Scary news about Manny Burriss

[MarcoPolo]

{{ I'm not sure how you all handle threads here - more or less is better? Is this sort of news scary/noteworthy enough for it's own thread, or would you normally put something like this in the "Spring Training" thread???}}

Twitter:

Alex Pavlovic ‏ @AlexPavlovic
RT @jaysonst: Giants telling teams today they're shopping Ryan Theriot and Mike Fontenot. Possible fit for Braves, Phillies.

Alex Pavlovic ‏ @AlexPavlovic
Giants have 6 days until Theriot, Font contracts are fully guaranteed. If they're shopping them, looks like Burriss will be opening day 2B.

Andrew Baggarly ‏ @CSNBaggs
I was told today that Burriss would be the opening day second baseman if #SFGiants had to choose now.


This is very scary to me. Very, very scary. I can not believe that they would keep Burriss over either of Theriot or Fontenot. Maybe it's just that they feel they could actually get something in return for T or F, but not Burriss.

 

[mistgl]

{{ I'm not sure how you all handle threads here - more or less is better? Is this sort of news scary/noteworthy enough for it's own thread, or would you normally put something like this in the "Spring Training" thread???}}

Twitter:

Alex Pavlovic ‏ @AlexPavlovic
RT @jaysonst: Giants telling teams today they're shopping Ryan Theriot and Mike Fontenot. Possible fit for Braves, Phillies.

Alex Pavlovic ‏ @AlexPavlovic
Giants have 6 days until Theriot, Font contracts are fully guaranteed. If they're shopping them, looks like Burriss will be opening day 2B.

Andrew Baggarly ‏ @CSNBaggs
I was told today that Burriss would be the opening day second baseman if #SFGiants had to choose now.


This is very scary to me. Very, very scary. I can not believe that they would keep Burriss over either of Theriot or Fontenot. Maybe it's just that they feel they could actually get something in return for T or F, but not Burriss.

I guess they're hoping for a repeat performance of 2008.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

I read that article this morning and thought to myself "That's great news." I hope they ship Theriot out over Fonte. What's the worry? He's younger, quicker, cheaper, and better defensively. I like it.

 

[tzill]

I read that article this morning and thought to myself "That's great news." I hope they ship Theriot out over Fonte. What's the worry? He's younger, quicker, cheaper, and better defensively. I like it.

He can't hit at the major league level:

http://www.baycityball.com/2012/03/18/considering-manny-burriss/

 

[ColinCoby]

He can't hit at the major league level:

http://www.baycityball.com/2012/03/18/considering-manny-burriss/

How much of his struggles can we blame on his past foot injuries? Not trying to make excuses for the guy; just wondering.

I hope he works out. The article clearly points out that Burriss has been pretty horrible at the plate, but it's not as if Theriot was anything special last year.

 

[tzill]

How much of his struggles can we blame on his past foot injuries? Not trying to make excuses for the guy; just wondering.

I hope he works out. The article clearly points out that Burriss has been pretty horrible at the plate, but it's not as if Theriot was anything special last year.

Theriot last year vs. LHP:

310/356/413 105 OPS+

Theriot lifetime vs. LHP:

301/373/401 122 tOPS+

Burriss lifetime:

250/311/281 60 OPS+

no significant difference hitting LH vs. RH. I don't know if Riot qualifies as "special," but against LHP he's a major league hitter.

I can't say that for Manny from either side of the plate.

 

[CameronFrye]

I keep hearing that Burriss won't make it through waivers. So why not go out there ant try to trade him right now? It's not like he's going to be a difference-maker in the Majors.

Go get a middle reliever or a prospect for him and send him on his merry way.

 

[ColinCoby]

Theriot last year vs. LHP:

310/356/413 105 OPS+

Theriot lifetime vs. LHP:

301/373/401 122 tOPS+

Burriss lifetime:

250/311/281 60 OPS+

no significant difference hitting LH vs. RH. I don't know if Riot qualifies as "special," but against LHP he's a major league hitter.

I can't say that for Manny from either side of the plate.

Thanks. Rep.

And Theriot can play short and give Crawford a breather when The Giants are facing a tough lefty..something Burriss can't do.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Theriot last year vs. LHP:

310/356/413 105 OPS+

Theriot lifetime vs. LHP:

301/373/401 122 tOPS+

Burriss lifetime:

250/311/281 60 OPS+

no significant difference hitting LH vs. RH. I don't know if Riot qualifies as "special," but against LHP he's a major league hitter.

I can't say that for Manny from either side of the plate.

The above was the reason for my scared reaction. WTF are the Giants thinking????

 

[filosofy29]

Listening to KNBR this morning, sounds like Manny is using a lighter bat now. Not sure if that is the main reason for his Spring Training stats or not, but thought I'd mention it. What is it with little guys using heavy bats? Torres was notorious for that as well. Hopefully, whether it's being healthy, using a lighter bat, having more confidence or whatever.....it sticks.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Burriss' spring in 2009 : .345/.418/.437/.855 (95 PAs, most on the team)
Burriss' MLB stats of 2009 : .238/.292/.267/.560
(Burriss wasn't injured in the majors in '09 - he was injured after getting sent down.)

That's real bad - that's Neifi-bad !

 

[calsnowskier]

Burriss' spring in 2009 : .345/.418/.437/.855 (95 PAs, most on the team)
Burriss' MLB stats of 2009 : .238/.292/.267/.560
(Burriss wasn't injured in the majors in '09 - he was injured after getting sent down.)

That's real bad - that's Neifi-bad !

That's also 3 years ago. It is my understanding that young players tend to improve over time. I may be wrong, though.

 

[msgkings322]

That's also 3 years ago. It is my understanding that young players tend to improve over time. I may be wrong, though.

Zing!

The bottom line is, when your starters get injured, by definition you have to plug the hole with a lesser guy. Manny Burriss may be a AAAA guy, but that's why Franchez is the starter. You gotta deal with injuries.

Now why they prefer him to the 'Ots, I don't know, but they know a lot more than I do and a little more than the rest of you knuckleheads.

Can Theriot play 2B? If so he should start there vs lefties and Fontenot vs righties IMO. But maybe they see something in Burriss and since they do that for a living, I hope they are right.

 

[jingo]

Besdies trying to guess which of the three will be a better 2b (both in the field and at the plate), they should also consider which of the three they want on the bench when ("if" for you pessimists) Freddy Sanchez returns. Obviously this will also impact the players that start the season on the bench. There may be times when they will want Manny's speed as a pinch runner versus the 1 or 2 extra hits per 20 ABs that Theriot provides (my apology if my math is a little off).

 

[SF11704]

Have to agree with MSG here. Management knows more than we do about what's actually happening on the field. I have to go with their plan. Doesn't mean I understand it though!

On another note ... the Astros released both Dukes and Cust today because of poor spring performances. I can remember when I thought they would both be good options for us to look at. That would have been another 'not so good' plan on my part. Guess that's why I never got the call for the GM position .....

 

[calsnowskier]

Finances and opportunity cost also plays a role here.

If they with Font or The Riot, they need to trade/release Manny. If they go with Manny, they have to trade/release Font or Riot. What can they get in trade for each one? If they can get a better package for Font or Riot, than they go that route. IF they cant, they decide based on that.

 

[msgkings322]

Finances and opportunity cost also plays a role here.

If they with Font or The Riot, they need to trade/release Manny. If they go with Manny, they have to trade/release Font or Riot. What can they get in trade for each one? If they can get a better package for Font or Riot, than they go that route. IF they cant, they decide based on that.

Another good point.

That's why although it's fun to yak here about the moves they make and rag on the ones we don't agree with, there's so much more going on with their decisions that it's silly to get too upset about it. They are doing their best, and they know a lot more about all that goes on, and infinitely more about conversations with the players, the other GMs, etc.

And in the end it's still a lot of luck. Baseball has perhaps the most 'luck' of all the sports IMO. Think of how much perceptions change of certain GMs if something really small and out of their control happened another way. For example, would Theo Epstein be the savior of the Red Sox if Buckner hadn't muffed the 1986 World Series?

 

[MarcoPolo]

That's also 3 years ago. It is my understanding that young players tend to improve over time. I may be wrong, though.

Good one .

But Manny *hasn't* gotten better as he ages. Maybe this is his year, but so far he's gotten worse every season in the majors. As he gets older, instead of improving, he worsens.

2008 : .283/.357/.329/.686
2009 : .238/.292/.267/.560
2010 : (only had 5 PAs)
2011 : .204/.253/.212/.465

I hope that the Giants' brain trust knows what they are doing. It could be that that are simply waiting until every (most) team's 40-man roster is full (say, a week after the season starts) before placing Burriss on waivers. Or maybe Burriss is being talked up because they want to trade him, but don't want to make it obvious, so they are floating rumors of Font or Theriot.

I'd hate to lose Theriot, simply because he's always done well against LHP, and a SS/2B backup that can start or PH against lefties would be very useful.

It's also true that Burriss is (most likely) a cheaper alternative at 2B. Next year he will again be arb-eligible and if he plays well, he would probably be awarded close to what Theriot or Font would earn. If not, then he would probably be in the same situation as this year ("hey kid, take this low contract or we just cut you and you can take your chances getting signed by another team.") And Burriss has been "utilitied" to death the last year, taking spots at all kinds of new positions on the field.

I hope they make the right choice, but based on his history, Burriss isn't the right one. I actually hope I'm wrong in this case; a Burriss that is successful is better for the team than one that isn't.

 

[msgkings322]

Good one .

But Manny *hasn't* gotten better as he ages. Maybe this is his year, but so far he's gotten worse every season in the majors. As he gets older, instead of improving, he worsens.

2008 : .283/.357/.329/.686
2009 : .238/.292/.267/.560
2010 : (only had 5 PAs)
2011 : .204/.253/.212/.465

I hope that the Giants' brain trust knows what they are doing. It could be that that are simply waiting until every (most) team's 40-man roster is full (say, a week after the season starts) before placing Burriss on waivers. Or maybe Burriss is being talked up because they want to trade him, but don't want to make it obvious, so they are floating rumors of Font or Theriot.

I'd hate to lose Theriot, simply because he's always done well against LHP, and a SS/2B backup that can start or PH against lefties would be very useful.

It's also true that Burriss is (most likely) a cheaper alternative at 2B. Next year he will again be arb-eligible and if he plays well, he would probably be awarded close to what Theriot or Font would earn. If not, then he would probably be in the same situation as this year ("hey kid, take this low contract or we just cut you and you can take your chances getting signed by another team.") And Burriss has been "utilitied" to death the last year, taking spots at all kinds of new positions on the field.

I hope they make the right choice, but based on his history, Burriss isn't the right one. I actually hope I'm wrong in this case; a Burriss that is successful is better for the team than one that isn't.

Exactly. My motto is every time I disagree with the brass on a move, I hope I'm wrong. Because they are the ones in charge of the team I root for.

 

[MarcoPolo]

And we'll have an idea of what's going to happen pretty darn soon. I believe that the last day to cut a guy and not have to pay his full contract for the year is ... tomorrow (28th). Only 45-days pay would be due (about 1/4 of the contract).