The Karl Malone Thread

[nuraman00]

Shanemansj13, I don't know if you're still checking this thread, but one incident from the Cavs still bugs me.

Ilguskas made the All-Star game in 2003. Yet he only played 3 minutes, 57 seconds.

Someone made a comment that maybe it was because East All-Star coach held a grudge from some Pistons-Cavs rivalry.

But that was a huge injustice. All the injuries Ilgauskas went through, he finally makes a ASG, and plays the least amount of minutes I've ever seen anyone healthy play. (Sometimes a player will be banged up and request to not play much, but that wasn't the case with him).

I wanted to see him have his moment at the ASG.

Also, do you have any fun memories from Daughtery-Malone or Price-Stockton matchups?

 

[Shanemansj13]

Shanemansj13, I don't know if you're still checking this thread, but one incident from the Cavs still bugs me.

Ilguskas made the All-Star game in 2003. Yet he only played 3 minutes, 57 seconds.

Someone made a comment that maybe it was because East All-Star coach held a grudge from some Pistons-Cavs rivalry.

But that was a huge injustice. All the injuries Ilgauskas went through, he finally makes a ASG, and plays the least amount of minutes I've ever seen anyone healthy play. (Sometimes a player will be banged up and request to not play much, but that wasn't the case with him).

I wanted to see him have his moment at the ASG.

Also, do you have any fun memories from Daughtery-Malone or Price-Stockton matchups?

IMO, Ilgauskas had other seasons where he got jipped. And he has had foot problems his whole career, but still a very good career. I agree, I thought he shOuld hVe his time with all his hard work.

I grew up in 90's. I don't remember Daughtry and Price too much. I remember The Mailman and Stockton always playn Jordan and the Bulls in the Finals. I remember always cheering for the Jazz with Hornacek, Russell, and those guys. I hated MJ. But I grew up watching Shawn Kemp, Ilgauskas, Danny Ferry, etc.

I was probably to young to the greats Price and Daughtry in their prime.

 

[nuraman00]

I learned that if someone commits offensive goal tending, it's a turnover and the shot isn't counted by the first guy who shot it. Jeremy Lin shot a layup that bounced around and was going in and Asik pushed it in while over the cylinder. Lin didn't get a miss on that (or a make obviously). He would have been 6-6. I was expecting 5-6 after that, but nope, 5-5.

He did get a turnover though when the teammate through the ball at his feet on a fast break attempt in which Lin couldn't get a hold of the poorly thrown ball. That should be on the passer.

Don't you remember the offensive goaltending that Rusty LaRue got in the playoffs?

EDIT: I guess it was Scott Padgett.

Utah Jazz at Sacramento Kings Play-By-Play, April 20, 2002 | Basketball-Reference.com



0:05.0 S. Padgett misses 3-pt shot from 24 ft (block by C. Webber) 86-89
0:02.3 Offensive rebound by K. Malone 86-89
0:00.5 Turnover by S. Padgett (offensive goaltending) 86-89
0:00.0 End of 4th quarter

 

[MHSL82]

Don't you remember the offensive goaltending that Scott Padgett got in the playoffs?

Utah Jazz at Sacramento Kings Play-By-Play, April 20, 2002 | Basketball-Reference.com

0:05.0 S. Padgett misses 3-pt shot from 24 ft (block by C. Webber) 86-89
0:02.3 Offensive rebound by K. Malone 86-89
0:00.5 Turnover by S. Padgett (offensive goaltending) 86-89
0:00.0 End of 4th quarter

Yeah, I don't know why he did that because down by three, you either make it or you don't. A putback doesn't do you any good. So even if it weren't offensive goaltending, it wouldn't have done anything. I remember Shaq in the Magic Days grabbing a three point out of the cylinder, going down, and then dunking it. Took a point away from his team, not sure if it mattered because I don't know if it was a close game or not. Offensive goaltending is not called if you prevent your own team from scoring.

But as to the Padgett play, I didn't look at the box score following the game or the play-by-play, so I had no idea whether that was a missed shot and a turnover or just a turnover. In the Rockets-Utah game, it was only a turnover, not a miss.

 

[nuraman00]

Yeah, I don't know why he did that because down by three, you either make it or you don't. A putback doesn't do you any good. So even if it weren't offensive goaltending, it wouldn't have done anything. I remember Shaq in the Magic Days grabbing a three point out of the cylinder, going down, and then dunking it. Took a point away from his team, not sure if it mattered because I don't know if it was a close game or not. Offensive goaltending is not called if you prevent your own team from scoring.

But as to the Padgett play, I didn't look at the box score following the game or the play-by-play, so I had no idea whether that was a missed shot and a turnover or just a turnover. In the Rockets-Utah game, it was only a turnover, not a miss.

Malone didn't get credit for a missed shot either, only a rebound.

So Padgett's play was similar, only a turnover.

BTW, I think Malone was just going to make a put-back, and then they were going to start fouling again. His put-back probably would have left 1.8-2 seconds left in the game.

I don't think there was enough time for Malone to pass back out for a 3.

Yeah,

So did you really remember the offensive goaltending play in the close moment of a playoffs game, or had you forgotten about it?

 

[MHSL82]

Malone didn't get credit for a missed shot either, only a rebound.

So Padgett's play was similar, only a turnover.

BTW, I think Malone was just going to make a put-back, and then they were going to start fouling again. His put-back probably would have left 1.8-2 seconds left in the game.

I don't think there was enough time for Malone to pass back out for a 3.

So did you really remember the offensive goaltending play in the close moment of a playoffs game, or had you forgotten about it?

My original statement was that I learned that offensive goaltending was only a turnover, not a miss and turnover. I didn't learn that in the Padgett game because I didn't see the box score or play-by-play until after you showed it to me.

And as to the putback, if Malone thought there'd be time left on the clock after the shot, that I can see. But after Padgett saw that the ball was bouncing around and there was no time, there was no reason for Padgett to try to hit it in.

 

[nuraman00]

My original statement was that I learned that offensive goaltending was only a turnover, not a miss and turnover. I didn't learn that in the Padgett game because I didn't see the box score or play-by-play until after you showed it to me.

And as to the putback, if Malone thought there'd be time left on the clock after the shot, that I can see. But after Padgett saw that the ball was bouncing around and there was no time, there was no reason for Padgett to try to hit it in.

Padgett probably wasn't thinking about how much time was left on the clock, and he probably just wanted to make sure the Jazz scored. And he probably tried to put it back instinctively.

 

[MHSL82]

There is the supposition or legend that no one goes on to have any success after they leave the Jazz organization. For the most part, I think there is some credence to this idea. However, there are a few former Jazzmen out there right now doing okay. I was trying to decide if anyone is actually playing better in their career now. Korver seems to be doing really well. I think his 3 percentage is actually lower as a Hawk, but he seems to be having success. Boozers stats are down, but he hasn't been nearly as fragile as a Bull. Going back through history, wondering who the contenders are.

I would amend the legend that those who excelled here, did so because of Stockton and Malone taking the attention away from them, the role modelling of the work ethic, etc. Sloan had more control, he had more flexibility on who to choose, and didn't have a youth movement going on/rebuilding. Only those with higher expectations left and not having what they had here, they didn't do as well. Or they weren't good here and we removed them.

Yes, and the system here made average or below average players better. That'd still go with current and recent players, but we've changed due to what I said above.

 

[Sackataters]

Few players are durable.

Some of the top PFs -- Aldridge, Randolph, Love, also miss a decent amount of games every year.

Most players in most sports get hurt, it's just the way sports are.

Jefferson may be healthy now, but it won't last. Odds are that he'll get injured.

There really doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason why the few durable players are the way they are. Russell Westbrook takes as much contact as anyone, but has never missed a game, not even in HS.

Probably 0.1% of all athletes are durable, in sports.

And it's not about salary either. Minimum salary players have season ending injuries the same as max players.

What are the odds that you get a Stockton and a Malone on the same team then? Or, maybe it was just a different era. If you read the Sloan thread, there was a story about Jerry playing with broken ribs.

 

[nuraman00]

What are the odds that you get a Stockton and a Malone on the same team then? Or, maybe it was just a different era. If you read the Sloan thread, there was a story about Jerry playing with broken ribs.

I don't think it was a different era. You have to think about all of the players in that era that weren't healthy, not just the few that were.

Look at the rosters and games played from other teams.

Here's New Jersey from 1985.

1984-85 New Jersey Nets Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

Birdsong played 56, games, King played 42, Darryl Dawkins played 39.

 

[MHSL82]

If you get the Jazz telecast, you should watch the halftime summary of the 1993 All-Star game. I like how Stockton and Malone got the MVP and how Malone blocked then-rookie Shaq's dunk.

 

[MHSL82]

They showed Malone do his hand behind the back dunk and I've heard some people lament a tough guy doing that. But I saw that as something showoff like this is so easy or taunting like - which is tough as any throw down (unless it's over somebody). I hate seeing Griffin doing the same hard dunk every time and people acting like it's worth 3 points. It has no creativity and it'll go down as he goes in age. I still like how apt this commercial is.

 

[nuraman00]

If you get the Jazz telecast, you should watch the halftime summary of the 1993 All-Star game. I like how Stockton and Malone got the MVP and how Malone blocked then-rookie Shaq's dunk.

Halftime is blacked out on LP Broadband.

For games on NBA TV, they cut to studio halftime shows.

 

[MHSL82]

I'm just tired of seeing a lack of toughness. Even in recent years, like game 5 @ SA in 2007, or game 5 @ Houston in 2008.

I want to see someone like Carroll, but the talent to be a starter, and someone other GMs would actually want. Like Matt Barnes or Tony Allen or Sefolosha, etc.

Or AK, with an affordable contract and more consistency.

If Tinsley was in his prime, he would have satisfied it from the PG.

But given this team's roster, I think there needs to be more toughness from the SG/SF.


Favors and Kanters could bring it, if they ever prove to be heavy minute starters. (Which might not happen.)

Jerry Sloan. John Stockton. Karl Malone. Greg Ostertag. Just kidding, but he did respond well to Shaq's slap. He fought back and did a generally good job against him.

 

[nuraman00]

Jerry Sloan. John Stockton. Karl Malone. Greg Ostertag. Just kidding, but he did respond well to Shaq's slap. He fought back and did a generally good job against him.

I'm talking about all season long, not individual moments.

 

[nuraman00]

Jerry Sloan. John Stockton. Karl Malone. Greg Ostertag. Just kidding, but he did respond well to Shaq's slap. He fought back and did a generally good job against him.

Plus, many of those teams didn't rank as well defensively as the New Orleans Jazz teams, so something was missing.

And I liked Ostertag.

But apparently, there needed to be even more.

 

[MHSL82]

I'm talking about all season long, not individual moments.

Me too. I was mentioning season long guys. and then Ostertag was a joke. But then I felt that it was harsh to say him as a joke when he has been tough before. And that was for a playoff series, so it's a bit more than a moment. And we won (mostly because of Sloan, Malone, and Stockton, but still). Kobe and Shaq weren't clicking. And wasn't as tough as our two, three if you include Sloan. The Jazz were a tougher team of the two.

 

[nuraman00]

Me too. I was mentioning season long guys. and then Ostertag was a joke. But then I felt that it was harsh to say him as a joke when he has been tough before. And that was for a playoff series, so it's a bit more than a moment. And we won (mostly because of Sloan, Malone, and Stockton, but still). Kobe and Shaq weren't clicking.

When Ostertag was on the Kings, and the Kings were getting blown out by Seattle in the 2005 series, someone dubbed Ostertag the nickname OsterShaq, because he looked like the only player with some toughness.

I do agree with Ostertag's general complaint, that he got in the doghouse faster than Malone, for committing the same mistakes.

 

[MHSL82]

When Ostertag was on the Kings, and the Kings were getting blown out by Seattle in the 2005 series, someone dubbed Ostertag the nickname OsterShaq, because he looked like the only player with some toughness.

I do agree with Ostertag's general complaint, that he got in the doghouse faster than Malone, for committing the same mistakes.

I like it in the dog house, I mean, sure the authority is mad at you, but you generally get paid and don't have to do any challenging jobs. I mean sure, no promotions, dead end job, but whatever. Getting paid more than I do.

P.S. I'm only kidding, I've never been in the dog house before when I had work, though I'm sure everyone has their impressions of everybody, including me.

 

[nuraman00]

Malone is broadcasting now. He says there should have been some hard fouls in this game.