Serious question for Lakers fans

[tuffydahog]

I want to know what you think of Mike D'antoni.

As a Phoenix Suns fan, I absolutely despise Mike D'antoni. I believe he is primarily responsible for the 2005-2008 Suns not winning a championship. He made so many horrible coaching mistakes in the playoffs that there is probably not enough room here to mention them all. Now I believe he is the main reason that Dwight Howard left the Lakers and he is the reason why Kobe was playing 48 minutes a game, which broke down Kobe's body. He is scared of Kobe and was afraid to sit him, which is something that Phil Jackson would have no problem doing.

But I want to know what you guys think of him. Do you like him at all, or do you feel the same way I do?

 

[trojanfan12]

I think most Lakers fans consider him an upgrade from Mike Brown, but we'd rather have Phil!!

For myself, I think D'Antoni was put in an impossible situation last season and did the best he could. I am willing to give him 2-3 seasons to show what he can do.

As for 2005-2008, the Suns are my 2nd favorite team because, my aunts had season tickets and used to take me to games (I'm talking as far back as the Dick Van Arsdale days) so I watched them pretty closely those years. I'm don't recall much in the way of egregious coaching errors by D'Antoni!!

I do remember Robert Horry cross-checking Steve Nash into the boards one season and that cost the Suns a chance at the finals!!

If there were egregious coaching errors (and I'm not questioning you, I just don't remember them) I hope that he has learned from them!!

D'Antoni may have been part of the reason Dwight left, but that says more about Dwight than D'Antoni!! Dwight didn't want to run pick and roll which the center does a lot in D'Antoni's system. So he goes to a team that runs a lot of pick and roll?!?

As for Kobe's minutes, Kobe played those minutes because he had to for the Lakers to make the playoffs. Every doctor that I have seen comment on Kobe's injury said that the minutes he played had absolutely nothing to with him getting injured. In fact, they said it could have happened just as easily stepping off of a curb. It's an injury that just happens sometimes.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I want to know what you think of Mike D'antoni.

As a Phoenix Suns fan, I absolutely despise Mike D'antoni. I believe he is primarily responsible for the 2005-2008 Suns not winning a championship. He made so many horrible coaching mistakes in the playoffs that there is probably not enough room here to mention them all. Now I believe he is the main reason that Dwight Howard left the Lakers and he is the reason why Kobe was playing 48 minutes a game, which broke down Kobe's body. He is scared of Kobe and was afraid to sit him, which is something that Phil Jackson would have no problem doing.

But I want to know what you guys think of him. Do you like him at all, or do you feel the same way I do?

If you don't coach defense first in the NBA, you aren't winning championships.

It is as simple as that.

 

[Kold]

I would've MUCH rathered Phil and Dwight left primarily because of him. While I think he misused Dwight, as TF12 pointed out, I was very suprised to find out that Dwight plain refused to run the p&r. He's the best roll guy in the NBA and refused to consistently do so....so that SORT OF cut Dantoni's nose off to spite his face. Also, as much as I disagree with Turnup, I agree that Dantoni has to atleast get a defensive coordinator on staff and preach defense first. I will say this though....if Dantoni ever got the right pieces in to run his system, his team would be a serious contender. I also hate his adjustments and substitustion patterns though. Steve Nash and Steve Blake on the court at the same time is not quite appealing defensively. Maybe that will change with the new additions however. Oh and as TF pointed out, you guys had the title that 1 year when Horry hip checked Nash.

 

[Rambunctious]

I was glad that Phil didn't come back...he went out on top as he should have. Coach D will be OK. The Lakers could have done worse.

 

[Rambunctious]

...and another thing. Howard was weak last season and won't be much better this season with the Rockets.

 

[bluepigpen]

I would have liked to have Brian Shaw start his head coaching career with the Lakers. He learned the game from Phil Jackson and Phil is the best coach of all time. DA is another Paul Westhead, run the floor and score in 13 seconds but don't really worry about the other end because we will out score you. That is OK if the team was built to score, but the Lakers were half and half. I am glad Dwight is gone and as long as Shorty isn't going to fire DA, then build the run and gun. At least the entertainment value will be there until they run out of gas. I just want the Lakers to win championships and no defense doesn't usually stay until the finals.

 

[tuffydahog]

Well it sounds like you guys do not mind D'antoni that much and seem to put more of the blame on Howard.

I will say this about D'antoni: since he has left the Suns, he has made the playoffs twice and gotten swept both times. He has coached against Gregg Popovich four times and is 0-4 against him with a career head to head record of 4-16. He has only won a total of 4 games out of 20 against Popovich in the playoffs. That is so bad.
And Trojan Fan said he does not remember D'antoni making bad decisions, so I will give examples of D'antoni's coaching incompetence.

In 2005, the Suns had Nash, Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson, Quentin Richardson, and Jim Jackson, with Nash, Amare, and Marion in their primes. Johnson missed the first two games against the Spurs in 2005 but the Suns were still playing great. The Suns had leads in the fourth quarter in the first two games but were just atrocious defensively in the fourth quarter of both games and lost them. I was at game two sitting nearly courtside and I remember at one point, Quentin Richardson was guarding Robert Horry in the fourth quarter and he drained a three right over him. D'antoni's refusal to play big lineups was pathetic. They lost the series 4 games to 1.

In 2007, the Suns had the series tied 2-2 and were playing without Amare and Diaw in game 5 in Phoenix and were winning the entire game. They were winning at the end of the game and for some psychotic reason, D'antoni took out Kurt Thomas in the final minutes and substituted him for James Jones. This forced Marion to cover Tim Duncan and the Suns were awful defensively at the end of the game because of D'antoni's infatuation with small lineups and they blew game 5 and lost the series 4 games to 2.

In 2008, the Suns were winning game one in the final seconds by three and D'antoni chose not to foul and make the game a free throw shooting contest. Michael Finley hits a three pointer and sends the game to overtime. In overtime, the Suns again are winning by three and D'antoni again chooses not to foul in the final seconds. Tim Duncan then hits a wide open three to tie the game and send it to double overtime. The Suns lost in double overtime, lost all the momentum they would have had, and lose the series 4 games to 1.

Just look at the Suns vs. Lakers series in 2006. Besides Kobe, who was clearly the best player in the world, and Lamar Odom, the Lakers had no one. Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Kwame Brown, and Brian Cook were the other primary players on the Lakers. The Suns were stacked with Nash, Marion, Bell, Diaw, Barbosa, Tim Thomas, James Jones, and Eddie House. Yet that series went seven games and the Suns were nearly ousted because D'antoni was getting completely outcoached by Phil Jackson. It was embarrassing.

D'antoni refuses to develop a bench and that drives his players into the ground. Look what happened to Kobe. And D'antoni will not teach defense, ever. He is too stubborn and he consistently gets outcoached.

Sorry about this rant but these were the examples for Trojan Fan as to why I believe D'antoni is a terrible coach.

 

[Hangman]

I detest D'Antoni. He is awful as a coach and his system blows. He is even worse than Mike Brown who was pure shit as a coach. There are so many other coaches I would rather have coaching high school. Brian Shaw was my first choice. I hope we fire D'Antoni after a few weeks when the Lakers are sucking and then the Lakers really suck for a great first round pick.

 

[Retroram52]

I agree with Hangman. Last year when he had all of that talent he often appeared confused on the sidelines and many of his decisions during the game were simply stupid and made little sense. He seemed disconnected from his team most of the time and half the time his rotations and substitutions didn't fit the opponent. When he did make a move, it was wait late in the game and often did not work. He just seemed he did not know what to do the majority of the time and I dubbed him Don'tknowi. He was not an upgrade over Mike Brown. Both are and were with the Lakers krappy ass coaches.

I am with Blue on this one. Brian Shaw was the man for the job. And of course that did not occur. So you have my thumbs down vote for this dope.

 

[geneh_33]

I predict that D'Antoni will not coach more than one more year at LAL. After another down year next year they will let him go is my prediction.

 

[Retroram52]

I concur Geneh_33. I like your avi. That was bad ass car back-in-the day especially that 340, six pack. When they shoe-horned the 440 magnum into that thing, what a bullet. But the 340 was a badass engine in it own right.

 

[rmilia1]

I love the style that teams coached by D'antoni play but I dont think you can win a title playing like that. Of course this particular version of the Lakers cant win a title anyway so at least they be entertaining to watch. IF he gets guys in there fit to run his system then it will be easier to see how well he coaches them up. Of course the argument then ebcomes that a really GREAT coach should be able to tweek his sytem to fit the talent and MDA hasnt shown the ability or want to do that.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

D'Antoni and Nash's fate are intertwined. Nash must see something in the dude right?

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Wrong choice

I don't think Dantoni was the primary reason Howard left...at the same time I did not, and do not like the hire. Given most of the key guys played under Phil Jackson...Brian Shaw from a system standpoint was the guy. I understand handing the keys to a franchise like the LAL to a rookie HC is risky but flanked with some veteran assistants I thought it was the best move.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I love the style that teams coached by D'antoni play but I dont think you can win a title playing like that. Of course this particular version of the Lakers cant win a title anyway so at least they be entertaining to watch. IF he gets guys in there fit to run his system then it will be easier to see how well he coaches them up. Of course the argument then ebcomes that a really GREAT coach should be able to tweek his sytem to fit the talent and MDA hasnt shown the ability or want to do that.

Great style for the 82 game grind out west, but it's not playoff basketball (what the LAL are all about)...plus I don't think it works with a bunch of 30 somethings.

 

[trojanfan12]

Well it sounds like you guys do not mind D'antoni that much and seem to put more of the blame on Howard.

I will say this about D'antoni: since he has left the Suns, he has made the playoffs twice and gotten swept both times. He has coached against Gregg Popovich four times and is 0-4 against him with a career head to head record of 4-16. He has only won a total of 4 games out of 20 against Popovich in the playoffs. That is so bad.
And Trojan Fan said he does not remember D'antoni making bad decisions, so I will give examples of D'antoni's coaching incompetence.

In 2005, the Suns had Nash, Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson, Quentin Richardson, and Jim Jackson, with Nash, Amare, and Marion in their primes. Johnson missed the first two games against the Spurs in 2005 but the Suns were still playing great. The Suns had leads in the fourth quarter in the first two games but were just atrocious defensively in the fourth quarter of both games and lost them. I was at game two sitting nearly courtside and I remember at one point, Quentin Richardson was guarding Robert Horry in the fourth quarter and he drained a three right over him. D'antoni's refusal to play big lineups was pathetic. They lost the series 4 games to 1.

In 2007, the Suns had the series tied 2-2 and were playing without Amare and Diaw in game 5 in Phoenix and were winning the entire game. They were winning at the end of the game and for some psychotic reason, D'antoni took out Kurt Thomas in the final minutes and substituted him for James Jones. This forced Marion to cover Tim Duncan and the Suns were awful defensively at the end of the game because of D'antoni's infatuation with small lineups and they blew game 5 and lost the series 4 games to 2.

In 2008, the Suns were winning game one in the final seconds by three and D'antoni chose not to foul and make the game a free throw shooting contest. Michael Finley hits a three pointer and sends the game to overtime. In overtime, the Suns again are winning by three and D'antoni again chooses not to foul in the final seconds. Tim Duncan then hits a wide open three to tie the game and send it to double overtime. The Suns lost in double overtime, lost all the momentum they would have had, and lose the series 4 games to 1.

Just look at the Suns vs. Lakers series in 2006. Besides Kobe, who was clearly the best player in the world, and Lamar Odom, the Lakers had no one. Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Kwame Brown, and Brian Cook were the other primary players on the Lakers. The Suns were stacked with Nash, Marion, Bell, Diaw, Barbosa, Tim Thomas, James Jones, and Eddie House. Yet that series went seven games and the Suns were nearly ousted because D'antoni was getting completely outcoached by Phil Jackson. It was embarrassing.

D'antoni refuses to develop a bench and that drives his players into the ground. Look what happened to Kobe. And D'antoni will not teach defense, ever. He is too stubborn and he consistently gets outcoached.

Sorry about this rant but these were the examples for Trojan Fan as to why I believe D'antoni is a terrible coach.

I remember some of that now. One thing I will say in D'Antoni's defense though is that there is a very loooooong list of guys who have been outcoached by Pop and Phil!!

Also, you mentioned D'Antoni refusing to play big lineups. What big lineups did the Suns have? Amare has power forward size and he was the center.

Yes, D'Antoni made mistakes, all coaches do and since he's going to be coaching the Lakers, I hope he's learned from them. Considering the team that he had, I think he did pretty well. There are alot of guys who earned themselves some pretty big paydays playing for D'Antoni's Suns!!

Personally, I always felt the Suns were one player away during those years and wondered why management didn't seem to be willing to spend the money to get that one more guy!!

 

[trojanfan12]

I agree with Hangman. Last year when he had all of that talent he often appeared confused on the sidelines and many of his decisions during the game were simply stupid and made little sense. He seemed disconnected from his team most of the time and half the time his rotations and substitutions didn't fit the opponent. When he did make a move, it was wait late in the game and often did not work. He just seemed he did not know what to do the majority of the time and I dubbed him Don'tknowi. He was not an upgrade over Mike Brown. Both are and were with the Lakers krappy ass coaches.

I am with Blue on this one. Brian Shaw was the man for the job. And of course that did not occur. So you have my thumbs down vote for this dope.

I think you're being a little too hard on D'Antoni. Remember the circumstances last season.

Mike Brown was the coach and D'Antoni was having surgery.

5 games into the season, Brown gets fired. D'Antoni is recovering from his surgery and gets contacted by the Lakers.

Then the Lakers also Contact Phil. Everybody in the world (including D'Antoni) thought it was Phil's job. D'Antoni figures it's time to settle in and finish his recovery when he gets called and told he's coaching the Lakers.

He comes to the Lakers and has to try to install his system on a team that had spent the entire pre-season and first 5 games of the regular season running a completely different system which was completley different from the system that they had run the season before under Brown and different from the system they ran the season before that under Phil. Basically, they were on their 4th offensive system in 3 years.

Then, the guy that he was counting on to help speed up the learning process suffers a freak injury, is out for 2 months and in never really healthy again for the rest of the season.

Add to that, all of the other injuries and I'm not convinced another coach could have done much better.

Not saying D'Antoni is a great coach or that the Lakers can win championships with him at the helm (remains to be seen), but I think I'd like to at least give him at least a couple with the types of players that the Lakers can afford before firing him and bringing in yet ANOTHER coach (unless of course Phil says he wants the job)!!

 

[lakersrule]

TF12....add to that a player who refused to even run the system. MDA was in a tough position last season.

 

[Retroram52]

Well then. I shall wait to see how Don'tknowi emerges with a full year under his belt and a training camp completed. If I have to eat crow, I will do so and you'll both know about it!