Serious Question

[NWinAZ]

Has Felix ever won a big game? Not being mean, but I was trying to think if he has ever done that. I wouldn't count any games before the A.S. break. I wouldn't count any game when your team has been eliminated whether it be mathematical or just obvious.

Obviously he hasn't has many opps to do so, but it just seem he falters in big games. I like the guy and he is good for Seattle, but he is no Randy.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I guess it really depends on how you define a big game. There have been two teams that he has been on where the team could be considered "in contention." This year and 2007. I dont really count 2009 because I dont think they were ever within 5 games of a playoff spot once August hit but I cant fully remember.

Keep in mind before yesterday's start he was 1-0 w/ a 0.98 ERA in 4 September starts. I think all his September starts were "big games"
-He threw 7 shutout innings against the Angels last week but didnt win for obvious reasons
-Gave up 2 runs in 7 innings to Oakland and didnt win and threw 6 shut out innings against Houston so he could have easily been 4-0 instead of 1-0 this month which is the story of his career.

I dont think Felix is as dominate as Randy was and probably wont ever be. Just keep in mind the margin for error for Randy was/is much larger then for Felix. Randy had the benefit of not only a compentant offense but a good offense when he was here. The game wasnt necessarily over on a day he gave up 2or 3 runs. Typically Felix doesnt have that luxury and there is so much put on him to be perfect.

Obviously for what we pay Felix and the situation I was extremely disappointed with his start yesterday. Not sure if he just didnt have hit or mentally checked out. Possibly a little of both.

Just my two cents for what its worth

 

[BSUSeahawk]

He's never really pitched in any. And as SeattleCoug said, he was dominating in September until yesterday.

As disappointing as his Tuesday start was, it likely didn't matter. Our odds to make the playoffs (WC round) were around 8% before he even through a pitch.

 

[NWinAZ]

Just to touch on the Randy comment, Randy also played in a very hitter friendly park and still dominated.

Maybe true about Felix, but I just don't see him being that one guy who when you absolutely need a game late in the year will rise to the occasion. He will pitch well, but not a Randy or Clemens or even a Lester in my opinion. I feel he is more in the Price category than say the Halladay one.

 

[SeattleCoug]

You may be right but I just don't think we have enough data on him in those situations to go off of to make a firm assumption on him as a guy who cant win big games.

Some of the guys you mentioned had a few bad starts in crucial situations. Randy wasn't at his best in Game 6 against Indians 95. I remember Lester laying an egg along with the whole Red Sox staff when they blew the playoffs in 2011. Even Kershaw was awful in the game where the Dodgers were eliminated from LCS last year. Difference is those guys have had many chances to prove themselves because they have been in playoff chases year in and year out.

Felix really just had meaningful baseball in this September. He had 4 pretty good games and 1 awful game. Unfortunately the awful game was the most important and the most recent so its what will stick in our heads and likely his head as well. You can only hope that's not his last chance and he will get another shot some year.

 

[wazzu31]

I don't think it is really fair to compare Felix to Randy. Randy had a much better offense, was allowed to throw 130 plus pitches so he could afford to get to three ball counts alot better. Randy gave up several moonshots when he pitched for the Mariners but it was just an eh my offense will get that back. If Felix gives up a homerun he basically has to pitch perfect. When Randy has been in big games he hasn't had to be the man nor do I think he has been unhittable. He had the offense in Seattle, pitched against horrible NL with the Astros and was second fiddle to Schilling with the DBacks.

As for him pitching well in big games, that is all a matter of perspective. He has pitched well during these big game stretches. Had it not been for how piss poor the rest of the pitchers have pitched Felix would've been pulled sooner. I'd consider his games against the Yankees and Red Sox would also classify at big games since A. the world was watching B. before and after the game all anyone would talk about is which of those teams he was going to once he hit free agency. Every pitcher has at least one bad game a year and it is just a shame that his poor game happened and that the team was ill equipped to bail him out.

 

[PolarVortex]

Has Felix ever won a big game? Not being mean, but I was trying to think if he has ever done that. I wouldn't count any games before the A.S. break. I wouldn't count any game when your team has been eliminated whether it be mathematical or just obvious.

Obviously he hasn't has many opps to do so, but it just seem he falters in big games. I like the guy and he is good for Seattle, but he is no Randy.

No. His record is 0-1.

 

[cezero]

I'd say he's had exactly 1 big game, and it was against the Jays a few days ago.

Nobody has any idea how good he is under playoff-type pressure based on 1 game. We probably will never find out, unfortunately.

 

[wazzu31]

But what makes the Blue Jays start anymore of a big game than the rest of his September starts? Weren't his other start where his era was sub 1 when the M's were closer to a playoff spot?

 

[StanMarsh51]

I don't think it is really fair to compare Felix to Randy. Randy had a much better offense, was allowed to throw 130 plus pitches so he could afford to get to three ball counts alot better.

That makes no sense whatsoever...

If anything, throwing more pitches would have an adverse effect on a pitcher, given that it gives batters more looks at a pitcher and a pitcher with a higher workload will generally tire out quicker over the course of a full season...how are either of those an advantage for Johnson?

 

[gowazzu02]

He pitched lights out the Night court game. At that point in the season that was a huge game. ....offense didn't do anything though

 

[NWinAZ]

Hard to say I guess. Just watching the games, it seemed like when they needed to hold a team to 2 runs he gave up 3. Asking a lot I know, but that is what he gets paid for. This is what I see at the end of the day.

June ERA: 1.22
July ERA: 1.70
Aug ERA: 3.31
Sept ERA: 3.03

Maybe it isn't the big game factor as much as the late season fatigue factor. I guess I expect more as the season heads towards its end.

Career ERA by month Felix/RJ:
April/March: 2.55/3.74
May; 4.20/3.59
June: 2.63/3.14
July: 2.62/3.41
August: 3.06/2.92
Sept/Oct: 3.55/2.97

 

[wazzu31]

That makes no sense whatsoever...

If anything, throwing more pitches would have an adverse effect on a pitcher, given that it gives batters more looks at a pitcher and a pitcher with a higher workload will generally tire out quicker over the course of a full season...how are either of those an advantage for Johnson?

You can't compare the workload of pitchers who pitched 100 pitches with ease as opposed to pitchers nowadays that are out of the game at 100. The more pitches is a higher workload if your body isn't conditioned for it but old school pitchers bodies were conditioned from spring training on. No way would a pitcher nowadays finish the game off that Randy had his 19 k's in because he was at 140 pitches (I believe or around there) It's a contradiction when comparing the two because todays baseball is not the same at the 1995 baseball game. But that is just my personal opinion that baseball has become to specialized and the money involved baseball has become more about fear of pitching.

 

[wazzu31]

Hard to say I guess. Just watching the games, it seemed like when they needed to hold a team to 2 runs he gave up 3. Asking a lot I know, but that is what he gets paid for. This is what I see at the end of the day.

June ERA: 1.22
July ERA: 1.70
Aug ERA: 3.31
Sept ERA: 3.03

Maybe it isn't the big game factor as much as the late season fatigue factor. I guess I expect more as the season heads towards its end.

Career ERA by month Felix/RJ:
April/March: 2.55/3.74
May; 4.20/3.59
June: 2.63/3.14
July: 2.62/3.41
August: 3.06/2.92
Sept/Oct: 3.55/2.97

Wasn't Felix's era sub 1 before the Blue Jay game? I really think that it is a hard comparison comparing Felix to Randy but Randy dominated people, if he didn't have his A stuff he still had his 99 MPH fastball to blow people away. Felix doesn't have a dominant fastball. I'm sure he still loses but comparing him more to a guy like Glavine.

Either my firm belief is that if he had even a decent offense his numbers would be better especially with his emotions. He has become alot better at controlling them than years past but I still think it tires mentally on him and if affects his pitches.

 

[NWinAZ]

You could be write. Sometimes trying to be too perfect can cause you to make mistakes you may not make if you know you have a cushion.

Maybe I am too hard on him because he is suppose to be that Cy Young caliber ACE yet in a tied game (because offense can't score) he gives up a big run late. Again, not knocking Felix as a good pitcher but so many people believe if we could just get to the playoffs Felix could carry us like a Johnson or a Schilling or a Clemons and I just don't see that. I believe he could give us a chance, but not a guy who can put the team on his back and say hold on I got this. RJ spoiled me yet M's wouldn't invest half of what they invested on Felix.

Good stuff and good discussion.

 

[wazzu31]

You could be write. Sometimes trying to be too perfect can cause you to make mistakes you may not make if you know you have a cushion.

Maybe I am too hard on him because he is suppose to be that Cy Young caliber ACE yet in a tied game (because offense can't score) he gives up a big run late. Again, not knocking Felix as a good pitcher but so many people believe if we could just get to the playoffs Felix could carry us like a Johnson or a Schilling or a Clemons and I just don't see that. I believe he could give us a chance, but not a guy who can put the team on his back and say hold on I got this. RJ spoiled me yet M's wouldn't invest half of what they invested on Felix.

Good stuff and good discussion.

Agree, what they did to Randy was fucked up and just as unprofessional as the Montero situation. I just think Felix would be fine for the Mariners if they were to actually make the playoffs assuming that if they made the playoffs they had a playoff caliber offense. Nothing to go on but a feeling but the jury was out on Randy as well prior to the 95 one game playoff.

 

[NWinAZ]

Yup, yup.

 

[NWinAZ]

Tomorrow should be a real test for my question. Last outing counted as a big game as well and that didn't go well so hopefully this one goes differently.

 

[seattlefan75]

well all we can do is hope we win and tie with oakland than there is your big game oakland vs seattle for a playoff spot

 

[SeattleCoug]

Really glad he gets another shot. Would have been a bummer for that Toronto game to hang over him all off season.