Been Car Shopping What A Nightmare

[Eddie_Shack]

Actually the Ford Fusion was 2nd palce for resale ( behind the Accord) last year and with sticker prices that start at 3-4K lower than the Accord for comparable equipment the Fusion is a better overall value, especially given the fact that the Fusion is currently offering 0% interest. Ford has actually become number 3 for overall resale for combined averages of all models as well. The Accord is sweet and you cant go wrong with it but if you are buying it based off the value then you would be incorrect in this instance.

rmilia, after all my talk I am finally going to start shopping for my new car. What are your secrets so I can bilk the sales sheisters out of a bunch of money on my next car? I'm worried my usual technique of threatening their kneecaps with a pipe wrench won't work.

 

[MrMoJoRisin63]

Actually the Ford Fusion was 2nd palce for resale ( behind the Accord) last year and with sticker prices that start at 3-4K lower than the Accord for comparable equipment the Fusion is a better overall value, especially given the fact that the Fusion is currently offering 0% interest. Ford has actually become number 3 for overall resale for combined averages of all models as well. The Accord is sweet and you cant go wrong with it but if you are buying it based off the value then you would be incorrect in this instance.

I owned a Ford Taurus of all the cars I ever owned a few that was far and away the worst of them Constant transmission issues, motor mounts were always bad had electrical issue. I don't care what the resale numbers are I have never had a worse experience with a car. Complete Trash in my experience. Not sure what you mean by value. I am buying it because it rode very well, has a lot of the features I want, and I'll probably have it in fifteen years with little maint put into it. I want to drive the Avalon one more time just to make sure.

 

[MrMoJoRisin63]

rmilia, after all my talk I am finally going to start shopping for my new car. What are your secrets so I can bilk the sales sheisters out of a bunch of money on my next car? I'm worried my usual technique of threatening their kneecaps with a pipe wrench won't work.

Not sure this would work for you but my credit union can get me the Accord Touring for $5053 under MSRP

 

[Eddie_Shack]

Not sure this would work for you but my credit union can get me the Accord Touring for $5053 under MSRP

How does that work? Does your credit union own a dealership or something? I was planning on using mine for the car loan, I can get a pretty good rate through them, but how can they get you a deal on a car?

 

[MrMoJoRisin63]

How does that work? Does your credit union own a dealership or something? I was planning on using mine for the car loan, I can get a pretty good rate through them, but how can they get you a deal on a car?

My Credit Union has a buying service and a lot of members mostly Military and Government employee's. I just key in the car and model I want it shows price I apply for loan and pick the car up. It shows what current MSRP is, what others have payed and what they can get it for. It's not always 5k most cases it's 2k to 3k. They handle it all for me. I guess they have so much buying power they work out some deal with dealerships around the country.\

Ask your credit union if they have a buying service.

 

[SEC Official]

I pay cash and buy used cars from eBay and Craigslist. You'll never convince me that buying a new car is a good investment. Sorry but that's utter nonsense.

Used cars these days, especially certified with 30-40k on them are a better deal.. and if you still want to spend $35k for example, you can step up to a nicer car than an Accord.

Just my opinion...

When we left S.Florida 8 years ago, I was driving an M5 and my wife had a 540i... that was about $160k worth of cars we bought new... just fucking STUPID. That was about 60% of my annual income those days.

Today, in NW Arkansas there is ZERO peer pressure like Boca Raton had... and my wife drives a 2006 Honda Odyssey and I drive a 2010 Tundra Limited... both paid for. They are about 20% of my annual income.

When I was young, I overspent on cars that I couldn't afford.

Now that I am older and have enough money to buy pretty much anything I want, I only buy used and pay cash... put that cash towards a future car so you NEVER have to finance.

Just my 2 cents...

Read the Millionare Next Door if you get a chance...most people with WEALTH buy USED and buy inexpensive cars. People with high INCOME but no WEALTH by over their means... and end up living month to month most of their lives.

 

[SEC Official]

I don't see anything wrong with buying new... I was just raised in a hard core, extremist fundamentalist Dutch family, so the idea that the difference between a 2014 with 0 miles on it and no owners, and a 2014 with 100 miles on it and one owners is in the thousands... well, I just can't stomach that. I've bought new before, I liked it, but my last car I bought was two years old, had 33K on it, and was a good ten grand cheaper than it was new. I won't bag on anyone for buying new, but I won't do it again. Remember that truck thread I posted? The time is nigh... it's coming... soon, I will be a real Murrican. It will be used, though.

I will... it is a simple finance question. See people say "what is the big deal... $10k but I get this sweet car that is only slightly better looking and smells new..."

But using the time value of money, what is that $10k worth in 30 years using the avg. rate of return ~8.5%?

That is $136k 30 years from today. This doesn't even include the lost gains from having a car payment and paying interest because you get hung up having to buy new and have car payments the rest of your life...

So, is buying new vs. used worth $136-180k? Because that is what it is really costing you every time you spent that extra $10k...

If you buy 10 cars over your life... that is about $1.3 to $1.8MM you walk away from in 30 years just because you had to have new.

Not ranting.. just trying to help the younger folks learn from my experience and avoid costly mistakes...

This car example is only the start... this attitude of overspending can make a difference between retiring on your timeline, even early at 48 or 50 years old... or having to work until you are 70 just because you had to have new.

So, are new cars vs. used worth working for YEARS or DECADES down the road? My answer.. hell no.

 

[MrMoJoRisin63]

Used cars these days, especially certified with 30-40k on them are a better deal.. and if you still want to spend $35k for example, you can step up to a nicer car than an Accord.

Just my opinion...

When we left S.Florida 8 years ago, I was driving an M5 and my wife had a 540i... that was about $160k worth of cars we bought new... just fucking STUPID. That was about 60% of my annual income those days.

Today, in NW Arkansas there is ZERO peer pressure like Boca Raton had... and my wife drives a 2006 Honda Odyssey and I drive a 2010 Tundra Limited... both paid for. They are about 20% of my annual income.

When I was young, I overspent on cars that I couldn't afford.

Now that I am older and have enough money to buy pretty much anything I want, I only buy used and pay cash... put that cash towards a future car so you NEVER have to finance.

Just my 2 cents...

Read the Millionare Next Door if you get a chance...most people with WEALTH buy USED and buy inexpensive cars. People with high INCOME but no WEALTH by over their means... and end up living month to month most of their lives.

So I can step up to say a BWM for 30 to 40 K pay a higher interest rate bu 3 to 4 % have higher repair cost when the arise and get a car with 30 to 40 thousand miles on it. Just doesn't seem better to me.

 

[rmilia1]

rmilia, after all my talk I am finally going to start shopping for my new car. What are your secrets so I can bilk the sales sheisters out of a bunch of money on my next car? I'm worried my usual technique of threatening their kneecaps with a pipe wrench won't work.

Honestly you can find invoice on just about any car on the internet and every single new car has whats called "holdback" which is roughly 3% of the invoice cost that the dealer gets to supprt advertising , facilities etc. If you just find out what kind of car you want I can tell you the rock bottom pricing on it by looking up all that shit plus looking to see if the manufacturer is offering any dealer cash. Contact your credit union to see if they ahve any buying programs is a good idea but not all manufacturers are always offering those kinds of programs and even fewer credit unions supply them.

 

[outofyourmind]

When my wife worked at Hertz, she got the 'employee A plan' discount on any new ford.
It was 5% behind invoice, plus any customer rebate or incentive.
The last pickup I bought was an F-150, new in 2006 for $15,600.

And even with that, they were making boatloads of money. Don't ever think they lose money on any deal.

 

[rmilia1]

When my wife worked at Hertz, she got the 'employee A plan' discount on any new ford.
It was 5% behind invoice, plus any customer rebate or incentive.
The last pickup I bought was an F-150, new in 2006 for $15,600.

And even with that, they were making boatloads of money. Don't ever think they lose money on any deal.

LOL, we lose money all the time on deals man. I always get a kick out of people that think like you. I guess it makes sense because why would anyone sell something to lose money right?? The reality is that sales is just a vehicle to bring people in for service, parts. Thats where the real money is at a dealership. We sell 200 cars a month and there is months that we make 200K on those cars and there have been months we lose 50K to sell 200 cars but service and parts makes 5-600K a month because people will negotiate for 3 hours over 10 dollars a month in payment but not bat an eye when they get charged 90 dollars per hour to work on their car after they buy it. Its insane.

 

[MrMoJoRisin63]

LOL, we lose money all the time on deals man. I always get a kick out of people that think like you. I guess it makes sense because why would anyone sell something to lose money right?? The reality is that sales is just a vehicle to bring people in for service, parts. Thats where the real money is at a dealership. We sell 200 cars a month and there is months that we make 200K on those cars and there have been months we lose 50K to sell 200 cars but service and parts makes 5-600K a month because people will negotiate for 3 hours over 10 dollars a month in payment but not bat an eye when they get charged 90 dollars per hour to work on their car after they buy it. Its insane.

Exactly.... And mainly why I do not use dealerships. If it's warranty then sure because I am paying anything after warranty got me a mechanic that does work on the side.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

Honestly you can find invoice on just about any car on the internet and every single new car has whats called "holdback" which is roughly 3% of the invoice cost that the dealer gets to supprt advertising , facilities etc. If you just find out what kind of car you want I can tell you the rock bottom pricing on it by looking up all that shit plus looking to see if the manufacturer is offering any dealer cash. Contact your credit union to see if they ahve any buying programs is a good idea but not all manufacturers are always offering those kinds of programs and even fewer credit unions supply them.

I'm buying used, baby... I will dig up my old thread and post some trucks I am looking at.

 

[outofyourmind]

LOL, we lose money all the time on deals man. I always get a kick out of people that think like you. I guess it makes sense because why would anyone sell something to lose money right?? The reality is that sales is just a vehicle to bring people in for service, parts. Thats where the real money is at a dealership. We sell 200 cars a month and there is months that we make 200K on those cars and there have been months we lose 50K to sell 200 cars but service and parts makes 5-600K a month because people will negotiate for 3 hours over 10 dollars a month in payment but not bat an eye when they get charged 90 dollars per hour to work on their car after they buy it. Its insane.

That's what they want you to think.
Dealers make money from the factory in ways that you'll never see or know about.
They always say they don't make money so they can pay the salesmen on a mini deal.
What kind of 'pack' does your dealer work on. I bet they tell you its for advertising and make ready and such.

 

[SEC Official]

So I can step up to say a BWM for 30 to 40 K pay a higher interest rate bu 3 to 4 % have higher repair cost when the arise and get a car with 30 to 40 thousand miles on it. Just doesn't seem better to me.

No, my point is your should step DOWN to a car you can pay for with cash... and if you can afford 35k... then save 10k by buying a used Accord that is 2 years old with 30-35k miles.

Also, BMW as some of the most expensive cars for maintenance.... along with Mercedes. I have owned a few brand news ones and I will never buy one with my own money.

Now, if you are like me and have a company paying for your cars... or you have your own company and can expense them reducing the effective cost by 30%... then that changes things entirely.

 

[SEC Official]

That's what they want you to think.
Dealers make money from the factory in ways that you'll never see or know about.
They always say they don't make money so they can pay the salesmen on a mini deal.
What kind of 'pack' does your dealer work on. I bet they tell you its for advertising and make ready and such.

True, I am friends with someone in S. Florida who owns one of the largest car dealers volume wise in the world. He told me the real kick-backs from the company happen behind the scenes and even the floor managers don't know about it... these are above and beyond the standard rebates and things the front end sees.

He told me they will sometimes get 30% to move old inventory on the backside and the company takes the hit... not he dealer.

Dealers rarely if ever lose money once you get to the dealers EBITDA line... they just act like you are killing them. Breaking even for a dealer is often considered "losing money" if you based it on the invoice they sales managers see.

 

[SEC Official]

I'm buying used, baby... I will dig up my old thread and post some trucks I am looking at.

Trucks are some of the best deals out there.. nice engines... you can find ones where you aren't paying for a bunch of useless shit... and they are very utilitarian. I moved from a BMW M5 and a Yukon... to a Toyota Tundra that I have been driving for 3 years with the full rear cab... and short bed.. and I love it.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

Trucks are some of the best deals out there.. nice engines... you can find ones where you aren't paying for a bunch of useless shit... and they are very utilitarian. I moved from a BMW M5 and a Yukon... to a Toyota Tundra that I have been driving for 3 years with the full rear cab... and short bed.. and I love it.

I have been scouring the local ads for a while, it's amazing some of the variance in prices. You can see a 2005 Silverado with 110,000 miles on it for $16,500 one minute, and then a 2008 with 75,000 for a grand more. I'm only looking at V8's with four wheel drive, so it's not like I'm comparing a RWD WT to a 2500 or something. I don't give two shits about leather, OnStar, DVD, power seats, any of that shit. That's all just extra money to me... I got a guy at work trying soooo hard to convince me to buy a used Audi or BMW... of course, every week he's bitching about how you need a degree in engineering just to change an air filter on a BMW. Fuck that, I'm not hauling a boat trailer down a two track and throwing dead animals in the trunk of a fucking BMW.

I'm pretty confident I can find something in good shape between 2007-2010, with 50k-75k, for between $16,000-18,000. I just have to be patient, and when the right deal comes in I'll swoop in and grab it. I'm so sick of my car.

 

[geneh_33]

I used to sell cars for a dealer and I also used to be a part owner in used car sales.

The car business has more liars, cheats and people who will eat you alive than Al Qaeda ever thought about having. I had to get out of it because I'm not like that and you can't make a living unless you are willing to rip people off all day long, every day.

People in the car business can lie so well that they even fool themselves into believing their BS.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

I used to sell cars for a dealer and I also used to be a part owner in used car sales.

The car business has more liars, cheats and people who will eat you alive than Al Qaeda ever thought about having. I had to get out of it because I'm not like that and you can't make a living unless you are willing to rip people off all day long, every day.

People in the car business can lie so well that they even fool themselves into believing their BS.

We should ban rmilia.