Bill Simmons trade idea

[Taddy Mason]

I was salty I had 100 on bama. Still wonder if he's more whiteside and less embiid

 

[tlance]

Y

That's all great and all, but what do the Pelicans need? They have play makers (Jrue has a long contract, Payton will be a free agent) and PFs even without AD (Mirotic, Randle, Diallo). Where does Simmons fit? The Pelicans need scoring wings and a center if AD is going to be moved.

The Celtics are immediately the best fit, but will they want to give up the players that the Pelicans will want (and they have the picks). The Lakers have young pieces, but they most likely aren't enough in return. The Kings and Suns could make significant offers of young players. I'm not going to go through the entire league, as I'm sure there will surprise offers from unexpected teams, but there will be plenty of options.

As far as value, that rookie contract doesn't help a lot when you're trying to acquire a player in trade that costs exceedingly more. What other bad contracts does Philly offer to balance out the salaries? Cost isn't the ultimate determination of value either, especially when we're talking about a top 5 player in the league.

What do they need?

If they trade their franchise player, they need somebody who might be able to fill his shoes someday.

Forget about fit. If they trade AD it means they are starting over. Simmons would allow them to do that with a new franchise player to build around.

 

[tlance]

Yes, I am looking at it based on the now.

But, also based on where those teams are today.

Replace any of the Warriors I named with Ben and would they still be the favorites to win it all?

Replace Davis or LeBron with Simmons and those teams are lottery bound because he doesn't score enough.

Them be the facts.

The rest of the roster matters.

Now, replace Ben with Lillard.

76ers would win the East.

But the Pelicans appear lottery bound WITH Davis.

So if they have to deal him, they aren't (or shouldn't be) thinking playoffs right away.

 

[lebron23james]

Y


What do they need?

If they trade their franchise player, they need somebody who might be able to fill his shoes someday.

Forget about fit. If they trade AD it means they are starting over. Simmons would allow them to do that with a new franchise player to build around.

Do you ever shut up?

 

[shopson67]

Y


What do they need?

If they trade their franchise player, they need somebody who might be able to fill his shoes someday.

Forget about fit. If they trade AD it means they are starting over. Simmons would allow them to do that with a new franchise player to build around.

Again, you're acting as if Simmons would be the only offer out there (and as if Philly is even looking to move him). This deal makes no sense for either team, as it leaves Philly without anyone to run the offense and two bigs in an uptempo league of perimeter shots and would leave the Pelicans with nothing but PGs and PFs. If they have to move the players they already have as well to make Simmons a fit, the Pelicans are REALLY in trouble. New Orleans is not a destination city in the NBA; they aren't drawing free agents. I don't think Simmons is enough of a draw to overcome that, at least until he finds a jumper.

Square pegs and round holes.

 

[flyerhawk]

Again, you're acting as if Simmons would be the only offer out there (and as if Philly is even looking to move him). This deal makes no sense for either team, as it leaves Philly without anyone to run the offense and two bigs in an uptempo league of perimeter shots and would leave the Pelicans with nothing but PGs and PFs. If they have to move the players they already have as well to make Simmons a fit, the Pelicans are REALLY in trouble. New Orleans is not a destination city in the NBA; they aren't drawing free agents. I don't think Simmons is enough of a draw to overcome that, at least until he finds a jumper.

Square pegs and round holes.

This discussion started with various people saying that Simmons is not nearly enough to get AD. That was a false premise to begin with.

If New Orleans feels they have to move AD then their ideal trade involves getting a young potential superstar to replace him. Ben Simmons would most certainly fit that mold. And if that mean they would need to move other pieces to build a team around him, they do that. The same is true if the Mavs were willing to deal Doncic for AD.

You don't try to fill out a roster when you trade AD. You try to get a superstar in return. That either means getting a young superstar or getting a ton of lottery tickets.

 

[flyerhawk]

Do you ever shut up?

Tlance offers a lot of good basketball talk here. You mostly just troll.

 

[shopson67]

This discussion started with various people saying that Simmons is not nearly enough to get AD. That was a false premise to begin with.

If New Orleans feels they have to move AD then their ideal trade involves getting a young potential superstar to replace him. Ben Simmons would most certainly fit that mold. And if that mean they would need to move other pieces to build a team around him, they do that. The same is true if the Mavs were willing to deal Doncic for AD.

You don't try to fill out a roster when you trade AD. You try to get a superstar in return. That either means getting a young superstar or getting a ton of lottery tickets.

I disagree completely. Simmons is NOT enough to get AD. I believe the major reason that New Orleans refuses to consider dealing AD is that they know they can't possibly get equal return.

AD is top 5 in the league, the uppermost tier; Simmons is not.

 

[flyerhawk]

I disagree completely. Simmons is NOT enough to get AD. I believe the major reason that New Orleans refuses to consider dealing AD is that they know they can't possibly get equal return.

AD is top 5 in the league, the uppermost tier; Simmons is not.

No one is suggesting that Ben Simmons is a Top 5 player. He's 22 years old and in his 2nd year. Of course he isn't a top 5 player.

But the Pelicans are NEVER going to get a top 5 player in return unless it is another player on an expiring contract. Their best possible return for AD would be what I mentioned. A young potential superstar or a bag of lottery tickets.

 

[Sparhawk]

I disagree completely. Simmons is NOT enough to get AD. I believe the major reason that New Orleans refuses to consider dealing AD is that they know they can't possibly get equal return.

So, their best strategy is to sit tight, do nothing, and let him walk..........

 

[Sparhawk]

No one is suggesting that Ben Simmons is a Top 5 player. He's 22 years old and in his 3rd year.

FIFY, courtesy of the Spidah Mitchell fan club

 

[trojanfan12]

So, their best strategy is to sit tight, do nothing, and let him walk..........

No, but their strategy will likely be to make him turn down a max extension in the off-season. Teams will likely be in better position to make moves to get him in the off-season, so they may feel they can get more for him.

I disagree with the point that some have made that he won't be traded during the season. I'm not saying he will be, I think that it will depend on how badly he wants out and how aggressive he's willing to be about it.

If he tells the Pelicans that he's not re-signing with them before the season ends, then I think they may look to deal him before the trade deadline.

If he's not signing with them, they will have to rebuild, so imo, there's no point in keeping him since he's just going to hurt their draft position.

Either way, they aren't getting equal value for him no matter when they trade him because teams will know he's not re-signing with the Pels.

 

[Sparhawk]

No, but their strategy will likely be to make him turn down a max extension in the off-season. Teams will likely be in better position to make moves to get him in the off-season, so they may feel they can get more for him.

I disagree with the point that some have made that he won't be traded during the season. I'm not saying he will be, I think that it will depend on how badly he wants out and how aggressive he's willing to be about it.

If he tells the Pelicans that he's not re-signing with them before the season ends, then I think they may look to deal him before the trade deadline.

If he's not signing with them, they will have to rebuild, so imo, there's no point in keeping him since he's just going to hurt their draft position.

Either way, they aren't getting equal value for him no matter when they trade him because teams will know he's not re-signing with the Pels.

Sure, the moment AD notifies NO that he has zero intentions of signing an extension and wants to be a FA, NO has to do everything in their power to get the most value for him. Depending on injuries to other teams and what not, that could be during the season, during the off-season, or during next season. Wherever they think they will get max value.

All it takes are two teams that want him to get in a bidding war.
Equal value is a subjective term.

 

[shopson67]

So, their best strategy is to sit tight, do nothing, and let him walk..........

 

[tlance]

I disagree completely. Simmons is NOT enough to get AD. I believe the major reason that New Orleans refuses to consider dealing AD is that they know they can't possibly get equal return.

AD is top 5 in the league, the uppermost tier; Simmons is not.

I will tell you this.

If NO eventually decides that they have to trade AD, they will wish for a return package of a player like Simmons + salary filler.

And they won't get it. Because very few teams willing to enter the AD sweepstakes have young players on rookie deals with anything close to Simmons' talent level.

Maybe your view is based on wanting the Lakers to land him?

In terms of trade value,

Simmons > Ball + Ingram + Kuzma + Hart

And it isn't that close.

 

[shopson67]

I will tell you this.

If NO eventually decides that they have to trade AD, they will wish for a return package of a player like Simmons + salary filler.

And they won't get it. Because very few teams willing to enter the AD sweepstakes have young players on rookie deals with anything close to Simmons' talent level.

Maybe your view is based on wanting the Lakers to land him?

In terms of trade value,

Simmons > Ball + Ingram + Kuzma + Hart

And it isn't that close.

Again, you're assuming they'll make Simmons available, which is highly unlikely. I don't know that the Lakers have enough ammo to get a deal done regardless. Boston is hamstrung by the Kryie business, and if they make the trade after the season ends, the 2019 draft picks will already have been made, so a big value loss there. It will be interesting to see how this proceeds and if they try to get something done this season (but I doubt it).

 

[flyerhawk]

Again, you're assuming they'll make Simmons available,

Your argument was that Simmons wasn't enough to get AD. Now you are changing it to "You are assuming the Sixers would make Simmons available". The Sixers AREN'T going to make Simmons available. Not unless things change dramatically in Philly.

Right now, AD isn't on the trade block. And he may NEVER go on the trade block. But if we were to assume that they Pelicans DID put him on the market, the question is what would they want to get back in return?

If we used Bill Simons trade value list.....

Bill Simmons’s NBA Trade Value Rankings 2018-19

There are 7 other guys more valuable than Simmons from a trade perspective.

1. Giannis
2. AD
3. Steph
4. Lebron
5. Doncic
6. Embiid
7. Jokic

So using his list there are only 6 guys that would be a better trade option than Simmons for the Pels. Truth be told, I don't think the Pels would trade AD for Lebron or Steph as they are too old. And I think that Simmons has guzzled the Kool Aid a bit much on Luka and his name will drop way down the next time he updates this.

But this is what you are looking at. Any of the other guys in the top 20 are either not desirable for the Pels or there is next to no chance they could become available. Except for Ziggy, Fox and Dame.

 

[tlance]

Again, you're assuming they'll make Simmons available, which is highly unlikely. I don't know that the Lakers have enough ammo to get a deal done regardless. Boston is hamstrung by the Kryie business, and if they make the trade after the season ends, the 2019 draft picks will already have been made, so a big value loss there. It will be interesting to see how this proceeds and if they try to get something done this season (but I doubt it).

I am not assuming that at all. In fact, I have said multiple times that Simmons would not be available.

Your position is that "Simmons + salary filler is not enough to land AD"

And that is proposterous. It would be a grand slam homerun trade for the Pelicans if they could land it. They won't. The question is whether it would be good for Philly. That part is debateable and would hinge on a Davis extension.

 

[tlance]

Your argument was that Simmons wasn't enough to get AD. Now you are changing it to "You are assuming the Sixers would make Simmons available". The Sixers AREN'T going to make Simmons available. Not unless things change dramatically in Philly.

Right now, AD isn't on the trade block. And he may NEVER go on the trade block. But if we were to assume that they Pelicans DID put him on the market, the question is what would they want to get back in return?

If we used Bill Simons trade value list.....

Bill Simmons’s NBA Trade Value Rankings 2018-19

There are 7 other guys more valuable than Simmons from a trade perspective.

1. Giannis
2. AD
3. Steph
4. Lebron
5. Doncic
6. Embiid
7. Jokic

So using his list there are only 6 guys that would be a better trade option than Simmons for the Pels. Truth be told, I don't think the Pels would trade AD for Lebron or Steph as they are too old. And I think that Simmons has guzzled the Kool Aid a bit much on Luka and his name will drop way down the next time he updates this.

But this is what you are looking at. Any of the other guys in the top 20 are either not desirable for the Pels or there is next to no chance they could become available. Except for Ziggy, Fox and Dame.

Giannis is the only player on that list that definitely has more trade value than Simmons. Everyone else is debateable either due to age or contract reasons.

Curry, for example, definitely does not have more trade value. He is on a supermax. If both teams were under the cap enough to make the saley work, the team getting Simmons could use the cap savings to sign another max player. Curry is significantly better than Simmons. But he isn't more valuable because of the $30 some million difference in annual salary.

 

[lebron23james]

Tlance offers a lot of good basketball talk here. You mostly just troll.

White Knight alert