Historic defensive ratings...

[boogiewithstu2007]

I wasn't probably clear enough with my post, I LOVE the Seahawks D, definitely like the Bronc's built for today's game. But the one thing that's always given me pause about our D is the amount of time we started to give opposing QB's in clear passing downs.

Bruce Irvin playing with a hand on the ground < Von Miller, by a LOT. Irvin is a nice piece and is going to get PAID, and be elsewhere next year. But he's no Miller.

Who is?

But yeah, I'd take our back end with Thomas over Denver's. Although you CAN make the argument that Denver's top 3 corners are better than what Seattle trotted out this year.

Our guy was Clemens on the edge... He was a nightmare match-up.... I think the Broncos definitely had the better pass rush overall though, after watching them pressure Brady that was impressive .. Seahawks were better in the back end of there D especially at safety ... I think we had better linebacker play also... Wagner, Wright, Smith, Irvin was a nice linebacker combo ...

 

[cdumler7]

Our guy was Clemens on the edge... He was a nightmare match-up.... I think the Broncos definitely had the better pass rush overall though, after watching them pressure Brady that was impressive .. Seahawks were better in the back end of there D especially at safety ... I think we had better linebacker play also... Wagner, Wright, Smith, Irvin was a nice linebacker combo ...

linebacker position depends if you count Miller and Ware among the Linebackers. To me Miller is way above any player on either team. Ware was the captain of this historic defense so can't ignore what he brought. Then Marshall and Trevathan finished something like 6th and 7th for overall grade at the ILB position. So to me I'm not sure you can say you had better linebackers but we both might be a bit biased.

 

[Anointed One]

Talib is their weakest link...

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

linebacker position depends if you count Miller and Ware among the Linebackers. To me Miller is way above any player on either team. Ware was the captain of this historic defense so can't ignore what he brought. Then Marshall and Trevathan finished something like 6th and 7th for overall grade at the ILB position. So to me I'm not sure you can say you had better linebackers but we both might be a bit biased.

Miller is kind of a hybrid guy like Irvin.... Although Miller obviously is better than Irvin .... Wagner though is an effin beast... guy is a straight bulldozer... I still think overall our linebacking corp in 2013 get's the nod though... But of course like you said we can both have our arguments...

 

[Duffman]

Talib is their weakest link...

Well the enforcer usually is because they put their focus on playing physical over playing technically sound. Denver used to have a reputation for being soft but whether you love him or hate him Talib(and TJ Ward too) bring an edge that they didn't have before.

Some teams just need a bully that isn't afraid of roughing people up.

Completely excluding his run with the Saints because N.O used him terribly Brandon Browner played similar to Talib for the Seahawks and Patriots and it worked out great. Of course the key is having someone on the other side who can play great to cover for that player and Denver has that in Harris.

 

[Logicallylethal]

I think what the 2013 Seahawks did to the historical record breaking offense of the Broncos in Superbowl 48 was one of the most impressive showings by any defense in any game.


It's hard to truly assess which defense is better simply because of

1) Nostalgic Factor
2) Different Eras
3) Home team bias

My argument for the 2013 Seahawks is the fact that they did it against a team loaded with offensive weapons, a hall of fame quarterback, and in a passing era where the rules favor the passing game.

 

[NinerSickness]

Broncos D is good, but Panther's offense came a in WEE bit over-confident.


1985 Bears
2006 Ravens
2002 Bucs

You mean 2000 Ravens.

I crunched the numbers a long time ago, and the 2000 Ravens had better points allowed against the average in the regular season than the '85 Bears did (both in the reg' & post seasons).

'02 Bucs definitely.

 

[theknight307]

From what I remember, the Bears faced Phil Sims, Dieter Brock, and Tony Eason in that play off run.

The Ravens faced Gus Ferrote, Steve Mcnair, Rich Gannon and Kerry Collins.

Broncos faced Roethlisberger, Brady, and Cam Newton.

Which defense faced those quality of QBs. I think Roth was 2 for 15 on 3rd down conversions, Brady was like 3 for 15 on 3rd downs and cam Newton was 3 for 15.

Anyway, just saying.

 

[seafandoghawk]

Would you put the 2015 Broncos D in the top 10 of all time ? I think they might just sneak into the top 10 personally.... Some of the Broncos players are saying best of all time but the numbers don't back that up, there just high on emotion right now.... when they reflect they'll see that's not a good argument... But there definitely in the top 10 I think .... Also, they are one of the better pass rushing teams we've seen in a long time... Miller and Ware were just off the chain good....

Top 10? Probably yes. I think that they were almost as good as the 2013 Seahawks, and definitely in the same overall class. It was a special unit this year.

 

[jarntt]

To be honest, I think this narrative is absolute bullshit. The 5 yard bump is still there. I've seen Revis, Sherman, and Peterson all just absolute trash a WR within that 5 and make them fall putting them out of the play. Multiple times. And physical play goes on all the way down the field between both the corner and WR. Yeah, pass interference and defensive holding can be very tickytac sometimes, but that's rare. The physicality is still there.

You must be young

 

[jakedog56]

Some that have not been mentioned much:

Look up the '72 and73 Dolphins, '69 Chiefs, '73 and '75 Rams, '71 Viks, '62 Packers as some other notable all-time great D's. They were all before my time but still deserve some respect.

Some others that could be mentioned include the '77 Falcons, '94 Cowboys, '88 49ers, '87 Saints, '91 Eagles, '86 and '90 NY Giants, '77 Broncos, and the '75 Raiders.

Lots to choose from.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Broncos faced Roethlisberger, Brady, and Cam Newton.

Which defense faced those quality of QBs. I think Roth was 2 for 15 on 3rd down conversions, Brady was like 3 for 15 on 3rd downs and cam Newton was 3 for 15.

Anyway, just saying.

Lets be a little honest here. Pittsburgh was without their #1 receiver and down both Bell and Williams in the backfield. Brady's line was a sieve. Cam Newton? I'm not buying the Panthers offense one bit. After Greg Olsen, the top pass weapon was....Ted Ginn.

I think Denver has perhaps the best defense in football today, but why is everyone in a rush to put them in some sort of all time discussion?

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Well the game is obviously different now, Post-78 rule changes were the biggest (it's the 5 yard bump now, it wasn't a 5 yard limit before). Remember "alligator arms".. when WR's would give up on routes over the middle for fear of being hit. QB's being head first drilled from behind (caused the Dennis Byrd injury), hits below the knee on QB's, finishing a QB off, that kind of stuff is long gone for safety reasons, and because offense sells.

But what the Bronco's did was pretty amazing on defense. Took on the #1, #3, and #4 scoring offenses in the NFL and didn't allow any to break 20 points. And with little help from the offense. They weren't converting 3rd downs and resting their D and giving them better starting field position very often.

I'd go top 10 because of that SB run considering this era. That's a big reason why the 2000 Ravens or 1985 bears are considered 2 of the best ever, 86 bears was better than the 85 bears reg season. 2000 Ravens before the playoffs I don't know if many remember this, but the argument going into that Titans/Ravens playoff game was who had the better D.

Ravens D to me is up there as best ever. They gave up 23 points in their 4 game playoff run (and scored 35 of their own on D/ST TD's). And in those games were 2 of the top 3 offenses of the season.

 

[Broncos6482]

Lets be a little honest here. Pittsburgh was without their #1 receiver and down both Bell and Williams in the backfield. Brady's line was a sieve. Cam Newton? I'm not buying the Panthers offense one bit. After Greg Olsen, the top pass weapon was....Ted Ginn.

I think Denver has perhaps the best defense in football today, but why is everyone in a rush to put them in some sort of all time discussion?

This is a little disingenuous. I'll give you the point about the Steelers, but why do you think Brady's line was a sieve? Did that just happen out of nowhere? That line was perfectly fine against the Chiefs the week before, then they come to Denver and get steamrolled. Denver's defense made that line a sieve, you have to give them credit for that.

As for the Panthers, you might not buy their offense, but they were the highest scoring team in the NFL this season. They averaged over 31 points per game in the regular season, and coming into the Super Bowl they averaged 40 points per game in their 2 playoff games, and that was against the 2nd and 5th ranked defenses. And Denver absolutely shut them down.

That means in 3 playoff games, Denver's defense shut down two Hall of Fame quarterbacks and the league MVP and highest scoring offense. And they did that with an offense that was average at best (and that's being pretty generous, really). It's pretty clear why they are generating discussion of being an all time great defense.

 

[theknight307]

Lets be a little honest here. Pittsburgh was without their #1 receiver and down both Bell and Williams in the backfield. Brady's line was a sieve. Cam Newton? I'm not buying the Panthers offense one bit. After Greg Olsen, the top pass weapon was....Ted Ginn.

I think Denver has perhaps the best defense in football today, but why is everyone in a rush to put them in some sort of all time discussion?

Well we can talk about Roethlisberger and the steelers being injured, fine. True enough. I do think they were still more potent than say the Gus Ferrote led Broncos or the Dieter Brock led Rams which is what the Bears faced. I know the Pats line was a bit lacking, but the last time the Pats lost with a healthy Amendola, Edelman and Gronk was in 2014. Then when you compare the SBs I think Cam Newton was far better than Kerry Collins or Tony Eason.....don't you? I mean......come on.

BTW, not for nothing but the

 

[Clayton]

Some that have not been mentioned much:

Look up the '72 and73 Dolphins, '69 Chiefs, '73 and '75 Rams, '71 Viks, '62 Packers as some other notable all-time great D's. They were all before my time but still deserve some respect.

Some others that could be mentioned include the '77 Falcons, '94 Cowboys, '88 49ers, '87 Saints, '91 Eagles, '86 and '90 NY Giants, '77 Broncos, and the '75 Raiders.

Lots to choose from.

One that gets overlooked recently is the 2012 Bears. Footballoutsiders actually ranked it higher than this year's Denver defense. Julius Peppers, Melton, Tilman, Jennings all made the Pro Bowl. Also had Lance Briggs and Brian Urlacher.

 

[Clayton]

Talib is their weakest link...

I think him and Darian Stewart are both average players. Everyone else, though...

 

[theknight307]

The one that gets most overlooked is the Raiders 1983 defense. To that point, that redskins offense was the highest scoring offense ever. Haynes and Hayes lock down corners with Howie Long and Alzado. Ted Hendricks and rod Martin. I guess Marcus Allen gets all of the press, but what that defense did to that offense was remarkable.

 

[Broncos6482]

I think him and Darian Stewart are both average players. Everyone else, though...

Talib is an above average corner, but he really seems to be hot or cold. He can shut guys down, but when he's bad he's really, really bad. Probably comes with being such a headcase. On Sunday, it seemed like he was headed for one of those really bad games, but he played much better in the second half.

As for Stewart, he was a huge upgrade over Rahim Moore last year, and he was also quite a bit better than the guys that replaced him when he was injured. It's no coincidence that the Steelers shredded our defense in Pittsburgh after Stewart went down, and Gronk was held in check in the AFC Championship game until Stewart left.

 

[Clayton]

Talib is an above average corner, but he really seems to be hot or cold. He can shut guys down, but when he's bad he's really, really bad. Probably comes with being such a headcase. On Sunday, it seemed like he was headed for one of those really bad games, but he played much better in the second half.

As for Stewart, he was a huge upgrade over Rahim Moore last year, and he was also quite a bit better than the guys that replaced him when he was injured. It's no coincidence that the Steelers shredded our defense in Pittsburgh after Stewart went down, and Gronk was held in check in the AFC Championship game until Stewart left.

Stewart is a rocket but one of the worst tacklers Ive ever seen in a pro uniform. It appears that he has either fixed the tackling issue or his surrounding talent is masking it. He got cut from the Rams and Ravens and neither had good pass Ds at the time.

Talib is a great corner who struggles mightily with speed. A quick WR could run a deep slant on him all day. There just aren't many great speed WRs in the game right now.