Cam Newton

[flamingrey]

Flaming has always hated Vick. Might as well not even try to have a conversation about anything like this with him. I'd go Brady, Brees, Rivers, Ryan, Vick. With Mannings neck injury he scares me too much to take. A healthy manning is above him for now though. With Bradford and Freeman close behind.

This coming from the guy who argued Vick was the best QB - bar none - in the league because he had a great first 4 weeks of the season.

 

[Tubbs1518]

Vick was the best all around QB last year period. Stats back that up. The only person that can rival him is Brady. Where was your boys Schaub and McNabb at when the playoffs started? At home because they couldn't get their team where they wanted to go. Vick is a top 4-6 QB in this league. And you wanna talk about people choking in big games, Matt Ryan had a real great game against GB last year didn't he? I'd take Brady, Rodgers and Rivers over for Vick for sure. Brees, Manning are maybes, Ryan us another maybe. No one else.

 

[flamingrey]

They should include fumbles in QB rating. It would shed more accurate light into Vick's abilities. 11 fumbles last year with 7 lost? Ouch!

Might as well be 7 additional interceptions....just sayin'.

 

[flamingrey]

More ugly stats for Vick:

Eagles last year were 16th in the league in redzone (touchdown) scoring percentage. It's always fun to rack up all them yards and then have to settle for 3 because your QB "skills" significantly diminish as the field gets shorter. But hey, those yards sure do look good in the stat sheet.

 

[futballiscool]

Physical talent means nothing at the QB position. Give me an immobile pocket passer over a "physically talented" QB any day of the week.

Additionally, the first 4 or so games Vick played, he played out of his mind. I believe all above 120 QB rating. After that he dramatically dropped off and came to average about a 100 QB rating to finish the season.

Furthermore, no other team in the league averaged more yac than the Eagles. Great at inflating QB's yards and QB rating.

All that said, it is absolutely possible to rate Vick right now. He is what we saw in Atlanta. Just like any other QB that has played under Reid, he's stats are monstrously inflated.

Also, not to mention, good QB's with Vick's "physical talent" always tend to look very good in the regular season. Vince Young (and McNabb who was way more of a pocket passer to a much lesser extent) is a great example of this. Look at his win/loss percentages. Great against below .500 teams, and average at best (something like 11-14) against above .500 teams. Main reason? Teams that are above .500 usually have much better defenses than those below .500.

Vick this past season was much the same. Against the teams with bad defenses - those that don't have the means to defend against the pass and Vick's threat to run - Vick looked great. Against teams with good defenses - the ones that show up in the playoffs - Vick looked and was very average. Another reason why they were one and done in the playoffs. Vick wasn't "himself" against a very good defense.

While a couple of the QB's I mentioned aren't great, you give them the offense Vick has with the same surrounding talent and they have similar success in the regular season with a much better chance for more success in the playoffs as good defenses can't as easily neutralize a huge facet of their games.

The Eagles only failed to score 27 pts (with Vick playing the entire 4 quarters) in one regular season game last season... that's ridiculous.. they averaged close 35 pts a game with him at QB...

Nobody figured him out. The 4th quarter of the Giants game was arguably his defining moment and it was in week 15. he took over the game... that was HOF great...

I'm not sure how poor his postseason game was either. the Eagles lost on the final play of the game to the eventual SB champs. a better WR makes a play on that ball... his passer rating was around 80, but he acounted for 2 tds and 320 total yds... and Ryan, Cutler, Roethlisbeger struggled vs that same Packers defense...

He might be a one yr wonder. I think he's Steve Young.. a HOF talent who'll showcase his skillset over the second half of his career

 

[flamingrey]

His first 5 of 6 games (the 6th he was injured in the 1st quarter), he had QB ratings of 102, 108, 119, 94, and 151.

His final 7 games, he had QB ratings of 83, 94, 103, 90, 98 (that vaunted Giants game), 74, and 80.

He was absolutely figured out.

The way I remember that Giants game, Desean Jackson absolutely destroyed the Giants with huge ST returns and huge yac. And the Eagles defense was lights out.

I'm not much for comparing other QB's single games against a common opponent.

 

[Tubbs1518]

Couldn't have said it better myself Futball.

 

[Tubbs1518]

I'm sorry I didn't know 4/7 games over 90 rating and one of those over 100 was getting figured out. He also had 2 over 80. 0 under 70. Your hate is insane. It's undeniable. It's hilarious.

 

[futballiscool]

"The way I remember that Giants game, Desean Jackson absolutely destroyed the Giants with huge ST returns and huge yac. And the Eagles defense was lights out"

Vick had 4 total tds that game... 3 of them in the 4th quarter in a come from behind win)...

as far as his passer rating, it was still well above 90 over the final 6 regular games you're referencing. the only poor regular season game was the Vikings game...

that's not enough to say he was figured out...

this season will be the proof either way

 

[flamingrey]

Absolutely...you take out all those yac and include fumbles and the stats would tell a different story. He had a 4 game stretch (Dallas, Houston, Chicago, NYG...Games 10-13) where he had 4 interceptions and 7 fumbles. Good defenses were suffocating him. Back to the point where he'll always kill bad defenses but struggle against the types of teams he'll see in the playoffs.

 

[flamingrey]

I just watched the highlights of that Giants game, the 1st TD Celek scored 37 yards after the catch. The 2nd 2 TD's Vick ran in and the majority of the yards in those drives Vick gained on the ground. All the credit to him, but he hardly broke out as a QB that game.

 

[cincygrad]

I think it's unfair to compare Cam Newton to Michael Vick.... Vick has never won a damn thing. Cam's a winner and I think he'll win at the NFL level.

 

[cincygrad]

And if I'm wrong, I'll be here! LOL! Smuck!

 

[futballiscool]

I think it's unfair to compare Cam Newton to Michael Vick.... Vick has never won a damn thing. Cam's a winner and I think he'll win at the NFL level.

the guy's won multiple division titles, playoff games and wins about 60 percent of the time in the regular season...

unless you have Cam Newton wining a SB sometime soon how is he eclipsing Vick as a "winner" in the NFL?

I'm not a Vick fanboy so I hate defending him this much...

I just thought he looked pretty damn impressive last season

 

[bengaldoug]

I loathe Vick....

 

[ckhokie]

His first 5 of 6 games (the 6th he was injured in the 1st quarter), he had QB ratings of 102, 108, 119, 94, and 151.

His final 7 games, he had QB ratings of 83, 94, 103, 90, 98 (that vaunted Giants game), 74, and 80.

He was absolutely figured out.

Where in those stats do you see someone who was 'Figured Out'??

Your boy Matthew Stafford, who YOU said was better than Mike Vick has a career (of 16 games) QB rating of 76.

Your blind hate is hilarious.

 

[flamingrey]

Actually, I said:

We might be able to make a case for Stafford if he could ever stay on the field long enough.

Please don't make stuff up just to try to make a point.

 

[kramer1]

Just Rey being Rey again. LOL @ these threads. Grow the fuck up.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Newton sucks, end of story. I would rather have Dalton than Camille.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Just Rey being Rey again. LOL @ these threads. Grow the fuck up.

Can't really begin to say how ironic that response was.