Territorial Cup Thread

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

Willie T!!!! One of my favorite cats of all time! He led us to a victory against BYU in the Vegas bowl. It was freezing cold there too; it even snowed.

You guys had a good team that year, if you guys would of played that way the whole year, you might of been contending for a Pac championship. Mike Thomas and Antonioe Cason were very good players.

But lets be honest Nick Foles was 10x better than Willie Tuitama. Trust me we were glad when Rudy left. I know you were glad when Willie Tuitama left because Foles was a stud.

 

[Monte Carlo Wildcat]

Am I trying too hard to sound intelligent or are you trying too hard to understand it? Freshman year was a long time ago. If you want to argue with simple math be my guest. It's rivalry week, bet every underdog and see if you do better than 50-50 (minus the greese). Maybe you will, but then why are there places like Las Vegas?

Spreads by no means are a true representation of how much better one team is than another. All Vegas cares about is making money $$$$$. That's it! They'll create a spread based on a number that they think will generate money evenly for both teams so they can rake in the vig. All sports betting is based on making Vegas money and that's all it means.

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

This is some BS. Another reason why I hate bleacher report. Ranking the Pac-12's Rivalries | Bleacher Report

 

[GumbySquad]

You guys had a good team that year, if you guys would of played that way the whole year, you might of been contending for a Pac championship. Mike Thomas and Antonioe Cason were very good players.

But lets be honest Nick Foles was 10x better than Willie Tuitama. Trust me we were glad when Rudy left. I know you were glad when Willie Tuitama left because Foles was a stud.

This is Arizona's football moto. They have had a ton of top-5 and top-10 upsets in the last 10 years, but they also lose to teams like Wazzu, which they should beat by two touchdowns.

Arizona is a program that has never had any depth, but with the recruiting that RR is putting together lately, hopefully the quality depth will be much improved next season and beyond. This will go a long way towards heightening the competition in practice and getting individuals to play with more purpose on every down, no matter the opponent.

It is hard to motivate (some) college players when there is nobody on the bench waiting to take their place.

 

[GumbySquad]

Spreads by no means are a true representation of how much better one team is than another. All Vegas cares about is making money $$$$$. That's it! They'll create a spread based on a number that they think will generate money evenly for both teams so they can rake in the vig. All sports betting is based on making Vegas money and that's all it means.

Truer words were never spoken. Reality is... a lot of East-Coast betters have never watched Arizona play football, but they hear about the Cats destroying #5 Oregon, so their interest is piqued. In situations like this, the line gets set a bit higher than it should be (should be around 10) because they know that casual bettors will see the 12+ and jump on the UofA to cover

This is because they saw the highlights against Oregon, but didn't see the highlights against Wazzu.

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

Rich Rod and Graham have put together some very good classes. We should see both teams ranked and playing for the Territorial Cup in a few years and maybe decide the south?

College Football Recruiting Schools - ESPN

College Football Recruiting Schools - ESPN

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

Greatest Territorial Cup games every played were 1998 when ASU torched Uofas desert Sworm, and Todd Heap went off, back and forth touchdowns, exciting offense and the game was all momentum and Uofas offense was even torching ASU. When Ryan keely through an interception changed momentum and gave Uofa a touchdown to get cushion and a 2 touchdown lead then ASU started to come back and lost in the end 45-37 most exciting, greatest game ever played even though my Sun Devils lost I was glued to the couch watching that re run. 2005 ASU came back and a hell of a game, where ASU picked up there play in the 4th quarter and kicked a game winning field goal Terry Richardsons return made for an exciting finish. Obviously im young but those are mine. Saw that 98 game on rerun greatest territorial cup game I have seen. 1975 as well with John Jefferson, and even the 2010 game so much emotions, pride, and grit.

The 96 game wasn't so bad, either was the 2012 game.

 

[CatsTopPac]

You know why I find this number interesting? Because it's empirical proof that the logic "anything can happen in a rivalry game" is false. You see, if you believe the above statement, you then attribute a 50-50 probability to the outcome of the game. An economist would look at this scenario and say, that's an arbitrage opportunity and that any savvy individual would bet the house on Arizona to cover and more times than not they'll win and quickly grow rich. We know that's not the case however because we rarely see this happen. Therefore the fact must remain that their are favorites in rivalry games and underdogs.. Or we'd all be rich.

Not sure if you realize that the last time the favored team actually won the T-Cup was in 2009. In 2010, the (then) 7-4 Cats were expected to beat the (then) 5-6 Sun Devils in Tucson, and lost. In 2011, the (then) 6-4 Sun Devils were expected to beat the (then) 3-8 Wildcats in Tempe, and lost. Last year, the (then) 7-4 Cats were expected to beat the (then) 6-5 Sun Devils in Tucson, and lost.

So, your "empirical proof" has been complete bullshit, the last three consecutive times these two teams have played. Therefore, two things can be concluded:

1) Had we all bet everything we had against (not only the spread, but even the winner) Vegas that last three years, we would in fact be rich.

2) That whole post of yours is complete bullshit.

It's a rivalry game, and anything can happen. ASU is picked to win because they are having the better season, just like AZ last year, ASU the year before that, AZ the year before that, and AZ also the year before that, etc. But when two teams who have an honest hatred for one another, play; anything can and does happen. It doesn't even matter where the game is played. The last three years in a row: the team with the better record was playing at home, expected to win... and lost. So your theory that it "rarely happens" has been empirically proven wrong the last three consecutive years!

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

Also depends on whos at home especially with how close ASU and Uofa have been over the years with how good there teams are. ASU was 10 point favorites in 2011, thank god we didnt win that game all those missed tackles we had and the penalties. Stupid errors and seeing Ericksons stupid old face on the sidelines almost made me throw up. Thank god we are past those days. Im sure Uofa fans feel the same way about Stoops.

 

[CatsTopPac]

Also depends on whos at home especially with how close ASU and Uofa have been over the years with how good there teams are.

The last three away teams have won.

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

The last three away teams have won.

Im talking about when they select the spread............ The teams talent wise have been even so its whoever is home will probably be favored. Even though the away teams have won in recent years.

 

[Monte Carlo Wildcat]

Looks like Ka'Deem is currently sitting in the 6th spot for the heisman race. I'm not 100% how the heisman finalists are chosen but based off the total voting numbers, it looks like Ka'Deem is a long shot to make the final four.

2013 Heisman Watch - Heisman Trophy Candidates - ESPN

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

WalterFootball.com: 2015 NFL Mock Draft - Charlie Campbell Jaelen Strong as a top 5 pick in 2015 in an earlier mock. He looks like he will be a great NFL Wr.

 

[Monte Carlo Wildcat]

WalterFootball.com: 2015 NFL Mock Draft - Charlie Campbell Jaelen Strong as a top 5 pick in 2015 in an earlier mock. He looks like he will be a great NFL Wr.

That's great Jahii but I'm pretty sure this comment belongs in a ASU and/or Pac12 thread.

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

That's great Jahii but I'm pretty sure this comment belongs in a ASU and/or Pac12 thread.

Whoops my bad.

 

[azchamps]

ARIZONA-48---asWHO-41

 

[azchamps]

I don't have to tell the CATS! BEAR DOWN!

 

[WhoDatDevil]

WhoDat... Predictors are less relevant when it comes to rivalry games, because of the heightened emotional states of 18-22 year olds. Weird things happen when adrenaline levels are increased. The reason why statements like "anything goes in rivalries" prove to be true more often than not is because there is factual evidence to back them up. (ie: look at the last 5 years of the Territorial Cup and see how many of those games were won by the underdog)

For instance, asu sports get a lot of grief for their lower academic standards. This statement can be backed up by the fact that the asu football team is 11th in the pac12 at placing players on the All-Conference academic team. (UofA is 3rd)... which again is a fact that can be used to back up the statement: "you don't have to be smart to play good football".

The predictors are based on trying to achieve even money on both sides of the number. In my opinion it's extremely difficult to gauge the consumers psyche and therefore it's required to take into consideration the metrics of the teams and their body of work to date. Basically, the best way to achieve even money on both sides is to try to predict the outcome of the game.

Up until this point, the heightened emotional states of the 18-22 year olds you mentioned have been taken into consideration at every level of analysis. You have to ask yourself, were the players emotional when they were trying to win the Pac-12 Championship? Were they emotional when they were playing Notre Dame in Cowboy Stadium? Were they emotional in Palo Alto against Stanford?

I will agree that the last five years have gone against what I'm saying, but is this a long term trend? You need to take into consideration all of the underdogs in rivalry games in the NCAA and see if they've gone better than .500. I'm obviously not going to do this, but I would be very surprised if this were the case. And if it were the case, what's stopping someone from betting the underdog in every rivalry game and collecting their millions? People are smart, you think they'd figure that one out.

The academic point you brought up has nothing to do with anything, but ASU Athletics ranks 4th in graduation success rate, has produced the 2nd most academic all americans since 2000, has recently increased their overall GPA to over 3.0, and is currently ranked #1 in Academic Progress Rate in the Conference.

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

Rivalry games are so much pressure. Especially ASU vs Uofa. As fans this is what really makes our season beating our rival is a cherry on top of our season, or something that we can be happy about even after a bad year. Just beat Uofa! Just beat Uofa! More pressure in this game than any other game. When your in the stands you can feel the emotion that as ASU fans we dont want to lose to Uofa and im sure they feel the same this rivalry has so much pressure more pressure than ASU has had all year and the same for Uofa. Its the Territorial Cup it means so much to this state, and for Asu and Uofa fans.

 

[WhoDatDevil]

Not sure if you realize that the last time the favored team actually won the T-Cup was in 2009. In 2010, the (then) 7-4 Cats were expected to beat the (then) 5-6 Sun Devils in Tucson, and lost. In 2011, the (then) 6-4 Sun Devils were expected to beat the (then) 3-8 Wildcats in Tempe, and lost. Last year, the (then) 7-4 Cats were expected to beat the (then) 6-5 Sun Devils in Tucson, and lost.

So, your "empirical proof" has been complete bullshit, the last three consecutive times these two teams have played. Therefore, two things can be concluded:

1) Had we all bet everything we had against (not only the spread, but even the winner) Vegas that last three years, we would in fact be rich.

2) That whole post of yours is complete bullshit.

It's a rivalry game, and anything can happen. ASU is picked to win because they are having the better season, just like AZ last year, ASU the year before that, AZ the year before that, and AZ also the year before that, etc. But when two teams who have an honest hatred for one another, play; anything can and does happen. It doesn't even matter where the game is played. The last three years in a row: the team with the better record was playing at home, expected to win... and lost. So your theory that it "rarely happens" has been empirically proven wrong the last three consecutive years!

It's about as close to proof as you can get.. You need to think about what you're writing.. If anything can happen then there's a 50-50 percent chance that ASU wins and a 50-50 percent chance UA wins. You don't even need to apply Standard Deviation and Chebyshev's Law, you can clearly see that given those odds you're going to lay money on UA (or any underdog in a rivalry with that logic). So why isn't someone hanging out in Vegas right now beating the system? You would think that with all of you being convinced that anything can happen in this game we'd all be collecting checks.