Screwed if don’t take a NT in 1st?

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

13th it's Guice.. stop the vea and payne talk ,Vea will not make it to 13 payne is slipping fast

 

[Sharkinva]

Even with Allen the line wasn't that good its needs a major upgrade with 1-Vea 2-Payne

YOu are missing the point. Dean is pushing the narrative hat all we need on the line is a NT, and that Payne or Vea are only an NT. His yearly mancrush this year is Fitzpatrick. Give it another few days and he will start spinning it that we should consider trading UP to get Fitzpatrick. Its what he does every year around draft time. You'll get used to it.

 

[skinsdad62]

umm secondary was a problem last year.

9th best ? i dont think so

 

[Sharkinva]

9th best ? i dont think so

We are now going by the Ricky Bobby ranking scale when it fits the argument...

 

[skinsdad62]

We are now going by the Ricky Bobby ranking scale when it fits the argument...
And if it’s weaker then who did it ? We got rid of fuller , BB. And hell sewer cravens .

Now didn’t i mention the trade made us weaker in the secondary and was told fm and hosley with Dunbar would fix it and now we have a huge hole there now ????????

Enough of one that we need a jack of all trades to fill the sewer cravens non role bump Nicholson from FS and take snaps from the replacements ( hosley , Dunbar fm ) while we watch the Mcflies lead us to 31 vs the rush ? Wait !!!!! We have Ziggy and David Bowie

 

[deanpet21]

9th best ? i dont think so

We had no safety that could play center field when Nicholson went down. Norman had a bad year. BB was just average at best. Again with the stats. Watch the games. We were getting torched last year. Put in the Vikings, SD , and NO tapes and tell me that we were a top 10 secondary.

 

[skinsdad62]

We had no safety that could play center field when Nicholson went down. Norman had a bad year. BB was just average at best. Again with the stats. Watch the games. We were getting torched last year. Put in the Vikings, SD , and NO tapes and tell me that we were a top 10 secondary.

so we spend a 13th overall for a backup safety ? hello

 

[skinsdad62]

Stopping the run matters quite a bit, too. And that area plummeted without Allen (and with Ioannidis hurt). It shifted other defensive linemen into more snaps and larger roles, and that, in turn, diminished their effectiveness. The Redskins ranked last in rushing yards allowed per game and were 29th in yards per carry allowed.

Washington hasn’t been ranked in the top half in either category since 2014, and it hasn’t been in the top 10 in one of them since 2012. Consequently, the Redskins haven’t ranked in the top 10 as a defense in both yards and points allowed since 2008. And they haven’t been among the top 10 in even one of those categories since 2009 (10th in yards). Further troubling stats: They haven’t even ranked in the top half of the NFL in one of those categories since 2011 (13th in yards).

nuff said

 

[Sharkinva]

Stopping the run matters quite a bit, too. And that area plummeted without Allen (and with Ioannidis hurt). It shifted other defensive linemen into more snaps and larger roles, and that, in turn, diminished their effectiveness. The Redskins ranked last in rushing yards allowed per game and were 29th in yards per carry allowed.

Washington hasn’t been ranked in the top half in either category since 2014, and it hasn’t been in the top 10 in one of them since 2012. Consequently, the Redskins haven’t ranked in the top 10 as a defense in both yards and points allowed since 2008. And they haven’t been among the top 10 in even one of those categories since 2009 (10th in yards). Further troubling stats: They haven’t even ranked in the top half of the NFL in one of those categories since 2011 (13th in yards).

nuff said

But we need another safety more.

 

[Stymietee]

Here's the question(s) that I have for all of you BPA guys. If Vea and Payne are there and we take either, aren't we drafting more for BPA at position of need than purely BPA?

I can see both having good NFL careers but surely there are others who would be available to us at 13 who are going to be much better NFL players over their careers. I'm not suggesting that we take them, just wondering how you BPA guys felt about NOT doing so when our selection comes up.

 

[gkekoa]

Here's the question(s) that I have for all of you BPA guys. If Vea and Payne are there and we take either, aren't we drafting more for BPA at position of need than purely BPA?

I can see both having good NFL careers but surely there are others who would be available to us at 13 who are going to be much better NFL players over their careers. I'm not suggesting that we take them, just wondering how you BPA guys felt about NOT doing so when our selection comes up.

It is impossible to say how we individually grade them. Do we grade them with the word value added? Do we grade them on expected performance? Do we grade them on upside?

 

[Sharkinva]

For all the talk of best player available.... Need and team fit ALWAYS factor in or at least always should factor in.

If the best player available is a genetic clone of Darrell Green, but you already have 20 year old clones of Revis and Champ Bailey and you got Norman clone for depth, and you cant trade out of the pick..... you cant really justify taking young Darrell if you also have Young dexter Manley (minus the drugs of course) also sitting on deck and your D-line consists of Coach, Dean, Cali and Manster.

All this to say

1. Rank players
2. Rank team needs
3. Cross reference best player with team need and determine who the best player available that also fits into a realistic team need is

Best player that fits a need usually ends up being the best player available on YOUR teams board.

 

[Ruzious]

Here's the question(s) that I have for all of you BPA guys. If Vea and Payne are there and we take either, aren't we drafting more for BPA at position of need than purely BPA?

I can see both having good NFL careers but surely there are others who would be available to us at 13 who are going to be much better NFL players over their careers. I'm not suggesting that we take them, just wondering how you BPA guys felt about NOT doing so when our selection comes up.

I think a case can be made for Vea being BPA at 13 - obviously depending on whether or not someone slides that shouldn't. The Ngata comps seem legit. Say haloti my big friend and newest Skin, Vita Vea. Ok, I'll keep my day job. Payne otoh, I don't think of him as a top half of the 1st round value pick AND... I don't think he'd be a real good fit with the Skins, because he's not known as the great run-stopper that Vea is. So Payne fails both tests to me - he's not a BPA pick, and he doesn't truly fill the need of a dominant run-stuffer. Vea passes both tests - arguably BPA (though if Minkah is there, he's likely BPA), and he fills a giant need.

 

[BigFin]

Fitz is a good DB prospect, but a prototype NT prospect doesn't come along often.

 

[Ruzious]

Fitz is a good DB prospect, but a prototype NT prospect doesn't come along often.

He's a GREAT DB prospect, and I think most NFL people have him rated slightly higher than Vea.

 

[gkekoa]

I think Payne is a bit more athletic than Vea; however, if you factor in size, then the size/athleticism combo may swing back to Vea.

If you don’t think Payne is a run stopper, ask Georgia how dominant he was.

As for Fitz, he has tremendous athleticism but did his on field contributions match that athleticism, especially when you consider how good the front 7 was.

 

[Ruzious]

Fitz is a good DB prospect, but a prototype NT prospect doesn't come along often.

I think Payne is a bit more athletic than Vea; however, if you factor in size, then the size/athleticism combo may swing back to Vea.

If you don’t think Payne is a run stopper, ask Georgia how dominant he was.

As for Fitz, he has tremendous athleticism but did his on field contributions match that athleticism, especially when you consider how good the front 7 was.

If you don't think it did, you are the 1 person in the world. I personally don't scout college football, so I read and listen and watch some highlights. It's funny how they only show good plays on highlights.

Anyway, every report on Fitz says he can and has played at an elite level at either safety, nickel corner, and blitzer lining up at LBer.

On Payne, you get a lot of mixed views - unlike with VV and Fitz. It's not about athleticism; it's about run-stuffing. And I've seen too many comments about him not being a run-stuffing NT. It's not me saying it; it's others that are more knowledgable than me that I hear saying it.

 

[gkekoa]

If you don't think it did, you are the 1 person in the world. I personally don't scout college football, so I read and listen and watch some highlights. It's funny how they only show good plays on highlights.

Anyway, every report on Fitz says he can and has played at an elite level at either safety, nickel corner, and blitzer lining up at LBer.

On Payne, you get a lot of mixed views - unlike with VV and Fitz. It's not about athleticism; it's about run-stuffing. And I've seen too many comments about him not being a run-stuffing NT. It's not me saying it; it's others that are more knowledgable than me that I hear saying it.

I am very similar to you. I don’t watch a great deal of college football but read quite a bit.

Kiper believes his versatility could hurt his draft status. I think he is a safety, much in the line of Ed Reed. I wouldn’t be disappointed by the pick and wouldn’t be disappointed by Vea or even Payne. I think Alabama players are the hardest to judge because the surrounding talent there makes everybody look good...except Jalen Hurts who just sucks.

That being said, I expect disappointment in this pick. I expect Guice or even worse, Calvin Ridley.

 

[Sharkinva]

He's a GREAT DB prospect, and I think most NFL people have him rated slightly higher than Vea.

Agreed, he is a great prospect.

But here is the problem.

When you have the worst rushing defense in the league, and it isnt even close for years running, you cant really justify taking another DB unless there isnt a D-lineman even remotely worthy of the pick.

If Vea and Payne are both drafted ahead of Fitzpatrick, the smart play would be to try and trade down, get more draft picks and let Fitz go be the highlight show else where.

The only way Im taking Fitzpatrick is if...

1. Payne and Vea have both been drafted
2. He is still on the board and we cant get a trade partner

Now if by some chance all three are still on the board, and some one wants to trade up a spot or two to take him, and I can still get the D-lineman and add say a 3rd rounder... then Im doing the trade.


At the end of the day, a great DB behind a shitty D-line is simply Josh Norman circa 2017.