Bill Simmons trade idea

[shopson67]

Please name 1 other than the obvious (Boston)

You are way undervaluing Simmons here. He is still on a rookie contract for the next 1.5 seasons before he hits RFA

After considering how good he is currently, + his future upside + his contract, there aren't 5 players in the entire NBA with more current trade value than Simmons. And AD is not one of them because he is only under contract 1.5 more years.

5.5 years of Simmons is worth more than 1.5 of AD to any non-contender.

That's all great and all, but what do the Pelicans need? They have play makers (Jrue has a long contract, Payton will be a free agent) and PFs even without AD (Mirotic, Randle, Diallo). Where does Simmons fit? The Pelicans need scoring wings and a center if AD is going to be moved.

The Celtics are immediately the best fit, but will they want to give up the players that the Pelicans will want (and they have the picks). The Lakers have young pieces, but they most likely aren't enough in return. The Kings and Suns could make significant offers of young players. I'm not going to go through the entire league, as I'm sure there will surprise offers from unexpected teams, but there will be plenty of options.

As far as value, that rookie contract doesn't help a lot when you're trying to acquire a player in trade that costs exceedingly more. What other bad contracts does Philly offer to balance out the salaries? Cost isn't the ultimate determination of value either, especially when we're talking about a top 5 player in the league.

 

[shopson67]

I agree about teams "sort of expecting Boston to overpay." That is what it is. It doesn't mean Boston necessarily has to agree to overpay... but it's an issue.

That aside: I don't necessarily agree that the C's have to give up Tatum to get AD... especially if we're talking this season. If New Orleans was of a mind to trade this season... then Smart, Brown (and possibly a Rozier or whatever) and 3 1st round drafts is a decent offer. If New Orleans is dead set on Tatum, too... then I'm fully supportive of a no from Boston's end.

You talk about Boston losing value as time goes on... what about New Orleans? They're also losing from a bargaining position as time goes on... worse than Boston or any other team, IMO.

Celtics can't trade for AD this season unless Kyrie is in the trade. For Boston to get involved, it will have to be after the season (as I don't see the Pelicans trading for an expiring Kyrie, or being able to extend him with Jrue already on a lengthy deal). No team can have two designated players that achieved the 30% raise from their rookie contracts.

 

[flyerhawk]

That's all great and all, but what do the Pelicans need? They have play makers (Jrue has a long contract, Payton will be a free agent) and PFs even without AD (Mirotic, Randle, Diallo). Where does Simmons fit? The Pelicans need scoring wings and a center if AD is going to be moved.

The Celtics are immediately the best fit, but will they want to give up the players that the Pelicans will want (and they have the picks). The Lakers have young pieces, but they most likely aren't enough in return. The Kings and Suns could make significant offers of young players. I'm not going to go through the entire league, as I'm sure there will surprise offers from unexpected teams, but there will be plenty of options.

As far as value, that rookie contract doesn't help a lot when you're trying to acquire a player in trade that costs exceedingly more. What other bad contracts does Philly offer to balance out the salaries? Cost isn't the ultimate determination of value either, especially when we're talking about a top 5 player in the league.

There is no question that the Pelicans don't want to trade AD. But what they REALLY don't want is to lose AD for nothing. That is an existential danger for the Pels.

So any trade scenarios involving AD are predicated on the Pels deciding that they have no choice but to trade him.

With that in mind the Pels can either try and bring in a LOT of players and use them to build the team or they could try to get one marquee player in return or they could go the draft pick route. Bringing in a lot of players is a good way to improve the team in the short term but screw them in the mid and long term. Trading for, as an example, Brown, Rozier, Williams and Ojelye doesn't really get them in a better position in the short or medium term. Adding Tatum into that mix could change matters as he could be a franchise level player.

While you seem to think that Simmons has limited value, you are on a pretty lonely island that one. But rather than rehashing that debate, I'll just say that I don't think the Sixers would even consider that trade. So its moot.

So what other organizations would seriously make a move for him? The Lakers? Maybe but I'm not sure that the Pels would be thrilled with a haul of Ingram, Kuzma, and Hart for AD. Ingram still has a chance to become a really good player but with each passing year that prospect decreases.

Perhaps if the Knicks win the Zion sweepstakes they could offer one of Knox/Ziggy and Zion plus change for AD. That could potentially work but only if the Pels think Zion is a superstar in the making.

I honestly can't think of another team that has enough ambition and enough assets to make a move for him. The Clippers maybe?

 

[shopson67]

While you seem to think that Simmons has limited value, you are on a pretty lonely island that one. But rather than rehashing that debate, I'll just say that I don't think the Sixers would even consider that trade. So its moot.

I agree that neither side has interest in such a trade. It's not that Simmons has limited value, just that his value is not as high to the Pelicans.

The Lakers will definitely make a move for AD, but do they have the pieces? I'm not so sure.

Why do you assume that the Kings and/or Suns aren't "ambitious enough" to make a move, but the Knicks would be? Strange thought IMO. Now if it's a matter of AD wanting to stay there, that is yet to be determined.

 

[flyerhawk]

I agree that neither side has interest in such a trade. It's not that Simmons has limited value, just that his value is not as high to the Pelicans.

The Lakers will definitely make a move for AD, but do they have the pieces? I'm not so sure.

Why do you assume that the Kings and/or Suns aren't "ambitious enough" to make a move, but the Knicks would be? Strange thought IMO. Now if it's a matter of AD wanting to stay there, that is yet to be determined.

It's more a matter of what would the Suns/Kings be willing to give up and how confident would they be that they could retain AD? The Knicks might be willing to make such a move on the assumption that they could keep AD in the Big Apple?

As for the Lakers, it ultimately depends on what teams are willing to actually offer.

 

[Gman]

Celtics can't trade for AD this season unless Kyrie is in the trade. For Boston to get involved, it will have to be after the season (as I don't see the Pelicans trading for an expiring Kyrie, or being able to extend him with Jrue already on a lengthy deal). No team can have two designated players that achieved the 30% raise from their rookie contracts.

Yes, fair enough... the dialogue I've seen from folks close to the Celtics suggest that the time things would most likely go down (if things go down at all with AD) is between this season and the next.

Here's a good article on the matter, from the C's point-of-view:

The Anthony Davis trade smoke is blowing to LA and Boston

 

[trojanfan12]

It's more a matter of what would the Suns/Kings be willing to give up and how confident would they be that they could retain AD? The Knicks might be willing to make such a move on the assumption that they could keep AD in the Big Apple?

As for the Lakers, it ultimately depends on what teams are willing to actually offer.

Agree with all of this. The Lakers can make a very nice, very respectable offer...but they can't make one that can't be beat by, at the least, the Sixers and Celtics.

The one thing that could seriously help the Lakers is the fact that he is signed with Klutch and Klutch, on at least some level, is beholden to Lebron.

So, the question would be, how bad does AD want to be a Laker and how much is Klutch willing to poison the well to get him there?

If the Celtics or Sixers want him, they will be able to beat whatever offer the Lakers make.

But...if Klutch makes it very clear that no matter what, AD isn't re-signing with anyone but the Lakers, that may drive down the other offers enough that the Pelicans end up taking the Lakers offer.

Then again, the addition of AD could mean the Sixers or Celtics win a title. So, they may choose to beat the Lakers offer anyway and then dare him to walk away from a team that just won a title or at least made the finals.

 

[flyerhawk]

Agree with all of this. The Lakers can make a very nice, very respectable offer...but they can't make one that can't be beat by, at the least, the Sixers and Celtics.

The one thing that could seriously help the Lakers is the fact that he is signed with Klutch and Klutch, on at least some level, is beholden to Lebron.

So, the question would be, how bad does AD want to be a Laker and how much is Klutch willing to poison the well to get him there?

If the Celtics or Sixers want him, they will be able to beat whatever offer the Lakers make.

But...if Klutch makes it very clear that no matter what, AD isn't re-signing with anyone but the Lakers, that may drive down the other offers enough that the Pelicans end up taking the Lakers offer.

Then again, the addition of AD could mean the Sixers or Celtics win a title. So, they may choose to beat the Lakers offer anyway and then dare him to walk away from a team that just won a title or at least made the finals.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't think the Sixers would seriously consider trading Ben to get AD.

I DO think the Celtics would consider trading Tatum to get AD. Depending on the situation.

 

[Gman]

Agree with all of this. The Lakers can make a very nice, very respectable offer...but they can't make one that can't be beat by, at the least, the Sixers and Celtics.

The one thing that could seriously help the Lakers is the fact that he is signed with Klutch and Klutch, on at least some level, is beholden to Lebron.

So, the question would be, how bad does AD want to be a Laker and how much is Klutch willing to poison the well to get him there?

If the Celtics or Sixers want him, they will be able to beat whatever offer the Lakers make.

But...if Klutch makes it very clear that no matter what, AD isn't re-signing with anyone but the Lakers, that may drive down the other offers enough that the Pelicans end up taking the Lakers offer.

Then again, the addition of AD could mean the Sixers or Celtics win a title. So, they may choose to beat the Lakers offer anyway and then dare him to walk away from a team that just won a title or at least made the finals.

And... it's gotta be said... LeBron is getting old, man.

Does AD ignore that? Or rationalize it away?

Is AD really willing to go to any length to play with old man Bron in L.A. come whatever else transpires?



I don't know the answer to those questions. But LeBron's age is gonna matter one of these days... and that day is getting closer.

 

[trojanfan12]

And... it's gotta be said... LeBron is getting old, man.

Does AD ignore that? Or rationalize it away?

Is AD really willing to go to any length to play with old man Bron in L.A. come whatever else transpires?



I don't know the answer to those questions. But LeBron's age is gonna matter one of these days... and that day is getting closer.

That's the thing though, imo, younger star players like AD should want to play with Lebron.

Lebron has what? 2-3 years left as the best in the game? Maybe an additional 2-3 as a top 10-15 player?

So, as a young star player, you get 2-3 years with Lebron as still the best in the game and then the Lakers become "your team" and carry on from there.

You get a couple of years to learn and maybe a title or 2 as well. Seems like a smart move to me.

 

[Gman]

That's the thing though, imo, younger star players like AD should want to play with Lebron.

Lebron has what? 2-3 years left as the best in the game? Maybe an additional 2-3 as a top 10-15 player?

So, as a young star player, you get 2-3 years with Lebron as still the best in the game and then the Lakers become "your team" and carry on from there.

You get a couple of years to learn and maybe a title or 2 as well. Seems like a smart move to me.

In 4 to 6 years LeBron is going to be 38-40.

LeBron is an animal... a workout warrior... he keeps himself in impeccable shape. I'm a hater, but I have nothing but respect for how LeBron handles his professional responsibility to stay in peak physical form.

But late 30's?... at his size?... ... I don't know, man.

 

[flyerhawk]

That's the thing though, imo, younger star players like AD should want to play with Lebron.

Lebron has what? 2-3 years left as the best in the game? Maybe an additional 2-3 as a top 10-15 player?

So, as a young star player, you get 2-3 years with Lebron as still the best in the game and then the Lakers become "your team" and carry on from there.

You get a couple of years to learn and maybe a title or 2 as well. Seems like a smart move to me.

Wait, you think that young stars should come play for the Lakers?

 

[shopson67]

In 4 to 6 years LeBron is going to be 38-40.

LeBron is an animal... a workout warrior... he keeps himself in impeccable shape. I'm a hater, but I have nothing but respect for how LeBron handles his professional responsibility to stay in peak physical form.

But late 30's?... at his size?... ... I don't know, man.

I think he needs to start scaling back the bulk. A lighter load on the back, knees, feet, etc can only help.

 

[trojanfan12]

In 4 to 6 years LeBron is going to be 38-40.

LeBron is an animal... a workout warrior... he keeps himself in impeccable shape. I'm a hater, but I have nothing but respect for how LeBron handles his professional responsibility to stay in peak physical form.

But late 30's?... at his size?... ... I don't know, man.

I agree. But folks are saying he might have as many as 7 years left. It will all come down to health, imo. Kobe was still pretty darn good until he blew out his Achilles. If Lebron can avoid any major injury, who knows?

And if you're a young star and you play alongside him and he ends up being done sooner, than the Lakers become "your team" sooner.

 

[trojanfan12]

Wait, you think that young stars should come play for the Lakers?

Shocking, isn't it? lol

 

[Mecca]

Jrue would be fourth best based on what they have now. That being said, it goes Embiid, Simmoons, Butler. For all I know Jrue might be better once I get a better look at him. We did have Jrue and he was nice, proprs to the pelicans for letting him support his wife during her surgery and recovery period,i'd hope the sixers would do the same, it's a sad news good news story, i'll eat them up every day

what am I talking about, I ask that as I'm sure I responded to this post before. now that i look at it i see it's a dig at Jrue, I'll keep my words to myself, but don't talk sht about Jrue.

What the fuck are you talking about?

How is it a dig at Jrue?

He's really good.

But, put him as the 2nd best player on the 76ers, Raptors, Dubs....

What would their record be?

You are shitting on Davis when he doesn't have a great supporting cast.

 

[Mecca]

You are looking at the players purely on their current ability.

The only player you listed that I would say are clearly untouchable are Curry and Freak. The Warriors probably wouldn't trade Durant for Simmons right now because they are going for a title but they might because Durant is a FA next year and everything points to him leaving. Simmons would immediately revamp a roster that is showing its age. We've already discussed AD.

Simmons isn't at the same level as those guys on the court. But he's much younger and cost controlled. Those are big deals.

Yes, I am looking at it based on the now.

But, also based on where those teams are today.

Replace any of the Warriors I named with Ben and would they still be the favorites to win it all?

Replace Davis or LeBron with Simmons and those teams are lottery bound because he doesn't score enough.

Them be the facts.

The rest of the roster matters.

Now, replace Ben with Lillard.

76ers would win the East.

 

[Taddy Mason]

What the fuck are you talking about?

How is it a dig at Jrue?

He's really good.

But, put him as the 2nd best player on the 76ers, Raptors, Dubs....

What would their record be?

You are shitting on Davis when he doesn't have a great supporting cast.

Shit, that was last night's take, fuck all if I can remember what I was talking about

 

[Mecca]

There is no question that the Pelicans don't want to trade AD. But what they REALLY don't want is to lose AD for nothing. That is an existential danger for the Pels.

So any trade scenarios involving AD are predicated on the Pels deciding that they have no choice but to trade him.

With that in mind the Pels can either try and bring in a LOT of players and use them to build the team or they could try to get one marquee player in return or they could go the draft pick route. Bringing in a lot of players is a good way to improve the team in the short term but screw them in the mid and long term. Trading for, as an example, Brown, Rozier, Williams and Ojelye doesn't really get them in a better position in the short or medium term. Adding Tatum into that mix could change matters as he could be a franchise level player.

While you seem to think that Simmons has limited value, you are on a pretty lonely island that one. But rather than rehashing that debate, I'll just say that I don't think the Sixers would even consider that trade. So its moot.

So what other organizations would seriously make a move for him? The Lakers? Maybe but I'm not sure that the Pels would be thrilled with a haul of Ingram, Kuzma, and Hart for AD. Ingram still has a chance to become a really good player but with each passing year that prospect decreases.

Perhaps if the Knicks win the Zion sweepstakes they could offer one of Knox/Ziggy and Zion plus change for AD. That could potentially work but only if the Pels think Zion is a superstar in the making.

I honestly can't think of another team that has enough ambition and enough assets to make a move for him. The Clippers maybe?

I don't think he has limited value.

He has Star potential, Superstar if he gets a jumper.

I just think Davis is a tier above.

In fairness, there are only 5 or 6 guys in that category.

So, saying he has less value than 6 other guys isn't really a dig or reach.

Unless you mean his contract?

It becomes a problem if you don't have the assets to match salary or the space to absorb Davis' money.

 

[Mecca]

Shit, that was last night's take, fuck all if I can remember what I was talking about

Lmao...

Sounds like a good night.

It's all good...lol