Bill Simmons trade idea

[lebron23james]

So, their best strategy is to sit tight, do nothing, and let him walk..........

Sometimes that is the best move vs getting back medicore talent in return...Cavs got nothing for Lebron but it landed them Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love...and possibly Zion next

NO will never get another AD, might as well just hold onto him, and then tank

 

[flyerhawk]

Giannis is the only player on that list that definitely has more trade value than Simmons. Everyone else is debateable either due to age or contract reasons.

Curry, for example, definitely does not have more trade value. He is on a supermax. If both teams were under the cap enough to make the saley work, the team getting Simmons could use the cap savings to sign another max player. Curry is significantly better than Simmons. But he isn't more valuable because of the $30 some million difference in annual salary.

Completely agree on all of this. Additionally Curry is far more valuable to the Warriors than anyone else in the league would.

Which is part of the trickiness in these discussions. People often confuse trade value with intrinsic value.

The Warriors would not trade Steph Curry for any other player in the league. That doesn't make him the most valuable trade asset in the league though.

 

[flyerhawk]

White Knight alert

He is able to handle himself perfectly well. You came into this thread purely for trolling purposes.

 

[lebron23james]

He is able to handle himself perfectly well. You came into this thread purely for trolling purposes.

Clearly you didn't read my next comment...Classic

 

[flyerhawk]

Clearly you didn't read my next comment...Classic

You didn't have a next comment until your white knight nonsense.

 

[shopson67]

I am not assuming that at all. In fact, I have said multiple times that Simmons would not be available.

Your position is that "Simmons + salary filler is not enough to land AD"

And that is proposterous. It would be a grand slam homerun trade for the Pelicans if they could land it. They won't. The question is whether it would be good for Philly. That part is debateable and would hinge on a Davis extension.

I disagree completely. I prefer my franchise player to be able to shoot the ball. How do you build around a point that can't shoot? These days, even the centers are required to have shooting range. What's next, trading Fultz for Kawhi?

 

[shopson67]

Your argument was that Simmons wasn't enough to get AD. Now you are changing it to "You are assuming the Sixers would make Simmons available". The Sixers AREN'T going to make Simmons available. Not unless things change dramatically in Philly.

Right now, AD isn't on the trade block. And he may NEVER go on the trade block. But if we were to assume that they Pelicans DID put him on the market, the question is what would they want to get back in return?

If we used Bill Simons trade value list.....

Bill Simmons’s NBA Trade Value Rankings 2018-19

There are 7 other guys more valuable than Simmons from a trade perspective.

1. Giannis
2. AD
3. Steph
4. Lebron
5. Doncic
6. Embiid
7. Jokic

So using his list there are only 6 guys that would be a better trade option than Simmons for the Pels. Truth be told, I don't think the Pels would trade AD for Lebron or Steph as they are too old. And I think that Simmons has guzzled the Kool Aid a bit much on Luka and his name will drop way down the next time he updates this.

But this is what you are looking at. Any of the other guys in the top 20 are either not desirable for the Pels or there is next to no chance they could become available. Except for Ziggy, Fox and Dame.

Simmons' availability is just another facet. My original argument is that NEITHER team wants to trade Simmons for AD. It doesn't work for either franchise and makes no sense whatsoever.

Assuming there is value in Bill Simmons' rankings (not so sure about that), that's a list.. However, accumulation of assets can also approach ADs value, even if multi-team deals are needed to get the right pieces. I don't see any way that trading AD for Simmons doesn't ultimately result in the Pelicans continued demise and Simmons ultimately leaving as well.

As far as trade value, why wouldn't Doncic be near or higher than Simmons? He's 3 years younger and putting up stats approaching Simmons' AND CAN SHOOT. Simmons' stats are basically peak '15/'16 Draymond Green without the perimeter shooting right now.

Doncic: 19.6 ppg, 4.9 apg, 6.7 reb, 1.1 stl, 3.3 to
Simmons: 16.4 ppg, 8.0 apg, 9.0 reb, 1.3 stl, 3.4 to
Green 15/16: 14.0 ppg, 7.4 apg, 9.5 reb, 1.5 stl, 3.2 to

 

[flyerhawk]

Simmons' availability is just another facet. My original argument is that NEITHER team wants to trade Simmons for AD. It doesn't work for either franchise and makes no sense whatsoever.

Assuming there is value in Bill Simmons' rankings (not so sure about that), that's a list.. However, accumulation of assets can also approach ADs value, even if multi-team deals are needed to get the right pieces. I don't see any way that trading AD for Simmons doesn't ultimately result in the Pelicans continued demise and Simmons ultimately leaving as well.

Well I guess if the accumulated assets represented a lot of value, that would be a better solution. Some protected 1st round picks doesn't sound like it.

As far as trade value, why wouldn't Doncic be near or higher than Simmons? He's 3 years younger and putting up stats approaching Simmons' AND CAN SHOOT. Simmons' stats are basically peak '15/'16 Draymond Green without the perimeter shooting right now.

Doncic is certainly a valuable asset. My point was simply that Doncic has tapered off some recently and the hype around him was because of a few big shots. He's absolutely a super highly prized asset.

You seem to really downgrade Simmons because he doesn't shoot jumpers. I think you do so way too much. Even without a jump shot he is still a top 20 player in the NBA I

Doncic: 19.6 ppg, 4.9 apg, 6.7 reb, 1.1 stl, 3.3 to
Simmons: 16.4 ppg, 8.0 apg, 9.0 reb, 1.3 stl, 3.4 to
Green 15/16: 14.0 ppg, 7.4 apg, 9.5 reb, 1.5 stl, 3.2 to

Draymond Green was one of the best players in basketball that year and has been the glue that has kept the Warriors together. So I would say comparing 2nd year Ben Simmons to him is a pretty good compliment.

Do you know how many players in the history of basketball have replicated or exceeded Ben Simmon's stat line? 4. Oscar Robertson, Wilt, Magic, Westbrook. And now Ben Simmons.

 

[tlance]

I disagree completely. I prefer my franchise player to be able to shoot the ball. How do you build around a point that can't shoot? These days, even the centers are required to have shooting range. What's next, trading Fultz for Kawhi?

LOL.

Did you really just say that?

Ben Simmons is 22. You know who else couldn't shoot when they were 22?

LeBron couldn't. Jordan couldn't shoot past 18 feet.

Shame on you for comparing Simmons to Fultz. That is just ignorant. Good thing you aren't a GM.

 

[tlance]

Well I guess if the accumulated assets represented a lot of value, that would be a better solution. Some protected 1st round picks doesn't sound like it.



Doncic is certainly a valuable asset. My point was simply that Doncic has tapered off some recently and the hype around him was because of a few big shots. He's absolutely a super highly prized asset.

You seem to really downgrade Simmons because he doesn't shoot jumpers. I think you do so way too much. Even without a jump shot he is still a top 20 player in the NBA I



Draymond Green was one of the best players in basketball that year and has been the glue that has kept the Warriors together. So I would say comparing 2nd year Ben Simmons to him is a pretty good compliment.

Do you know how many players in the history of basketball have replicated or exceeded Ben Simmon's stat line? 4. Oscar Robertson, Wilt, Magic, Westbrook. And now Ben Simmons.

Not to mention, his jump shot is improving.

I am actually super impressed with the fact that he doesn't shoot threes. There are worse shooters in the NBA who take 3 per game. Simmons doesn't take them because he doesn't make them at a high enough efficiency clip yet. I would be surprised if he doesn't start shooting some 3s within the next couple seasons. He is working on expanding his range.

 

[returnofjakedog]

I disagree completely. I prefer my franchise player to be able to shoot the ball. How do you build around a point that can't shoot? These days, even the centers are required to have shooting range. What's next, trading Fultz for Kawhi?

So you are saying trading Simmons for AD would be the same as trading Fultz for Kawhi??

Sorry, but that is an extremely, extremely, extremely poor analogy. And I am being very nice when I put it that way.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Let's put it a different way:

Let's say Davis comes out tomorrow and says "I will not resign with NOLA, zero chance of me coming back and I want to be traded ASAP."

Under that scenerio I think several offers become very palatable. Simmons could start looking like a real good option if that were the case.

 

[trojanfan12]

Not to mention, his jump shot is improving.

I am actually super impressed with the fact that he doesn't shoot threes. There are worse shooters in the NBA who take 3 per game. Simmons doesn't take them because he doesn't make them at a high enough efficiency clip yet. I would be surprised if he doesn't start shooting some 3s within the next couple seasons. He is working on expanding his range.

Yeah, he seems to have added a decent mid-range jumper. It's gotta be a bit of a Catch-22 for guys like him and Lonzo.

They know they have to shoot those shots to get better at them and help the team long term.

But they also know that, in the short term, they are hurting their teams chances to win games right now while they try to improve.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah, he seems to have added a decent mid-range jumper. It's gotta be a bit of a Catch-22 for guys like him and Lonzo.

They know they have to shoot those shots to get better at them and help the team long term.

But they also know that, in the short term, they are hurting their teams chances to win games right now while they try to improve.

It is definitely tricky. Brett Brown said he wants to see Ben shoot about a jumper a quarter. Something that can help him work on it but not something that should screw up the team too much. I definitely don't want to see Ben take 10 jumpers in a game at this point.

Lonzo is in a tougher situation. He has to bounce from primary playmaker to secondary off the ball player routinely when Lebron is on the court. And Lebron is definitely not a fan of other players bricking shots. So basically that leaves only the time Lonzo is on the court with out Lebron for him to shoot jumpers.

 

[Sparhawk]

If Simmons can cut down on 1 TO a game by shooting a jump shot, win-win!
Sometimes they even go in...

 

[trojanfan12]

It is definitely tricky. Brett Brown said he wants to see Ben shoot about a jumper a quarter. Something that can help him work on it but not something that should screw up the team too much. I definitely don't want to see Ben take 10 jumpers in a game at this point.

Lonzo is in a tougher situation. He has to bounce from primary playmaker to secondary off the ball player routinely when Lebron is on the court. And Lebron is definitely not a fan of other players bricking shots. So basically that leaves only the time Lonzo is on the court with out Lebron for him to shoot jumpers.

Agree. To be fair to Lebron, he has actually encouraged Lonzo to be more aggressive offensively.

But, as you point out, he's not a fan of bricks, so you wonder how long that patience will last. My guess is it will last until things start getting serious re: playoff seeding.

 

[lebron23james]

But, as you point out, he's not a fan of bricks, so you wonder how long that patience will last.

I thought he was a kobe fan?

 

[flyerhawk]

Agree. To be fair to Lebron, he has actually encouraged Lonzo to be more aggressive offensively.

But, as you point out, he's not a fan of bricks, so you wonder how long that patience will last. My guess is it will last until things start getting serious re: playoff seeding.

Yeah. The Lakers need to get on a little run and get some separation from the #9 slot in the West. Otherwise it will be full on LebronBall once he returns.

 

[flyerhawk]

Pretty interesting trade scenarios by Lowe..

Lowe: Philly's fit isn't great, but what if that doesn't matter?

Basically he is saying that the Sixers aren't trading Simmons because any deal they would accept would be way too high for him. Other than maybe Doncic for Simmons which is never going to happen.

 

[shopson67]

LOL.

Did you really just say that?

Ben Simmons is 22. You know who else couldn't shoot when they were 22?

LeBron couldn't. Jordan couldn't shoot past 18 feet.

Shame on you for comparing Simmons to Fultz. That is just ignorant. Good thing you aren't a GM.

Shame on you for comparing Simmons to Lebron or Jordan. Lebron has averaged at least 3 3pt attempts per game since his rookie year (his worst percentage year at 29%). Simmons is taking over 90% of his shots within 10 ft; Lebron's career average from that range is 48%, and topped out at 57%. That 90% is Andre Drummond range. It's great that Simmons can pass and rebound, but calling him a point GUARD is ludicrous. He shoots like an old-school center.

At least Fultz seemingly has excuses for his shooting woes.