of value to this ballclub. Nick Tepesch can fill out the rotation and do well or if Colby is ready to come back for real then that is fine by me. I would have loved to take a bid on Tanaka but like Garza he'd just be a luxury unless they wanted to go after him and maybe have the flexibility of trading one of their current arms in the near future.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Who was it back in the old days who thought that Jermaine Dye ought to be signed by TEX?

Was somebody here. Luckily I can't remember who it was and when all those threads were deleted by the mothership we lost all that evidence.

Was a no miss signing ... but instead of TEX signing him ... he retired. How about that? Big name like Dye turned out to be just a big name cloud.

 

[DT LUNA]

Martin is an everyday player soon and it could very well be this year. I agree with WMW that I don't really want platoons a whole season sharing a position. Have 3 solid outfield starters and have a really good and solid 4th OF that can give rest to the starters and yet still have the option to play quite a bit and contribute.

I would have loved to have Garza back but at this point he's a luxury and wouldn't add just a ton of value to this ballclub. Nick Tepesch can fill out the rotation and do well or if Colby is ready to come back for real then that is fine by me. I would have loved to take a bid on Tanaka but like Garza he'd just be a luxury unless they wanted to go after him and maybe have the flexibility of trading one of their current arms in the near future.

Have to agree whole heartedly with you and WMW. Season long platooning should be avoided when ever possible. We have a great looking OF with very talented people that could possibly be one of the best in MLB. No platooning please.

 

[Windingmywatch]

The two billionaires that control the purse strings my have something to say about it. I said X because there is a certain amount of dollars coming off the books in salary and I figured I'd say X because I don't know the exact amount.

Did about 10minutes of math and this is what I come up with ... please shoot at my figuring.

Coming off the $125mil (Cot's)
$10.5m Cruz
$11.0m Berkman
$07.5m AJ
$05.8m Murphy
$02.7m Soto
$02.0m Colby
$01.8m Baker
$01.5m Frasor
$01.3m Lowe (Derek)
$00.5m Borbon
$00.5m Leury Garcia
$00.5m Ogando
$00.5m Moreland
$00.5m Gentry
$10.0m MY
$55.3m Total (approx) coming off the books

$125 - 55 = $70mil committed

Add back in's ... guy listed or equivalent
$03.0m Soto
$01.5m Frasor
$02.0m Colby
$02.0m Baker
$02.0m Cotts (was not on ML contract for 2013)
$01.5m Ogando (wedge for Arb1)
$01.5m Moreland (wedge for Arb1)
$01.5m Gentry (wedge for Arb1)
$15.0m Total add backs

$70m + $15m = $85mil committed and probable. Assume $125mil budget limit for planning purposes ... minus the $85m committed and probable = $40mil for ... Cruz, #1C, COF

What am I missing?

 

[Al Falfa]

No. No more platoons. Platoons hurt both players but especially RH bats. What was crazy was Murphy and Gentry platooning ... when Gentry had better BA and OBP numbers against both LH and RH pitchers than Murphy did.

No more platoons. Platoons institutionalize an acceptance of mediocrity.

Give us but ONE example of a platoon anywhere in MLB that results in superior offensive output from both players to justify as an example of success. Just one example.

Not sure about this year since I didn't follow other teams much, but as I recall the 2012 A's seemed to do pretty well using a platoon system.

 

[Al Falfa]

no it doesn't. you take 2 young good players and you lessen the impact of a long season on them. point in fact Leonys Martin. as the season wore on he ran down and because of the poor play of Murphy we ended up having to use Gentry in LF. if we hadn't then a platooning of the 2 would have kept them fresh. neither has ever played a full season at the major league level and you want to use both of them next year as full-time players. what do we do when they both run out of steam in August?

Isn't a platoon system more about splits than wearing down?