Bill Simmons trade idea

[Gman]

Agreed.

It's not so much about an actual trade, but more of a 'what would they want in return' hypothetical. As blatant homers, we all tend to overvalue our own players.

I have no problem admitting AD is better than either Simmons or Tatum...

... but teams want to put these star pieces together, not trade one for the another.

 

[tlance]

People keep bringing up the possibility of Tatum being offered...

I know we're speaking hypothetically, but I think (right or wrong) Tatum would be untouchable from the C's perspective.

Anyone else would be fair game. A package including Smart, Jaylen Brown, and multiple 1st round picks... (and any non-star player the Pelicans wanted thrown in) would lead to a quick yes from Boston.

Frankly, I think Simmons is in a similar place. I just don't see Philly moving him...

... not even for AD.

I don't think Philly should move Simmons for AD.

But Boston would be foolish to not consider trading Tatum + for AD. That is, assuming they would have a reasonable chance to resign him long term.

I have said this before, but I can't see this current core winning a ring. Add AD and you have a real shot.

 

[Gman]

I don't think Philly should move Simmons for AD.

But Boston would be foolish to not consider trading Tatum + for AD. That is, assuming they would have a reasonable chance to resign him long term.

I have said this before, but I can't see this current core winning a ring. Add AD and you have a real shot.

Boston is in a peculiar situation, I'd say.

For one thing, they can offer a very strong offer without Tatum. Maybe even the strongest offer there is... (I'm assuming here that Philly would not be willing to give up Simmons, or anything similar to that).... without adding Tatum, mind you.

But... because they have such a disgusting wealth of resources... folks just think they should give up the whole kit and kaboodle. Casual fans, the media, maybe even teams want the Celtics to give it all up.

I mean... it was just this last season and off season that folks thought the Celtics should give up "Tatum +" for Jimmy Butler. Butler's a good player... but that would have been awful.

I realize AD is on a different plane of existence... and I personally wouldn't hate such a move if they could lock up AD long term... but I also think the proposition that Boston likely has the best offer without including Tatum is a strong one.

 

[flyerhawk]

People keep bringing up the possibility of Tatum being offered...

I know we're speaking hypothetically, but I think (right or wrong) Tatum would be untouchable from the C's perspective.

Anyone else would be fair game. A package including Smart, Jaylen Brown, and multiple 1st round picks... (and any non-star player the Pelicans wanted thrown in) would lead to a quick yes from Boston.

Frankly, I think Simmons is in a similar place. I just don't see Philly moving him...

... not even for AD.

I don't think the Celtics or Sixers are making those trades. I really don't believe the Sixers would trade Simmons for AD straight up.

 

[tlance]

Boston is in a peculiar situation, I'd say.

For one thing, they can offer a very strong offer without Tatum. Maybe even the strongest offer there is... (I'm assuming here that Philly would not be willing to give up Simmons, or anything similar to that).... without adding Tatum, mind you.

But... because they have such a disgusting wealth of resources... folks just think they should give up the whole kit and kaboodle. Casual fans, the media, maybe even teams want the Celtics to give it all up.

I mean... it was just this last season and off season that folks thought the Celtics should give up "Tatum +" for Jimmy Butler. Butler's a good player... but that would have been awful.

I realize AD is on a different plane of existence... and I personally wouldn't hate such a move if they could lock up AD long term... but I also think the proposition that Boston likely has the best offer without including Tatum is a strong one.

It is a peculiar situation no doubt.

Celtics have 2 things working against them.

First, because they have so many high quality young assets, I think teams do sort of expect them to overpay. It isn't fair at all, but I do think it happens. And if the Celtics say that Tatum is untouchable, the Pelicans might just move AD elsewhere even if that offer isn't necessarily better than what the Celtics have to give.

2nd, you are quickly approaching a time frame where these "young assets" are going to need to get paid. It seems like as soon as July 1 hits and a player has less than a year remaining on their rookie deal, their trade value takes a significant hit. Terry Rozier, for example, has trade value for sure. But, because teams know that they have to give him a real contract this summer, his value is probably less than what it was at this time last year even after his awesome playoff run.

By the time NO is ready to trade AD, it will almost surely be after Rozier hits RFA and when Jaylen Brown is less than 1 year on his deal. I think Brown is a really nice young player, but I would not be nearly as excited about having him on my team at $30 million (he could easily be worth that, but it isn't a given) as I would at 6 or whatever he makes now.

In other words, yeah. I know there are some other quality assets in there and still a couple more nice picks. But you aren't going to land AD unless you are willing to give up Tatum.

 

[Gman]

It is a peculiar situation no doubt.

Celtics have 2 things working against them.

First, because they have so many high quality young assets, I think teams do sort of expect them to overpay. It isn't fair at all, but I do think it happens. And if the Celtics say that Tatum is untouchable, the Pelicans might just move AD elsewhere even if that offer isn't necessarily better than what the Celtics have to give.

2nd, you are quickly approaching a time frame where these "young assets" are going to need to get paid. It seems like as soon as July 1 hits and a player has less than a year remaining on their rookie deal, their trade value takes a significant hit. Terry Rozier, for example, has trade value for sure. But, because teams know that they have to give him a real contract this summer, his value is probably less than what it was at this time last year even after his awesome playoff run.

By the time NO is ready to trade AD, it will almost surely be after Rozier hits RFA and when Jaylen Brown is less than 1 year on his deal. I think Brown is a really nice young player, but I would not be nearly as excited about having him on my team at $30 million (he could easily be worth that, but it isn't a given) as I would at 6 or whatever he makes now.

In other words, yeah. I know there are some other quality assets in there and still a couple more nice picks. But you aren't going to land AD unless you are willing to give up Tatum.

I agree about teams "sort of expecting Boston to overpay." That is what it is. It doesn't mean Boston necessarily has to agree to overpay... but it's an issue.

That aside: I don't necessarily agree that the C's have to give up Tatum to get AD... especially if we're talking this season. If New Orleans was of a mind to trade this season... then Smart, Brown (and possibly a Rozier or whatever) and 3 1st round drafts is a decent offer. If New Orleans is dead set on Tatum, too... then I'm fully supportive of a no from Boston's end.

You talk about Boston losing value as time goes on... what about New Orleans? They're also losing from a bargaining position as time goes on... worse than Boston or any other team, IMO.

 

[tlance]

I agree about teams "sort of expecting Boston to overpay." That is what it is. It doesn't mean Boston necessarily has to agree to overpay... but it's an issue.

That aside: I don't necessarily agree that the C's have to give up Tatum to get AD... especially if we're talking this season. If New Orleans was of a mind to trade this season... then Smart, Brown (and possibly a Rozier or whatever) and 3 1st round drafts is a decent offer. If New Orleans is dead set on Tatum, too... then I'm fully supportive of a no from Boston's end.

You talk about Boston losing value as time goes on... what about New Orleans? They're also losing from a bargaining position as time goes on... worse than Boston or any other team, IMO.

You are right about all of this.

I really don't see any way NO deals AD this year though. At least not until he refuses their extension offer.

What is their offer next year? Brown + Salary filler + 3 picks?

That is a solid offer, but not an unbeatable one. Keep in mind those picks are valuable, but all project as late lottery or outside the lottery.

 

[Taddy Mason]

guess it was this thread that made me question Davis's value as a top player in this league. How the fuck is his team not in the playoff conversation? It has the talent, though I guess that includes him. Is he just putting up some Whiteside numbers? And some don't think Ben wouldn't net him? Get the fuck out of here.

 

[Gman]

You are right about all of this.

I really don't see any way NO deals AD this year though. At least not until he refuses their extension offer.

Agreed.

What is their offer next year? Brown + Salary filler + 3 picks?

That is a solid offer, but not an unbeatable one. Keep in mind those picks are valuable, but all project as late lottery or outside the lottery.

Robert Williams looks like an interesting possible trade add-in piece. A lot of raw ability there... a more athletic Capela?

Smart, Brown, Williams, picks .... ?

 

[Gman]

And some don't think Ben wouldn't net him? Get the fuck out of here.

Nah... we're right on this one.

 

[Sparhawk]

I agree about teams "sort of expecting Boston to overpay." That is what it is. It doesn't mean Boston necessarily has to agree to overpay... but it's an issue.

That aside: I don't necessarily agree that the C's have to give up Tatum to get AD... especially if we're talking this season. If New Orleans was of a mind to trade this season... then Smart, Brown (and possibly a Rozier or whatever) and 3 1st round drafts is a decent offer. If New Orleans is dead set on Tatum, too... then I'm fully supportive of a no from Boston's end.

You talk about Boston losing value as time goes on... what about New Orleans? They're also losing from a bargaining position as time goes on... worse than Boston or any other team, IMO.

Depends on which 1st round picks.
NO will have multiple suitors.
What’s the best haul they can get back? Are you talking SAC 2019? MEM?

 

[Gman]

Depends on which 1st round picks.
NO will have multiple suitors.
What’s the best haul they can get back? Are you talking SAC 2019? MEM?

For AD... if Boston is keeping Tatum... N.O.'s can have the most choicest picks.

 

[Taddy Mason]

Nah... we're right on this one.

i don't want to overvalue Ben, but when looking at it, I feel like Davis is probably a bit overhyped and that's putting it mildly. On the same thought, Ben makes players around him better. I know I'm very biased in this, but fuck Davis.

 

[Gman]

i don't want to overvalue Ben, but when looking at it, I feel like Davis is probably a bit overhyped and that's putting it mildly. On the same thought, Ben makes players around him better. I know I'm very biased in this, but fuck Davis.

Fair enough.

Simmons is a great player... (with one glaring flaw)... but still a great player.

AD, though, is out of this world.

We are comparing two extremely hot chicks here... so you're not totally crazy or anything.

But you're still wrong. IMO, of course.

 

[Mecca]

guess it was this thread that made me question Davis's value as a top player in this league. How the fuck is his team not in the playoff conversation? It has the talent, though I guess that includes him. Is he just putting up some Whiteside numbers? And some don't think Ben wouldn't net him? Get the fuck out of here.

Lmfao...

Dude, I like Ben a lot.

But, he is in the 2nd tier, not that top Superstar tier with Durant, Freak, Embiid, LeBron, Curry and Davis.

I fucking hate Harden.

But, I suppose he goes in there too.

You couldn't trade Simmons for any of those guys strait up.

* personally, I'd give you Harden *

Stop it.

Davis has had a few injury issues and his team has underachieved.

But, his numbers aren't hollow.

He lost his fucking mind at the end of last Season and they put foot to ass out West because of it.

 

[Taddy Mason]

Lmfao...

Dude, I like Ben a lot.

But, he is in the 2nd tier, not that top Superstar tier with Durant, Freak, Embiid, LeBron, Curry and Davis.

I fucking hate Harden.

But, I suppose he goes in there too.

You couldn't trade Simmons for any of those guys strait up.

* personally, I'd give you Harden *

Stop it.

Davis has had a few injury issues and his team has underachieved.

But, his numbers aren't hollow.

He lost his fucking mind at the end of last Season and they put foot to ass out West because of it.

i'm just saying, his team is under 500, lebronless lakers are shit, but respectable enough with him. maybe i've heard too much lebron hate in my years, so i'm conflating the two, lebron would not be on a team not in the playoffs provideded he was playing in the games. doesn't seem to be the case for Davis. There's more nice 5's in the league than they give credit for, Jokic just has a career high 39, getting crushed tonight, but he's a nice 5. Hell, Davis doesn't even want to be a 5.

 

[Mecca]

i'm just saying, his team is under 500, lebronless lakers are shit, but respectable enough with him. maybe i've heard too much lebron hate in my years, so i'm conflating the two, lebron would not be on a team not in the playoffs provideded he was playing in the games. doesn't seem to be the case for Davis. There's more nice 5's in the league than they give credit for, Jokic just has a career high 39, getting crushed tonight, but he's a nice 5. Hell, Davis doesn't even want to be a 5.

I understand your point and you are correct that his team's should be better.

But, seriously....

Jrue Holiday is his best teammate.

Jrue would be the 4th best player on your 6ers.

Hell, y'all the ones who sent him there....lol

I like Ben.

If you had said trade him straight up for Dame....

I would have said yes, wholeheartedly.

I guess the difference in our opinion comes from the fact that I don't penalize Davis as much as I should for team underachievement?

 

[flyerhawk]

Lmfao...

Dude, I like Ben a lot.

But, he is in the 2nd tier, not that top Superstar tier with Durant, Freak, Embiid, LeBron, Curry and Davis.

I fucking hate Harden.

But, I suppose he goes in there too.

You couldn't trade Simmons for any of those guys strait up.

* personally, I'd give you Harden *

Stop it.

Davis has had a few injury issues and his team has underachieved.

But, his numbers aren't hollow.

He lost his fucking mind at the end of last Season and they put foot to ass out West because of it.

You are looking at the players purely on their current ability.

The only player you listed that I would say are clearly untouchable are Curry and Freak. The Warriors probably wouldn't trade Durant for Simmons right now because they are going for a title but they might because Durant is a FA next year and everything points to him leaving. Simmons would immediately revamp a roster that is showing its age. We've already discussed AD.

Simmons isn't at the same level as those guys on the court. But he's much younger and cost controlled. Those are big deals.

 

[Taddy Mason]

I understand your point and you are correct that his team's should be better.

But, seriously....

Jrue Holiday is his best teammate.

Jrue would be the 4th best player on your 6ers.

Hell, y'all the ones who sent him there....lol

I like Ben.

If you had said trade him straight up for Dame....

I would have said yes, wholeheartedly.

I guess the difference in our opinion comes from the fact that I don't penalize Davis as much as I should for team underachievement?

Jrue would be fourth best based on what they have now. That being said, it goes Embiid, Simmoons, Butler. For all I know Jrue might be better once I get a better look at him. We did have Jrue and he was nice, proprs to the pelicans for letting him support his wife during her surgery and recovery period,i'd hope the sixers would do the same, it's a sad news good news story, i'll eat them up every day

what am I talking about, I ask that as I'm sure I responded to this post before. now that i look at it i see it's a dig at Jrue, I'll keep my words to myself, but don't talk sht about Jrue.

 

[Taddy Mason]

I have no problem admitting AD is better than either Simmons or Tatum...

... but teams want to put these star pieces together, not trade one for the another.

I'd have no problem saying that as well. it upsets me knowing good folk put down money thinking bama would win (who the fuck wouldn't)

yeah, it's been a shitty night for me... would still love to give cross opinions, was weird how weird how quickly my misspelled word came to haunt me. and that would make sense if i provided it any context it still wouldn't but it was another post in ny window for whatever reason... the fact i could have thrown a murder in here is a different story (God? bless)