Changes are coming, will these guys be back?

[sjballer03]

Basically Jackson didn't want to kiss the ring of the King

"Warriors owner Joe Lacob said the Jackson firing had more to do with "organizational issues" than on-court performance. The Warriors cited Jackson's unwillingness to move to the Bay Area, friction with management and sketchy dealings with assistant coaches among reasons that led to the firing."

1) I could care less if Jackson lived in Canada, the Dubs were winning
2) Friction is good, difference of opinion leads to creative thinking, vs "Yes me"
3) Assistant Coaches, such as Scalabrini and Erman? Those guys seemed sketchy for their own reasons.

Not saying Jackson was perfect, but the team's on court performance wasn't factored into the equation? That makes no sense.

You are only focused on the end result. 50 wins in the West means nothing. This is a team that underachieved regardless of the numbers. We were only a few losses away from not even making the playoffs. There are plenty of coaches out there that could've taken this team to 50 wins.

It was not merely a difference of opinion. Jackson simply stopped taking input from anybody but himself and his staff. You are continuously ignoring the fact that Jackson was given full control over his staff, so there was no meddling by the front office there. He failed because he brought in his own yes-men. The same problems on day 1 showed up on the final day of the season. He and the team showed zero growth as the season progressed. There is no guarantee there would be any improvements next season, so it was time to move on.

What's baffling to me is people don't want to understand that this is not how a new coach should operate. Especially one that has NEVER coached in his life. Here's a guy that should've been eager to absorb as much knowledge and input as possible as he grows into his role. But instead he acted like he was an experienced coach. I guarantee you all of the successful coaches in history didn't make this mistake when they were first starting out.

 

[southernfriedwarrior]

I'm in agreement that both parties are not absolved of fault in this situation. The only reason I choose to give the management the benefit of the doubt is because we can tangibly see Jackson's fault, as he is on display every game. In additional Jackson does not receive my benefit of the doubt, because he is at the center of every controversy. We say Jackson did not get along with the front office management, as if entity is one person. It's multiple people.

Jackson vs. Scalabrine
Jackson vs. Erman
Jackson vs. Joe Lacob
Jackson vs. Jerry West
Jackson vs. Kirk Lacob
Jackson vs. Bob Myers
Jackson vs. Welts (although no problem specifically mentioned, Jackson's stance on Gay's in general is a factor for an openly gay CEO of the team).

There's one common denominator.

Did you read Lacob's interview with Rusty Simmons? He says that he got along really well with Jackson, and said that Myers would probably say the same. I think the above characterization of Jackson having an adversarial relationship with all of Warrior's management & Scalabrine is an oversimplifcation of the real dynamics of a complex situation that led to his firing. No doubt Jackson and the Warriors management are both going to be smarter about how they conduct business going forward. Ironically I think the very qualities in Jackson that likely appealed to Lacob and Myers in the first place (iron will, singleness of vision, complete confidence in himself and his approach as a coach) probably led to his downfall. Anyhoo, it certainly makes things interesting. Off to the draft now.

 

[CitySushi]

Did you read Lacob's interview with Rusty Simmons? He says that he got along really well with Jackson, and said that Myers would probably say the same. I think the above characterization of Jackson having an adversarial relationship with all of Warrior's management & Scalabrine is an oversimplifcation of the real dynamics of a complex situation that led to his firing. No doubt Jackson and the Warriors management are both going to be smarter about how they conduct business going forward. Ironically I think the very qualities in Jackson that likely appealed to Lacob and Myers in the first place (iron will, singleness of vision, complete confidence in himself and his approach as a coach) probably led to his downfall. Anyhoo, it certainly makes things interesting. Off to the draft now.

Pretty much agree with the bolded. We have to remember that just as Jackson was a brand new head coach, the ownership is new to this as well. Both will learn from this and hopefully grow.

Also, can't wait to see what the Niners do with all their picks. Gotta be some movement upwards in the 1st.

 

[NBKLee]

You are only focused on the end result. 50 wins in the West means nothing. ......

I stopped reading after this.


50 wins in the East means nothing

Dubs were in a tough division, missing some of their starters and top bench players most of the year, and still got into the playoffs.

 

[NBKLee]

Sushi, we can agree to disagree I suppose.

First Dubs team to get to 50 wins in forever, first Dubs team to get to back to back playoffs since Run TMC?.

And yet a change was "needed"? The new coach could get along with the FO great, but when it comes down to it, they better get past the First round.

 

[CitySushi]

Sushi, we can agree to disagree I suppose.

First Dubs team to get to 50 wins in forever, first Dubs team to get to back to back playoffs since Run TMC?.

And yet a change was "needed"? The new coach could get along with the FO great, but when it comes down to it, they better get past the First round.

Ultimately this is what it comes down to. The dismissal of Jackson comes with a huge caveat in that the next coach must be the one who takes us to the next round. I don't think you'll find a fan, on either side of the Jackson firing, that doesn't believe it'll be acceptable simply to just make the playoffs next year.

The Warriors have put all their eggs in the basket of this roster. There isn't much financial flexibility to grab big name free agents. Our core is what it is for the next 3 years. We need a coach, with experience, to turn the corner.

If the next coach has short comings, I'll definitely point those out too. This situation for me was not about Jackson. It's about getting the BEST person to bring us to title contention. I believe that a more seasoned and experienced coach can do that. The pressure will be on Management, the new coaching staff, and the players to get it done.

 

[Hambombs]

Ultimately this is what it comes down to. The dismissal of Jackson comes with a huge caveat in that the next coach must be the one who takes us to the next round. I don't think you'll find a fan, on either side of the Jackson firing, that doesn't believe it'll be acceptable simply to just make the playoffs next year.

The Warriors have put all their eggs in the basket of this roster. There isn't much financial flexibility to grab big name free agents. Our core is what it is for the next 3 years. We need a coach, with experience, to turn the corner.

If the next coach has short comings, I'll definitely point those out too. This situation for me was not about Jackson. It's about getting the BEST person to bring us to title contention. I believe that a more seasoned and experienced coach can do that. The pressure will be on Management, the new coaching staff, and the players to get it done.

Stan can gundy shall be that guy that takes us to the next level. Also it helps that we get a great bench also to compete. We have one of the best 1-6 talent wise.

 

[NBKLee]

Stan can gundy shall be that guy that takes us to the next level. Also it helps that we get a great bench also to compete. We have one of the best 1-6 talent wise.

You mean , when healthy. #Fullsquad was dominate, sadly, Jackson didn't always have that squad on the floor.

The bench was weak, we tried to buoy it with Blake, JC, Armstrong, SPeights, Baze, Nedo, and Kuzmic but that didn't work well. Folks will dump on the job that Jackson did, but fail to acknowledge the fact that the roster was flawed.

To borrow some Coach Speak, at the end of the day, the bench got exposed. Instead of pointing fingers at Jackson, there should have been more fingers pointed at Myers.

 

[NBKLee]

K.Love possibly to the Dubs?

Still think Lakers end up with Love somehow.

According to the Woj, Lakers, Celtics, Dubs, and Suns are among teams that are in the hunt.

If Myers somehow manages to get it done for D.Lee + HB, I would crap my pants.

 

[southernfriedwarrior]

Myers will need a big assist from Kevin Love to make this happen. Love has the leverage in this situation so he will dictate the trade and ultimately the terms of any trade. The more teams he's willing to play for the higher the price to acquire him. If he'll play for 6-8 different teams vs 2-3 I think the cost will be higher than Barnes and Lee.

 

[CitySushi]

Kevin Love's leverage comes from negotiating an extension with any teams that are willing to trade for him. If he doesn't give them a confirmation he'll extend, teams will be less willing to part with assets for a potential one year rental.

The Warriors trade of HB and Lee for Love would probably present the Wolves with the best of both worlds. Two players who can help them compete immediately, while also giving them a player in Barnes with upside. The Suns could offer numerous picks, but with their success last year and the addition of Love their value goes down because the Sun's picks would be lower. The Lakers have Kobe, but he's coming off a major injury and he's not nearly the Kobe we all remember. The Bulls could offer Boozer and Butler, but is that really that, if at all, better than Lee and Barnes?

Houston could be interesting depending on who they want to part with. I don't know if the T-Wolves would want either of Lin or Asik, who would likely have to be a part of the deal to make the money work.

The Warriors could do a deal like this:

Lee, Barnes and Nedovic for Love and Budinger.

The Wolves would get two quality players, one with upside. They also get to shed their worst contract of Budinger and clear a few mil in cap space at the same time.

That will be as an attractive offer that will be out there.

 

[southernfriedwarrior]

Kevin Love's leverage comes from negotiating an extension with any teams that are willing to trade for him. If he doesn't give them a confirmation he'll extend, teams will be less willing to part with assets for a potential one year rental.

The Warriors trade of HB and Lee for Love would probably present the Wolves with the best of both worlds. Two players who can help them compete immediately, while also giving them a player in Barnes with upside. The Suns could offer numerous picks, but with their success last year and the addition of Love their value goes down because the Sun's picks would be lower. The Lakers have Kobe, but he's coming off a major injury and he's not nearly the Kobe we all remember. The Bulls could offer Boozer and Butler, but is that really that, if at all, better than Lee and Barnes?

Houston could be interesting depending on who they want to part with. I don't know if the T-Wolves would want either of Lin or Asik, who would likely have to be a part of the deal to make the money work.

The Warriors could do a deal like this:

Lee, Barnes and Nedovic for Love and Budinger.

The Wolves would get two quality players, one with upside. They also get to shed their worst contract of Budinger and clear a few mil in cap space at the same time.

That will be as an attractive offer that will be out there.

Like I said, the more selective Love is, the better chances of this happening for the Warriors. By happening, I mean acquiring him for the relatively low and reasonable price of Lee and Barnes and filler. If he's willing to play for Houston, or other teams in addition to the initial list we've seen, the price of acquistion is likely to up. It that happens, I hope Myers walks away, as I personally don't want to see Thompson dealt.

 

[CitySushi]

Like I said, the more selective Love is, the better chances of this happening for the Warriors. By happening, I mean acquiring him for the relatively low and reasonable price of Lee and Barnes and filler. If he's willing to play for Houston, or other teams in addition to the initial list we've seen, the price of acquistion is likely to up. It that happens, I hope Myers walks away, as I personally don't want to see Thompson dealt.

It would be hard to see them deal Klay, but out of necessity they may need to. I personally would love to see Klay on the team for the next 5 years. I'm a big fan. On the flip side there is the business portion of this deal.

Klay is due for a sizable extension. By dealing Klay instead of Barnes, it allows the Warriors to retain Barnes for an additional year and give the Warriors a bit more financial flexibility. If we deal for Love, he'll get the Max Extension which would come with a raise.

Losing Klay would be difficult, but it would put Barnes back into the starting lineup as a 3 and Iguodala back at the 2. Klay is a great outside shooter, but so is Love.

Love is a superstar. Klay will be a very good player but I'm not sure he'll ever reach stardom. Maybe an All-star appearance at best. You need at least two stars in this league to win.

I would love to see them be able to get Love and retain Klay, but I don't think the Warriors hang up the phone when they ask for him.

 

[southernfriedwarrior]

It would be hard to see them deal Klay, but out of necessity they may need to. I personally would love to see Klay on the team for the next 5 years. I'm a big fan. On the flip side there is the business portion of this deal.

Klay is due for a sizable extension. By dealing Klay instead of Barnes, it allows the Warriors to retain Barnes for an additional year and give the Warriors a bit more financial flexibility. If we deal for Love, he'll get the Max Extension which would come with a raise.

Losing Klay would be difficult, but it would put Barnes back into the starting lineup as a 3 and Iguodala back at the 2. Klay is a great outside shooter, but so is Love.

Love is a superstar. Klay will be a very good player but I'm not sure he'll ever reach stardom. Maybe an All-star appearance at best. You need at least two stars in this league to win.

I would love to see them be able to get Love and retain Klay, but I don't think the Warriors hang up the phone when they ask for him.

If Love really wants to be here, and the Warriors are his #1 choice, his actions can help the Warriors to retain Thompson. He just needs to let the rest of league know that there is only one team he's interested in signing an extension with. In that case, Minnesota will have zero leverage in the situation, and won't be in a position to demand Thompson in a trade. Of course that's the Warrior's dream scenario isn't it.:rollseyes:

 

[tzill]

If Love really wants to be here, and the Warriors are his #1 choice, his actions can help the Warriors to retain Thompson. He just needs to let the rest of league know that there is only one team he's interested in signing an extension with. In that case, Minnesota will have zero leverage in the situation, and won't be in a position to demand Thompson in a trade. Of course that's the Warrior's dream scenario isn't it.:rollseyes:

Why would he do that? Better question: what agent would let that happen? It borders on malpractice.

There are several moving parts here:
1. How desperate Minny is to get something for KLove before he walks;
2. How much Minny values Avi;
3. How much Minny values HB;
4. How much the Ws value Klay;
5. How much Minny values Suns draft picks; and
6. How much Minny values Boozer and Butler.

My sense of it is that the Ws, with coach Kerr, are not going to deal Steph or Klay, and Draymond is pretty close to untouchable as well. Bogut and Iggy's contracts make them basically untradable. So Minny is left with Avi and HB. And Nedo and Kuzmic, Armstrong, Speights, etc...

Will Avi and HB be the best deal they could get? Maybe. Avi would be a fan favorite and HB has upside.

If they insist on Klay, I say we pass on the deal and let Avi become a $15MM expiring next offseason.

 

[CohanHater]

Why would he do that? Better question: what agent would let that happen? It borders on malpractice.


My sense of it is that the Ws, with coach Kerr, are not going to deal Steph or Klay, and Draymond is pretty close to untouchable as well. Bogut and Iggy's contracts make them basically untradable. So Minny is left with Avi and HB. And Nedo and Kuzmic, Armstrong, Speights, etc...

Will Avi and HB be the best deal they could get? Maybe. Avi would be a fan favorite and HB has upside.

If they insist on Klay, I say we pass on the deal and let Avi become a $15MM expiring next offseason.

Draymond is far from untradeable, but I don't think he's a piece in this trade. Klay is tradeable, especially projecting his big payday around the corner. Remember, you can always find 2 guards, especially when your 4 is a dead-eye shooter. I think that's the proper move to be honest.

Klay and Lee for Love. Pick roll/pick pop would be absolutely lethal.

 

[Reefer]

Draymond is far from untradeable, but I don't think he's a piece in this trade. Klay is tradeable, especially projecting his big payday around the corner. Remember, you can always find 2 guards, especially when your 4 is a dead-eye shooter. I think that's the proper move to be honest.

Klay and Lee for Love. Pick roll/pick pop would be absolutely lethal.

I disagree with that statement. Yea you can always find 2 guards like Nick Young, but Klay is 24, a strong 2 way player and a pretty good compliment to Curry. He will not be easy to replace.

If the Wolves love Klay enough that they decide he is the guy they would want most in a Love trade, then maybe they make that deal, but I still think they could get more. If its just Klay leaving then I suppose Barnes can play the 3 and Iguodala the 2. It's possible Barnes can replace a lot of what Klay brings or he could never reach that potential we saw last year in the playoffs and the Warriors end up battling for a playoff spot instead of home court. If were the Wolves I'd want young players and picks and would not take Lee unless they really made it worth it. They would be in a rebuild and Lee is not a guy they can turn around and flip easily for good value. I could see Lee being involved if there is a 3rd team, but wouldn't you rather get 2 or 3 1st rounders and a young player rather than basically just Klay? I just don't see how the Warriors realistically get Love without giving up 2 of Klay, Green and Barnes as well as their 2015 pick. If the Warriors give up that much, then Myers better find a way to add some depth because I think they would be left with a great starting 5 and a bunch of nothings on the bench.

 

[Reefer]

Why would he do that? Better question: what agent would let that happen? It borders on malpractice.

There are several moving parts here:
1. How desperate Minny is to get something for KLove before he walks;
2. How much Minny values Avi;
3. How much Minny values HB;
4. How much the Ws value Klay;
5. How much Minny values Suns draft picks; and
6. How much Minny values Boozer and Butler.

My sense of it is that the Ws, with coach Kerr, are not going to deal Steph or Klay, and Draymond is pretty close to untouchable as well. Bogut and Iggy's contracts make them basically untradable. So Minny is left with Avi and HB. And Nedo and Kuzmic, Armstrong, Speights, etc...

Will Avi and HB be the best deal they could get? Maybe. Avi would be a fan favorite and HB has upside.

If they insist on Klay, I say we pass on the deal and let Avi become a $15MM expiring next offseason.

If they wanted they could absolutely trade Iguodala. 3 35 left cap hits of 12.3, 11.7 and 11.1. Wolves would likely have little interest, but plenty of other teams if they wanted to move him for other pieces for Love or depth. I think it wouldn't make sense to deal him anyway.

 

[southernfriedwarrior]

Why would he do that? Better question: what agent would let that happen? It borders on malpractice.

There are several moving parts here:
1. How desperate Minny is to get something for KLove before he walks;
2. How much Minny values Avi;
3. How much Minny values HB;
4. How much the Ws value Klay;
5. How much Minny values Suns draft picks; and
6. How much Minny values Boozer and Butler.

My sense of it is that the Ws, with coach Kerr, are not going to deal Steph or Klay, and Draymond is pretty close to untouchable as well. Bogut and Iggy's contracts make them basically untradable. So Minny is left with Avi and HB. And Nedo and Kuzmic, Armstrong, Speights, etc...

Will Avi and HB be the best deal they could get? Maybe. Avi would be a fan favorite and HB has upside.

If they insist on Klay, I say we pass on the deal and let Avi become a $15MM expiring next offseason.

I don't understand what you mean by malpractice. Any team that trades for him already knows his price (as he and his agent will make that clear), and will have to pay that price for him to be willing to sign an extension. The only party a multi-team scenario really benefits is Minnesota, as they can play multiple teams off against one another, and jack up the cost of acquiring him. If Love wants to go to a contender, he can help that team out by making his intentions clear, as to where he's willing to sign an extension. If he truly wants to be here, he should make that clear. Under those terms the Warriors will have to give up less to acquire him as Minn. then has zero leverage over the situation. Take our deal or get nothing for him, unless some team is willing to gamble that they can talk him into re-signing with them which is a risky proposition to say the least. Of course this scenario is unlikely, but we can at least hope he narrows the field to just a couple of teams. The story as reported on in the media has Boston, Houston, NY, Suns, Warriors, Bulls and LA in the hunt at the moment.

 

[NBKLee]

Draymond is far from untradeable, but I don't think he's a piece in this trade. Klay is tradeable, especially projecting his big payday around the corner. Remember, you can always find 2 guards, especially when your 4 is a dead-eye shooter. I think that's the proper move to be honest.

Klay and Lee for Love. Pick roll/pick pop would be absolutely lethal.

Here's the thing with Green, he basically is a Smart/ hustle/energy/rebounder who is only making 900k.

Can we upgrade from him? Sure, but its going to cost 5-6 mil a year to get a "upgrade" , and that cap space could be better used elsewhere.

With Klay off the team, who is supposed to "pick and pop"? Steph, and Love would be the only real shooters left. AI#9 is too streaky, and hB isn't reliable. Green is decent at times, but streaky aswell.

Klay is #1a if not #1b currently as the best shooter on the roster.