Is LeBron James better than Michael Jordan?

[Beengay fudgepackers]

See that is the thing.

People are too fixated on the team result. It isn't the Cavs beating Boston that is impressive. It is LeBron's performance in those games that elevated his team and gave them a chance.

He can average 45-12-10 against golden state and the Cavs might still get swept.

And it will be the same narrative. The objective people will be talking about how great LeBron is and the haters will say the loss somehow diminishes his greatness. It does no such thing. Just like the win last night isn't the reason people are taking about him alongside Mike.

I get all that. The fact that Jordan did it with 1 team and Lebron picked his surrounding (both through FA and then he also had a ton of say on trades and signings with each team) is why I stick with Jordan here. Lebron helped build this team so that he could play the way he plays.

 

[ericd7633]

Interesting. Wonder how they compare including all games?

Don't have a clue. But that stat tells me Lebron has been more clutch in late game situations than MJ was, at least in the playoffs. For some reason there's this big myth out there that MJ never missed a shot in the clutch, and was flawless every single game. And I love MJ. It's like people can't look past 2011 when there's been 7 postseasons since then.

 

[DJ]

MJ was clutch every single time he got the ball. Lebron is pretty spectacular but he is not clutch every single time. MJ played incredible D. Lebron barely makes it to that side of the court.


Admittedly I am more of a casual fan of the game so this is with little watching of either's game.

MJ was 5 of 11 on buzzer beaters in the playoffs and James is 6 of 13 so there's that.

 

[Wamu]

MJ was clutch every single time he got the ball. Lebron is pretty spectacular but he is not clutch every single time. MJ played incredible D. Lebron barely makes it to that side of the court.


Admittedly I am more of a casual fan of the game so this is with little watching of either's game.

"MJ played incredible D. Lebron barely makes it to that side of the court"




You didn't need to say you're more of a casual fan. Your incorrect statement about LeBron's D proves you don't watch very often.

 

[jontaejones]

I get all that. The fact that Jordan did it with 1 team and Lebron picked his surrounding (both through FA and then he also had a ton of say on trades and signings with each team) is why I stick with Jordan here. Lebron helped build this team so that he could play the way he plays.

Since I was a Pistons fan when I was a kid, I saw them bitch-slap Jordan when he had a team of comparable power.

The only time MJ ever beat a time that was on a level playing field was the Lakers the next year. And they killed them, so they credit for that. But the Bulls were a good half notch above every other team they played going forward.

That said, it's still a toss-up.

 

[Godstree]

Don't have a clue. But that stat tells me Lebron has been more clutch in late game situations than MJ was, at least in the playoffs. For some reason there's this big myth out there that MJ never missed a shot in the clutch, and was flawless every single game. And I love MJ. It's like people can't look past 2011 when there's been 7 postseasons since then.

I did a google on the subject. Ranked the top 70 "clutch" players.

Top ten:

1. MJ
2. Larry Bird
3.Kobe
4. Magic
5. Reggie Miller
6. Jerry West
7. Isiah Thomas
8. Robert Horry
9. Derek Fisher
10. Chauncy Billups

They had Lebron ranked 16.

Grain of salt as I did not see actual stats.

Ranking 70 Most Clutch Players in NBA History: 70-60

Another list had Lebron at 10, MJ at 2 and Kobe 1.

Most Clutch Players in NBA History - Top Ten List - TheTopTens®

 

[Godstree]

"MJ played incredible D. Lebron barely makes it to that side of the court"




You didn't need to say you're more of a casual fan. Your incorrect statement about LeBron's D proves you don't watch very often.

Correct. But I when I flip on espn and see lebron, he is lazy on that side of the ball. Could be coincidence.

 

[Godstree]

MJ was 5 of 11 on buzzer beaters in the playoffs and James is 6 of 13 so there's that.

I saw that stat. No argument about it.

 

[Godstree]

Don't have a clue. But that stat tells me Lebron has been more clutch in late game situations than MJ was, at least in the playoffs. For some reason there's this big myth out there that MJ never missed a shot in the clutch, and was flawless every single game. And I love MJ. It's like people can't look past 2011 when there's been 7 postseasons since then.

Like I said I am very casual fan of BB. Maybe my distaste for Lebron has tainted me a bit. Maybe I bought in to that myth a bit.

 

[ericd7633]

I get all that. The fact that Jordan did it with 1 team and Lebron picked his surrounding (both through FA and then he also had a ton of say on trades and signings with each team) is why I stick with Jordan here. Lebron helped build this team so that he could play the way he plays.

Lebron was almost to great in his first 2 seasons. Cleveland got the #1 pick because they were god awful in 2002-2003. They had the worst record in the league in 2002-2003 with 17 wins. Lebron more than DOUBLED their win total in his rookie season, so because of that they picked 10th in 2004, the FO took Luke Jackson, who was out of the league in 4 years(bust). Cleveland didn't have a 1st rounder in the 2005 draft because of a trade that happened in 1997. By the time the 2006 draft rolled around, Cleveland was drafting late in the 1st round.

I mean for real, these were the guys the Cavs drafted after Lebron in the 1st round:

2004 - Luke Jackson
2006 - Shannon Brown
2008 - JJ Hickson
2009 - Christian Eyenga

MJ was fortunate enough that the Bulls FO was great. The Bulls were able to trade for Scottie Pippen and draft Horace Grant 10th overall in 1987. Giving MJ a future HOF and future All-Star. So by the end of his 3rd season the Bulls got Pippen and Grant. By the end of Lebron's 3rd season they got Shannon Brown.

 

[ericd7633]

I did a google on the subject. Ranked the top 70 "clutch" players.

Top ten:

1. MJ
2. Larry Bird
3.Kobe
4. Magic
5. Reggie Miller
6. Jerry West
7. Isiah Thomas
8. Robert Horry
9. Derek Fisher
10. Chauncy Billups

They had Lebron ranked 16.

Grain of salt as I did not see actual stats.

Ranking 70 Most Clutch Players in NBA History: 70-60

Another list had Lebron at 10, MJ at 2 and Kobe 1.

Most Clutch Players in NBA History - Top Ten List - TheTopTens®

lmao. Derek Fisher. lmao.

 

[Wamu]

Correct. But I when I flip on espn and see lebron, he is lazy on that side of the ball. Could be coincidence.

He's not the defender he once was, but then again he's in his 15th year. But for the ECF he did average 1+ steal & 1+ block per game. His defensive intensity isn't what it was in the past. But when he needs to step his D up he usually does. I think you might just be tuning in @ odd times.

 

[DJ]

I get all that. The fact that Jordan did it with 1 team and Lebron picked his surrounding (both through FA and then he also had a ton of say on trades and signings with each team) is why I stick with Jordan here. Lebron helped build this team so that he could play the way he plays.

I said the same exact thing why Kobe was better....but what James is doing is absolutely unheard of, Dragging a team what most likely wouldn't make the postseason without him to the Finals.

Unreal.

Posting lines like:

-46 points, 11 rebounds, 9 assists, and 3 steals

-42 points, 12 assists, and 10 rebounds

-44 points, 5 rebounds, and 3 assists

That's just in Boston series.

He averaged 34.4ppg, 10rpg, and 7.7apg in the Indy series where he practically had to carry them because he wasn't getting a ton of help.

No need to mention the Raps series since it was a sweep but that may have been his most complete series.

 

[DJ]

I saw that stat. No argument about it.

And he still has 2 more years at a high level.....he could absolutely shatter it and some of MJ"s other records.

 

[SU Nittany Tide]

I get all that. The fact that Jordan did it with 1 team and Lebron picked his surrounding (both through FA and then he also had a ton of say on trades and signings with each team) is why I stick with Jordan here. Lebron helped build this team so that he could play the way he plays.

Must be nice if your own team is able to load up your roster. James was getting zero help in Cleveland.

 

[DJ]

IMO, people are too hung up on the fact that he's 3-5 in the Finals....and most would assume he's on his way to being 3-6.

But, the fact getting to 8 straight Finals is quite an achievement in it self.

 

[flyerhawk]

I did a google on the subject. Ranked the top 70 "clutch" players.

Top ten:

1. MJ
2. Larry Bird
3.Kobe
4. Magic
5. Reggie Miller
6. Jerry West
7. Isiah Thomas
8. Robert Horry
9. Derek Fisher
10. Chauncy Billups

They had Lebron ranked 16.

Grain of salt as I did not see actual stats.

Ranking 70 Most Clutch Players in NBA History: 70-60

Another list had Lebron at 10, MJ at 2 and Kobe 1.

Most Clutch Players in NBA History - Top Ten List - TheTopTens®

Those lists are amusing at least.

 

[DJ]

If some how some way, the Cavs do beat the W's (and I'm not saying they'll win).....I don't think there should be any doubt he's the best player of all-time.

Beating them with this rag tag group of misfits would cement it.

 

[knowyourenemy]

See that is the thing.

People are too fixated on the team result. It isn't the Cavs beating Boston that is impressive. It is LeBron's performance in those games that elevated his team and gave them a chance.

He can average 45-12-10 against golden state and the Cavs might still get swept.

And it will be the same narrative. The objective people will be talking about how great LeBron is and the haters will say the loss somehow diminishes his greatness. It does no such thing. Just like the win last night isn't the reason people are taking about him alongside Mike.

People will eventually forget that Boston was favored to win the game. They broke one of the oldest rules in the book:

The first being, never get involved in a land war in Asia.

The other being, never bet against LeBron James in game 7.

If Houston manages to beat golden state. I could see Cleveland somehow beating them.

 

[flyerhawk]

IMO, people are too hung up on the fact that he's 3-5 in the Finals....and most would assume he's on his way to being 3-6.

But, the fact getting to 8 straight Finals is quite an achievement in it self.

Too many fanboy/haters try to pick and choose what is and is not a great achievement.

Lebron James going to 8 straight finals with 2 teams is an incredible achievement.
Michael Jordan essentially wing 6 straight titles is an incredible achievement.