Changes are coming, will these guys be back?

[CitySushi]

The biggest gripe I would have over losing Klay is that he's an elite defender now. I trust him to guard the best perimeter player on any team we play.

If we lose Klay, we have to retain Barnes who is a good defender in his own right. He would be allowed to start and Iguodala could slide to the 2. We still lose some on defense, but not as much as if we had to include Barnes with Klay, and take back someone like Kevin Martin. Our defense with Curry, Martin and Lee on the floor would be atrocious.

 

[CohanHater]

I disagree with that statement. Yea you can always find 2 guards like Nick Young, but Klay is 24, a strong 2 way player and a pretty good compliment to Curry. He will not be easy to replace.

He's a good compliment yes, and has a big upside, but:
There's a huge upgrade from Klay & Lee vs a mid-level 2 guard & Love...It's not even close, IMO. Especially when you have Iguodala and Draymond that can lock up defend on most 2 guards in the league.

You have to look at the sum of the parts here, not the individual pieces. I think most GMs would trade a nominal 2 guard downgrade to get a sizeable front court upgrade (assuming that can happen)

 

[CohanHater]

With Klay off the team, who is supposed to "pick and pop"? Steph, and Love would be the only real shooters left. AI#9 is too streaky, and hB isn't reliable.

I'm assuming you are overlooking that you'd be getting Kevin Love?????

Imagine if every time Lee set the high screen and slid over to 18 if a defender had to go with him. The key would open up for Curry to penetrate. If the defender sagged a little, Love (who is a good passer and an exceptional shooter) would be able to do what Lee couldn't because they didn't have to respect the outside shot.

 

[southernfriedwarrior]

The biggest gripe I would have over losing Klay is that he's an elite defender now. I trust him to guard the best perimeter player on any team we play.

If we lose Klay, we have to retain Barnes who is a good defender in his own right. He would be allowed to start and Iguodala could slide to the 2. We still lose some on defense, but not as much as if we had to include Barnes with Klay, and take back someone like Kevin Martin. Our defense with Curry, Martin and Lee on the floor would be atrocious.

I'd pass on the deal, before I'd give up Klay. Positionally speaking I think guards and wings are more important than pf's and Klay is a two way player which Love isn't. I think Love defends better than Lee, but not much better. This would be a great deal for Minn. Lee gives them 85% of Love's production and they get a two way player in Thompson whose game is still expanding. Love's contribution alone vs Klay and Lee doesn't move the win/loss needle for the Warriors IMO. Please Myers don't overpay for Love. Two very good starters for Love is too much. If Love was a big defensive upgrade over Lee maybe it's worth it, but he's not. Lee's 19 and 10 becomes 24 and 12, but Thompson's numbers will be hard to replace. This team is offensively challenged as it is outside of three players.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Draymond is far from untradeable, but I don't think he's a piece in this trade. Klay is tradeable, especially projecting his big payday around the corner. Remember, you can always find 2 guards, especially when your 4 is a dead-eye shooter. I think that's the proper move to be honest.

Klay and Lee for Love. Pick roll/pick pop would be absolutely lethal.

He said Green's untouchable, not untradeable. I agree with Tzill, I am in no way involving Draymond Green in any trade talks at this point. Too valuable, too versatile of a piece.

 

[clyde_carbon]

I disagree with that statement. Yea you can always find 2 guards like Nick Young, but Klay is 24, a strong 2 way player and a pretty good compliment to Curry. He will not be easy to replace.

If the Wolves love Klay enough that they decide he is the guy they would want most in a Love trade, then maybe they make that deal, but I still think they could get more. If its just Klay leaving then I suppose Barnes can play the 3 and Iguodala the 2. It's possible Barnes can replace a lot of what Klay brings or he could never reach that potential we saw last year in the playoffs and the Warriors end up battling for a playoff spot instead of home court. If were the Wolves I'd want young players and picks and would not take Lee unless they really made it worth it. They would be in a rebuild and Lee is not a guy they can turn around and flip easily for good value. I could see Lee being involved if there is a 3rd team, but wouldn't you rather get 2 or 3 1st rounders and a young player rather than basically just Klay? I just don't see how the Warriors realistically get Love without giving up 2 of Klay, Green and Barnes as well as their 2015 pick. If the Warriors give up that much, then Myers better find a way to add some depth because I think they would be left with a great starting 5 and a bunch of nothings on the bench.

Minny wouldn't take David Lee without Barnes and/or Thompson. The only players I'd offer Minny are Lee and Barnes, and even then I'm skeptical. I like Love, but to me he's a rich man's David Lee (albeit a lot younger) and I'm not sure parting away with Barnes' untapped potential is worth it. I don't know - tough call.

 

[CohanHater]

Positionally speaking I think guards and wings are more important than pf's and Klay is a two way player which Love isn't...
...Lee gives them 85% of Love's production and they get a two way player in Thompson whose game is still expanding. Love's contribution alone vs Klay and Lee doesn't move the win/loss needle for the Warriors IMO.

More important, I'd personally disagree simply because there are less 4's out there. There are plenty of 2's out there...Think supply and demand.

As for it being a good deal for Minn...I'd agree with everything you said, except the last point. But just because it's a good deal for them, doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good deal for the Dubs. They're not mutually exclusive. The 15% that Love gives you over Lee are huge. Especially on a team that would thrive on that spacing. Finding a guy that gives you 85% of what Klay gives you wouldn't be nearly as hard (or expensive).

 

[clyde_carbon]

I'd pass on the deal, before I'd give up Klay. Positionally speaking I think guards and wings are more important than pf's and Klay is a two way player which Love isn't. I think Love defends better than Lee, but not much better. This would be a great deal for Minn. Lee gives them 85% of Love's production and they get a two way player in Thompson whose game is still expanding. Love's contribution alone vs Klay and Lee doesn't move the win/loss needle for the Warriors IMO. Please Myers don't overpay for Love. Two very good starters for Love is too much. If Love was a big defensive upgrade over Lee maybe it's worth it, but he's not. Lee's 19 and 10 becomes 24 and 12, but Thompson's numbers will be hard to replace. This team is offensively challenged as it is outside of three players.

Exactly my point. Love is young and thus more attractive than David Lee, but in terms of production and defense, he's not THAT much better than Lee, IMO, and doesn't offer enough on both ends of the court to justify giving up our 24-year-old stud SG. David Lee and Klay Thompson would be an awesome trade for Minny. They'd get, like you said, 70-80% of Love's production while getting back a young player they can build around. We'd be getting an OK upgrade at the 4 but we'd lose a core player and depth. Not worth.

 

[clyde_carbon]

More important, I'd personally disagree simply because there are less 4's out there. There are plenty of 2's out there...Think supply and demand.

As for it being a good deal for Minn...I'd agree with everything you said, except the last point. But just because it's a good deal for them, doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good deal for the Dubs. They're not mutually exclusive. The 15% that Love gives you over Lee are huge. Especially on a team that would thrive on that spacing. Finding a guy that gives you 85% of what Klay gives you wouldn't be nearly as hard (or expensive).

You're not taking into account the back-court chemistry that Curry and Thompson have developed. Sure, finding a SG that can do 85% of what Thompson can isn't as hard, but replacing that chemistry is a variable we can't really measure.

 

[CohanHater]

You're not taking into account the back-court chemistry that Curry and Thompson have developed. Sure, finding a SG that can do 85% of what Thompson can isn't as hard, but replacing that chemistry is a variable we can't really measure.

Agree to disagree... Chemistry is built with matching styles. If you give me a Bruce Bowen/Raja Bell type of player, you'll have chemistry from all 5 spots on the court. I like Lee a lot (only Jersey I own), but I think Love brings an exponential gain simply by opening up the middle of the court.

 

[CitySushi]

You're not taking into account the back-court chemistry that Curry and Thompson have developed. Sure, finding a SG that can do 85% of what Thompson can isn't as hard, but replacing that chemistry is a variable we can't really measure.

I think a lot of the chemistry that has been developed is one way. Curry creates a lot of opportunities for Klay. It doesn't really work vice-versa. Klay makes up for Curry on defense, but as far as chemistry goes, Klay doesn't really ever pass to Curry or take any real pressure off of Curry.

I think that Curry could be dynamic with a lot of other players, as easily as he could with Klay. Klay's shooting makes it way easier, but Curry is a very good play maker and draws so much attention that he could do a lot with a lot of guards.

 

[tzill]

Draymond is far from untradeable, but I don't think he's a piece in this trade. Klay is tradeable, especially projecting his big payday around the corner. Remember, you can always find 2 guards, especially when your 4 is a dead-eye shooter. I think that's the proper move to be honest.

Klay and Lee for Love. Pick roll/pick pop would be absolutely lethal.

I think we'd live to regret that trade. I think Klay will be an All Star before too long. He is one of the best shooters in the league and he defends at an elite level. KLove is a top talent, but not All-NBA type talent. I want him, but not at the expense of Klay. Honestly, I wouldn't trade Klay for Love straight up.

Avi has to go though.

 

[tzill]

I disagree with that statement. Yea you can always find 2 guards like Nick Young, but Klay is 24, a strong 2 way player and a pretty good compliment to Curry. He will not be easy to replace.

If the Wolves love Klay enough that they decide he is the guy they would want most in a Love trade, then maybe they make that deal, but I still think they could get more. If its just Klay leaving then I suppose Barnes can play the 3 and Iguodala the 2. It's possible Barnes can replace a lot of what Klay brings or he could never reach that potential we saw last year in the playoffs and the Warriors end up battling for a playoff spot instead of home court. If were the Wolves I'd want young players and picks and would not take Lee unless they really made it worth it. They would be in a rebuild and Lee is not a guy they can turn around and flip easily for good value. I could see Lee being involved if there is a 3rd team, but wouldn't you rather get 2 or 3 1st rounders and a young player rather than basically just Klay? I just don't see how the Warriors realistically get Love without giving up 2 of Klay, Green and Barnes as well as their 2015 pick. If the Warriors give up that much, then Myers better find a way to add some depth because I think they would be left with a great starting 5 and a bunch of nothings on the bench.

I don't know about that. First, he's a great lockeroom presence for a young rebuilding team. Second, next year he's a $15MM expiring which can bring back pretty good value. Third, although his D is awful, he's a gifted scorer and a decent replacement for KLove in terms of points and rebounds. He's not valueless.

As for 2 or 3 firsts, it depends upon which team you're considering. Phoenix? They're improving and those picks won't be lottery. Lakers? Maybe, but they don't have young talent to deal.

I don't think there's any way we give up Lee, 2 of the 3 (Klay, Green, Barnes) AND the 2015 pick for KLove. Waaay too much for a defensively limited player with little low post game (although better than Avi).

I think the deal is Lee and HB or they can trade him to someone else. I don't think they'll get a better deal honestly.

 

[tzill]

If they wanted they could absolutely trade Iguodala. 3 35 left cap hits of 12.3, 11.7 and 11.1. Wolves would likely have little interest, but plenty of other teams if they wanted to move him for other pieces for Love or depth. I think it wouldn't make sense to deal him anyway.

I seriously doubt you could get much for Iggy at this point. He's on the downside, and he's often injured. When healthy, he's an elite defender but he's just not healthy very much. Ditto Bogut. Both of them have most value to the Ws.

 

[tzill]

I don't understand what you mean by malpractice. Any team that trades for him already knows his price (as he and his agent will make that clear), and will have to pay that price for him to be willing to sign an extension. The only party a multi-team scenario really benefits is Minnesota, as they can play multiple teams off against one another, and jack up the cost of acquiring him. If Love wants to go to a contender, he can help that team out by making his intentions clear, as to where he's willing to sign an extension. If he truly wants to be here, he should make that clear. Under those terms the Warriors will have to give up less to acquire him as Minn. then has zero leverage over the situation. Take our deal or get nothing for him, unless some team is willing to gamble that they can talk him into re-signing with them which is a risky proposition to say the least. Of course this scenario is unlikely, but we can at least hope he narrows the field to just a couple of teams. The story as reported on in the media has Boston, Houston, NY, Suns, Warriors, Bulls and LA in the hunt at the moment.

KLoves max contract is only part of his "price." The other piece is what you have to give the Wolves to get him. If KLove limits the trade to one team, the greatest likelihood is that he won't get dealt. Minny isn't going to get forced into a bad trade because KLove says "Oakland or nothing." His agent would never allow that to happen. He might move behind the scenes if KLove really wants to be here to try and influence that to happen, but he wouldn't give up leverage publicly. That would be malpractice and no agent would do that. The downside risk of what you suggest to KLove is too much, and he doesn't need to do it.

 

[tzill]

He's a good compliment yes, and has a big upside, but:
There's a huge upgrade from Klay & Lee vs a mid-level 2 guard & Love...It's not even close, IMO. Especially when you have Iguodala and Draymond that can lock up defend on most 2 guards in the league.

You have to look at the sum of the parts here, not the individual pieces. I think most GMs would trade a nominal 2 guard downgrade to get a sizeable front court upgrade (assuming that can happen)

I don't see it that way. Avi to Love is a very good upgrade, but Klay to an average SG (who may or may not be big enough to handle the other teams opposing best wing player) is a significant downgrade. We get better, but not by a lot.

It also weakens the bench as HB is now a starter, and injury-plagued Iggy moves to the 2. Behind Bogut/Love/HB/Iggy/Steph you've got Festus/Green/average 2 and......??? Where are the reserve wing defenders?

 

[tzill]

I'm assuming you are overlooking that you'd be getting Kevin Love?????

Imagine if every time Lee set the high screen and slid over to 18 if a defender had to go with him. The key would open up for Curry to penetrate. If the defender sagged a little, Love (who is a good passer and an exceptional shooter) would be able to do what Lee couldn't because they didn't have to respect the outside shot.

And what about the 20 minutes a night Steph and/or Love were off the floor? Not to mention Bogut as well.

If we traded Avi and Klay for Love, we'd get 20 minutes a night of:

Festus/Green/HB/mediocre 2/Steph or
Festus/Love/HB/mediocre 2/Iggy

That's a rough 20 minutes.

 

[tzill]

I'd pass on the deal, before I'd give up Klay. Positionally speaking I think guards and wings are more important than pf's and Klay is a two way player which Love isn't. I think Love defends better than Lee, but not much better. This would be a great deal for Minn. Lee gives them 85% of Love's production and they get a two way player in Thompson whose game is still expanding. Love's contribution alone vs Klay and Lee doesn't move the win/loss needle for the Warriors IMO. Please Myers don't overpay for Love. Two very good starters for Love is too much. If Love was a big defensive upgrade over Lee maybe it's worth it, but he's not. Lee's 19 and 10 becomes 24 and 12, but Thompson's numbers will be hard to replace. This team is offensively challenged as it is outside of three players.

If Love were a) a good defender or b) a good low post player then I think I'd look at Klay and Avi for him.

As it is, I'd pass. Klay, Steph, and Green are the core moving forward.

 

[tzill]

Minny wouldn't take David Lee without Barnes and/or Thompson. The only players I'd offer Minny are Lee and Barnes, and even then I'm skeptical. I like Love, but to me he's a rich man's David Lee (albeit a lot younger) and I'm not sure parting away with Barnes' untapped potential is worth it. I don't know - tough call.

I think Love would be enough of an upgrade over Avi (esp. on defense) to give up HB. But as you say, it's a close call.

 

[tzill]

More important, I'd personally disagree simply because there are less 4's out there. There are plenty of 2's out there...Think supply and demand.

As for it being a good deal for Minn...I'd agree with everything you said, except the last point. But just because it's a good deal for them, doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good deal for the Dubs. They're not mutually exclusive. The 15% that Love gives you over Lee are huge. Especially on a team that would thrive on that spacing. Finding a guy that gives you 85% of what Klay gives you wouldn't be nearly as hard (or expensive).

I guess this is essentially where the "Klay can be dealt" and the "Klay is part of our core" camps disagree. I think finding someone who can give you 85% of Klay would be very difficult to find. You can't find a better shooter, and if you found one who is 85% as good, he isn't going to defend 85% as well as Klay does. I think you undervalue how good a two-way player Klay is.