Should HB be in the D League?

[NBKLee]

I think his greatest value in trade is being the piece needed to be able to move David Lee's contract and upgrade that position with one more stud player. That is probably the piece this team needs to truly contend.
Lee is a good scorer but not a 'stud', and a defensive liability, barely adequate at best.

Don't understand the hate for D.Lee. When he plays the 4, he holds his own. When he's force to play the 5, things don't work out so well.

I seem to recall D.Lee holding Aldridge, and Griffin to below average stat lines this year when they played.


He is above average on offense, efficient, a good rebounder, and above average passer. But I guess we see things differently.

 

[msgkings322]

I think this is spot on. The Lee & Barnes for Love talk is a dream, but I think they can make it happen.

You can fill HBarnes' minutes in with a vet-minimum player. Someone like Matt Barnes can do what he does for this team on the cheap.

Tell him to wear HB's number so your jerseys still count

 

[msgkings322]

Don't understand the hate for D.Lee. When he plays the 4, he holds his own. When he's force to play the 5, things don't work out so well.

I seem to recall D.Lee holding Aldridge, and Griffin to below average stat lines this year when they played.


He is above average on offense, efficient, a good rebounder, and above average passer. But I guess we see things differently.

I am definitely not hating on Lee, the dude's a gifted offensive weapon, but the Ws are not quite there. They need to upgrade one of the 5 positions, and it ain't gonna be possible for either guard or the center. That leaves the forward slots, Lee is no bum, he has value but costs a lot, pair him with HB and upgrade the 4. I don't think you get the chance of an upgrade trading AI and HB to improve the 3.

 

[tzill]

I am definitely not hating on Lee, the dude's a gifted offensive weapon, but the Ws are not quite there. They need to upgrade one of the 5 positions, and it ain't gonna be possible for either guard or the center. That leaves the forward slots, Lee is no bum, he has value but costs a lot, pair him with HB and upgrade the 4. I don't think you get the chance of an upgrade trading AI and HB to improve the 3.

I'm not "hating" on Avi either, but he's a friggin turnstile on defense. He may have moments, but he's abused pretty regularly. I'll miss his offense and his general good clubhouse presence, but if we got Love to replace him I'd forget about him pretty quickly.

 

[CohanHater]

Love is a potential HOF talent, that's not a knock against Lee. I own a Lee jersey, I like the guy, but can you imagine the pick/pop pick/roll with Curry and Love?

 

[NBKLee]

I'm not "hating" on Avi either, but he's a friggin turnstile on defense. He may have moments, but he's abused pretty regularly. I'll miss his offense and his general good clubhouse presence, but if we got Love to replace him I'd forget about him pretty quickly.

This thread is swerving off course badly, as stands, HB is a fringe NBA player, and could play himself out of the league, ala La Tax in a few years.


If you are the GM of the Wolves, and Myers comes to the table and says, I want to trade you our fringe / bust of a NBA player in HB, and our "turnstile on defense D.Lee" for your "HOF caliber (when healthy) PF Love", how quick do you hang up on Myers?


Reality is Love isn't coming here. My best guess is after Gasol bolts LA for NYK, Love ends up in LA someway somehow. After this prediction comes true, I'll be selling next week's Lotto's #'s aswell

 

[NBKLee]

Love is a potential HOF talent, that's not a knock against Lee. I own a Lee jersey, I like the guy, but can you imagine the pick/pop pick/roll with Curry and Love?

I couldn't imagine this, unless you want Curry/Love and a team of Dleague scrubs to start on the Dubs.

1st and foremost, they would want Curry in a trade, and most likely Klay + fillers.

Love for his greatness isn't a 'chise changing talent, he's had years up in MINN, and how much has that team improved? How many playoff appearances have they made up there?

 

[msgkings322]

I couldn't imagine this, unless you want Curry/Love and a team of Dleague scrubs to start on the Dubs.

1st and foremost, they would want Curry in a trade, and most likely Klay + fillers.

Love for his greatness isn't a 'chise changing talent, he's had years up in MINN, and how much has that team improved? How many playoff appearances have they made up there?

No they wouldn't, no one would even ask for Curry unless they were offering LeBron or Durant...and frankly I can't think of anyone else off the top of my head I'd deal Curry for. Maybe Harden? Paul George? Griffin? Chris Paul I guess? Honestly, at his age, with his deal, Curry is maybe the 3rd or 4th most valuable player in the league.

Lee + Barnes might not get it done for Love, but no one is offering more from our roster. Remember, Love is going to walk out of Minny after next year so they gotta get something for him...same thing the Nuggets had to do with Carmelo. The question isn't will Minny get fair value back for Love, because they won't, the whole league knows he's out the door. The question is will another team that wants Love offer a better package than Lee + Barnes + filler?

 

[tzill]

This thread is swerving off course badly, as stands, HB is a fringe NBA player, and could play himself out of the league, ala La Tax in a few years.


If you are the GM of the Wolves, and Myers comes to the table and says, I want to trade you our fringe / bust of a NBA player in HB, and our "turnstile on defense D.Lee" for your "HOF caliber (when healthy) PF Love", how quick do you hang up on Myers?


Reality is Love isn't coming here. My best guess is after Gasol bolts LA for NYK, Love ends up in LA someway somehow. After this prediction comes true, I'll be selling next week's Lotto's #'s aswell

Since Love isn't going to stay in MPLS, I don't think Kahn hangs up so quickly. First, HB is still an intriguing talent and far from a "bust." Second, Avi was an All Star and is a legit offensive talent. Third, Minnesota loves them some caucasian ballplayers.

It might be a longshot that Love comes here, but he's going somewhere not named the Twin Cities. The Lakers is an intriguing destination, what do you think they'd have to give up if Gasol goes to the Knicks?

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

Hahahaha....and I thought Knicks fans were a fickle bunch....smh/lol

Good Grief!

 

[CohanHater]

No they wouldn't, no one would even ask for Curry unless they were offering LeBron or Durant...and frankly I can't think of anyone else off the top of my head I'd deal Curry for. Maybe Harden? Paul George? Griffin? Chris Paul I guess? Honestly, at his age, with his deal, Curry is maybe the 3rd or 4th most valuable player in the league.

Lee + Barnes might not get it done for Love, but no one is offering more from our roster. Remember, Love is going to walk out of Minny after next year so they gotta get something for him...same thing the Nuggets had to do with Carmelo. The question isn't will Minny get fair value back for Love, because they won't, the whole league knows he's out the door. The question is will another team that wants Love offer a better package than Lee + Barnes + filler?

That's exactly it, when you're potentially losing someone with Love's talent for nothing, then you'll listen. I could see a scenario where they sweeten the pot with a filler. Also, It wouldn't shock me if Klay and Lee were an option if there's a 3-way deal out there to make it happen. Don't be surprised if there's a strong push for Love.

What about our front office would make you think that they don't have it in them to put a package together? Since they've been here, they grabbed Lee when people thought we wasn't going to come here, they made a strong push for Howard, and still ended up dumping some terrible contracts for Iguodala (that hasn't worked out that great yet, but we haven't played in the playoffs yet.) My guess Myers makes a play for him, whether they have enough to get him is a separate story.

 

[msgkings322]

That's exactly it, when you're potentially losing someone with Love's talent for nothing, then you'll listen. I could see a scenario where they sweeten the pot with a filler. Also, It wouldn't shock me if Klay and Lee were an option if there's a 3-way deal out there to make it happen. Don't be surprised if there's a strong push for Love.

What about our front office would make you think that they don't have it in them to put a package together? Since they've been here, they grabbed Lee when people thought we wasn't going to come here, they made a strong push for Howard, and still ended up dumping some terrible contracts for Iguodala (that hasn't worked out that great yet, but we haven't played in the playoffs yet.) My guess Myers makes a play for him, whether they have enough to get him is a separate story.

Have to disagree with you on Iguodala, he's almost single-handedly (with Bogut) turned a bad defensive team into a very very good one. Bogut was another very good deal this brass made. I hope they find a way to upgrade the team one more time. As I said there are onyl 2 realistic positions they can make better, one of the forwards. I don't see how they can get a deal done for a better 3 but then again it's not me doing the dealing so maybe they will. Still feels like it's gotta be the 4, whcih means Lee goes, and we have to include talent to get better there so at least Barnes. I really hope it doesn't cost Klay because now you just made the 4 better but the 2 worse.

 

[southernfriedwarrior]

I couldn't imagine this, unless you want Curry/Love and a team of Dleague scrubs to start on the Dubs.

1st and foremost, they would want Curry in a trade, and most likely Klay + fillers.

Love for his greatness isn't a 'chise changing talent, he's had years up in MINN, and how much has that team improved? How many playoff appearances have they made up there?

Love isn't a great defender, and he's not a great inside player either. In fact, David Lee is a much better offensive player in the low post than Love. You don't feed Love the ball in the low post in crunch time, and say go get'em big boy. He's no AL Jefferson in the low post - not even close. Love is a really a stretch 4 who happens to be an incredible rebounder. Inside hoops come from junk he picks up around the rim, not offensive prowess in the low post. I've watched many Twolves games over the past three seasons, and I respect his game, but I wouldn't break the bank for him by giving up a third of our roster. Barnes and Lee yes, but that's it. I'm not convinced that Love moves the win/loss needle that much for the Dubs anyway. My gut tells me Love isn't headed for Warriorsland.

 

[msgkings322]

Again, from the guy who knows 10x what all of us do here, Zach Lowe on Kevin Love

The Question of Kevin Love «

 

[msgkings322]

Again, from the guy who knows 10x what all of us do here, Zach Lowe on Kevin Love

The Question of Kevin Love «

After reading this, I don't think the Ws have enough of what the Wolves would want for Love, and others do. They ain't getting him.

They still need to get one more piece to improve one of the forward positions, I hope the so-far excellent front office does it again.

 

[southernfriedwarrior]

After reading this, I don't think the Ws have enough of what the Wolves would want for Love, and others do. They ain't getting him.

They still need to get one more piece to improve one of the forward positions, I hope the so-far excellent front office does it again.

Good article but I disagree with his description of Love as a "powerful low post player." Zach Randolph and Al Jefferson are beasts operating in the low post with their backs to the basket. That just isn't the Kevin Love I've seen. David Lee is much more effective on the low block IMO. I like Love alot, but just like Lee he can struggle to guard his position. Somebody will break the bank for him but I doubt it will pay off for them.

 

[rayhl111]

so fried - from the same man that was pushing anthony randolph! love is big time. anyway, I do like your barnes for waiters idea.

 

[southernfriedwarrior]

so fried - from the same man that was pushing anthony randolph! love is big time. anyway, I do like your barnes for waiters idea.

The only thing I ever said about AR, was that he was very talented. I never put him on a pedestal as a future star. Anyhoo, I'd never bet the farm on Kevin Love myself. I've probably watched 20 TWolves games over the past few years, so I think I have a pretty good read on him as a player. I agree with NBKLee - he's very talented, but he isn't a franchise player. A notch below that - you don't blow up your roster to obtain him. And I do think Lee is a better low post player than Love. Lee has a 53.4% fg percentage for his career, vs Love at 46.2%. That tells you alot about how they get their points. I'm not pushing Lee, just demonstrating that a certain aspect of his game is actually better than Love's. I'd say they're equals as defensive players go, which isn't much of an endorsement for either one of them. I'd do Barnes and Lee for Love, but Minnesota won't, so Warriors need to focus their attention elsewhere.

 

[rayhl111]

AR is not talented. He is almost out of the league. Kev Love is a big boy. Lee is not. Both have certain flaws but Love is more talented as a rebounder, outlet passer and can nail the 3. Minn won't take Barnes or Lee as a package. Minn can and will get something nice in return for Love. I do like very much your idea to trade HB for D. Waiters. That is a beauty of an idea. Waiters is a unrefined Mitch Richmond.

 

[southernfriedwarrior]

I don't know what AR has to do with a discussion of the merits of Kevin Love or trading Barnes, but I think he's got loads of physical talent, so I disagree with you that he's not talented. He's been collecting an NBA paycheck for 7 years now and plays regular rotation minutes for Denver so I doubt his NBA career is in danger. Warriors could've dealt Barnes for Waiters earlier in the year but that ship has sailed. Waiters has gotten better whereas Barnes is floundering. Wasn't Waiters the guy Jerry West wanted in the draft all along? Love is very good but he isn't a superstar. If he defended his position better, then the conversation about him changes IMO.