The John Stockton Thread

[nuraman00]

Poor Stockton: Utah Jazz at Houston Rockets Box Score, January 3, 1989 | Basketball-Reference.com

26 Points, 24 Assists, 6 Steals, 1 TO, 12-16 shooting, 2-2 FTs. 2 point loss.

I wonder if his 1 turnover contributed to 2 points off turnovers.

And see, a combined 10 steals from 2 players is more like it.

 

[nuraman00]

When Marc Iavaroni was coaching the Grizzlies, I wonder if any players said "hey, remember that game where you went 0 - 1 with 3 turnovers"?

Marc Iavaroni | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[MHSL82]

Did some Stockton stat analysis - layman analysis. Per 36 minutes, game by game, here are my findings.

Points - Started off low, went up a bit and leveled off - no real dip at the end.
Assists - Started high, got higher, had a long curve where at the end was slightly lower (like 0.2 lower).
Rebounds - Started average, went straight but slightly up.
Blocks - Stayed very straightline with a bit of an increase.
Steals - Started average, went up for a few years, and declined consistently toward the end.

Points - This makes me feel that Stockton was more efficient as a scorer as his career went on.
Assists - Always above everyone else, didn't decline much at all - minutes are the problem as age goes on, but rate, the same.
Rebounds - Closer to basket as he was older, fewer transition opportunities?
Blocks - Help defense more as he was probably less quick but smarter on where to defend.
Steals - Here is where I think age played a bigger toll. It wasn't a huge drop - but it was the only one where I felt there was a real trend or change. The others - since this is RATE PER MINUTE analysis - basically remained consistent.

I can send you these pics on FB, @nuraman00 .

 

[nuraman00]

Did some Stockton stat analysis - layman analysis. Per 36 minutes, game by game, here are my findings.

Points - Started off low, went up a bit and leveled off - no real dip at the end.
Assists - Started high, got higher, had a long curve where at the end was slightly lower (like 0.2 lower).
Rebounds - Started average, went straight but slightly up.
Blocks - Stayed very straightline with a bit of an increase.
Steals - Started average, went up for a few years, and declined consistently toward the end.

Points - This makes me feel that Stockton was more efficient as a scorer as his career went on.
Assists - Always above everyone else, didn't decline much at all - minutes are the problem as age goes on, but rate, the same.
Rebounds - Closer to basket as he was older, fewer transition opportunities?
Blocks - Help defense more as he was probably less quick but smarter on where to defend.
Steals - Here is where I think age played a bigger toll. It wasn't a huge drop - but it was the only one where I felt there was a real trend or change. The others - since this is RATE PER MINUTE analysis - basically remained consistent.

I can send you these pics on FB, @nuraman00 .

Everyone in history has dropped off more.

Stockton is the only one in history that I can think of, that both had a prolific rate of steals, and longevity of those high rates.

Any other good steals people either had a high rate for a few short years, and then dropped off a lot.

Or had a consistent average, but usually not more than 2 per game.

That's why I've said that I think his steals records are even more impressive than his assists.

I can see some player coming along every now and then, who will have a a long, prolific career in assists. Like LeBron James. Maybe Jokic can do that too, we'll have to see how long his career is.

But for steals, there's no one like Stockton.

Maybe do those career steals graphs for Stockton vs. Payton vs. Jordan vs. Kidd vs. Cheeks vs. Pippen vs. Olajuwon vs. Malone vs. Alvin Robertson vs. Mookie Blaylock vs. Chris Paul vs. LeBron James vs. Shawn Marion.

 

[MHSL82]

Everyone in history has dropped off more.

Stockton is the only one in history that I can think of, that both had a prolific rate of steals, and longevity of those high rates.

Any other good steals people either had a high rate for a few short years, and then dropped off a lot.

Or had a consistent average, but usually not more than 2 per game.

That's why I've said that I think his steals records are even more impressive than his assists.

I can see some player coming along every now and then, who will have a a long, prolific career in assists. Like LeBron James. Maybe Jokic can do that too, we'll have to see how long his career is.

But for steals, there's no one like Stockton.

Maybe do those career steals graphs for Stockton vs. Payton vs. Jordan vs. Kidd vs. Cheeks vs. Pippen vs. Olajuwon vs. Malone vs. Alvin Robertson vs. Mookie Blaylock vs. Chris Paul vs. LeBron James vs. Shawn Marion.

Yes, Stockton is my favorite player. His consistency is awesome. I was comparing other categories of himself to himself. To others, above the rest.

That is why it bothers me when anyone cites Magic Johnson’s assist rate. People can say Magic was better overall, and it is unfair that he had to leave, but if he played longer, his assist average would drop. And even then Stockton’s assists numbers only dropped because they lowered his minutes.

 

[BigFin]

I loved Stockton's reverse layup and floater. Extremely underrated scorer.

 

[MHSL82]

24 years ago today, John Stockton became the all-time assist leader. I was at that game. They handed out a certificate to the fans as they left the stadium.

 

[nuraman00]

Yes, Stockton is my favorite player. His consistency is awesome. I was comparing other categories of himself to himself. To others, above the rest.

Can you still make that steals graph, across seasons, for the players that I mentioned?

Also, can you plot Stockton's steals in every playoffs season, across games? Like you did for the regular season.

 

[nuraman00]

24 years ago today, John Stockton became the all-time assist leader. I was at that game. They handed out a certificate to the fans as they left the stadium.

@MHSL82, why didn't you tell me you were at the game where Stockton broke the assists record?

Which day/game did he break the steals record?

 

[MHSL82]

@MHSL82, why didn't you tell me you were at the game where Stockton broke the assists record?

Which day/game did he break the steals record?

I might have been there for the steals record. I have the certificate somewhere.

 

[MHSL82]

Haaaaaaaapy Birthdaaaaaay, John Stockton!

 

[nuraman00]

Haaaaaaaapy Birthdaaaaaay, John Stockton!

How is he celebrating?

 

[MHSL82]

How is he celebrating?

Obviously.

 

[MHSL82]

 

[nuraman00]

Good post.

 

[MHSL82]

I took Stockton’s best 82 games (GameScore) of his rookie year and then the following numbers are how many games he replaced each respective year in the top 82 of his career to that point.

For example: 61 of his first two years of play are in his top 82 of his career at that point. 21 remain from his rookie year. 33 of his first three years of play are in his top 82 of his career at that point. 49 remain from his first two years.

The second number is the 82nd best of each year at that point.

2: 61, 6.5
3: 33, 10.4
4: 51, 16.9
5: 39, 21.1
6: 25, 23.3
7: 24, 24.9
8: 12, 26.0
9: 5, 26.3
10: 6, 26.5
11: 5, 26.9
12: 6, 27.2
13: 5, 27.5
14: 1, 27.5
15: 0, 27.5
16: 1, 27.5
17: 0, 27.5
18: 1, 27.5
19: 1, 27.5
20: 1, 27.6

 

[SJ76]

All time steals and assists leader?


That’s crazy really. What a bad ass white boy he was. And he took no
shit

 

[antone112]

Thread should be merged with all the other John Stockton threads. Keeping them straight is giving me a headache.

 

[nuraman00]

I took Stockton’s best 82 games (GameScore) of his rookie year and then the following numbers are how many games he replaced each respective year in the top 82 of his career to that point.

For example: 61 of his first two years of play are in his top 82 of his career at that point. 21 remain from his rookie year. 33 of his first three years of play are in his top 82 of his career at that point. 49 remain from his first two years.

The second number is the 82nd best of each year at that point.

2: 61, 6.5
3: 33, 10.4
4: 51, 16.9
5: 39, 21.1
6: 25, 23.3
7: 24, 24.9
8: 12, 26.0
9: 5, 26.3
10: 6, 26.5
11: 5, 26.9
12: 6, 27.2
13: 5, 27.5
14: 1, 27.5
15: 0, 27.5
16: 1, 27.5
17: 0, 27.5
18: 1, 27.5
19: 1, 27.5
20: 1, 27.6

If 61 of his best 82 games are in his first two years of play, then why are there only 33 of his best 82 games in his first 3 years? Shouldn't that be at least 61 also, in his first 3 years?

 

[MHSL82]

If 61 of his best 82 games are in his first two years of play, then why are there only 33 of his best 82 games in his first 3 years? Shouldn't that be at least 61 also, in his first 3 years?

I don’t think I explained what I did very well. 33 of his best 82 games so far in his career had been from the third year. But as of the second year, none of the 33 games had been played yet.

So if you were putting the top 82 games in for the second year, the third season would push out 33 games from that list.

I didn’t mean to imply that 61 of his best career games were in that second season.

Although, I did add those all up to be 277 games so I was thinking about compiling those games and saying that those were his best games because it took into consideration development. So some of those second-year games would not be in the top 82 of his career, but they will be considered pretty significant because at that point they had been top games. Maybe 82 is too many but I think that if you had a list of games and you replaced them, that is significant.