Analyzing Jack Z's trades

[broncosmitty]

Talking about a Mariners/Tigers trade, on a Mariners GM trade analysis thread is trolling? I always liked Furbush, a decent lefty always has value. As do first round picks from just three years ago. The M's saved a lot of money along the way as well. And I spent five years on CBS, never encountered this other Tigers fan you're paranoid about.

 

[unlvmariners]

Talking about a Mariners/Tigers trade, on a Mariners GM trade analysis thread is trolling? I always liked Furbush, a decent lefty always has value. As do first round picks from just three years ago. The M's saved a lot of money along the way as well. And I spent five years on CBS, never encountered this other Tigers fan you're paranoid about.

I am a former cbs guy also, never seen him... I think he is talking about someone from espn. It sounds like the trolling on espn was pretty bad.

 

[cezero]

Talking about a Mariners/Tigers trade, on a Mariners GM trade analysis thread is trolling? I always liked Furbush, a decent lefty always has value. As do first round picks from just three years ago. The M's saved a lot of money along the way as well. And I spent five years on CBS, never encountered this other Tigers fan you're paranoid about.

Sure.

I'm actually pretty fond of the Tigers, and wouldn't mind them or a couple of other AL Central teams winning the whole BOW this year.

But, I'll never understand why fans of excellent teams troll bad teams' message boards. Enjoy, though.

 

[broncosmitty]

I never posted on espn, just use that site for fantasy. Came over here after moping for a week when CBS shut down. I don't want to foul up your thread over here. Not my intent at all. I didn't stop in to troll, just to talk Furbush/Fister(Greatest trade headline in recent memory) and see what you guys thought. I wish Jeremy Bonderman getting cut loose by you guys, and coming back to us got me excited. I always liked the guy. But I'm not too confident he'll ever stick in the Bigs again.

 

[broncosmitty]

Sure.

I'm actually pretty fond of the Tigers, and wouldn't mind them or a couple of other AL Central teams winning the whole BOW this year.

But, I'll never understand why fans of excellent teams troll bad teams' message boards. Enjoy, though.

I think you may have a misunderstanding of the term "trolling". I'm not looking to rile anyone up or praise Dombrowski for jipping Jack Z. I think Jack went long term, and we got a third starter. It's not like Fister is going to win a Cy Young. And Furbush would be, at worst, our third best reliever. Jose Valverde was the closer for a month for crying out loud. Hence my curiosity on Ruffin. If it helps any I'd rather have Iwakuma than Scherzer.

 

[cezero]

I never posted on espn, just use that site for fantasy. Came over here after moping for a week when CBS shut down. I don't want to foul up your thread over here. Not my intent at all. I didn't stop in to troll, just to talk Furbush/Fister(Greatest trade headline in recent memory) and see what you guys thought. I wish Jeremy Bonderman getting cut loose by you guys, and coming back to us got me excited. I always liked the guy. But I'm not too confident he'll ever stick in the Bigs again.

Hmmmm...let me see.

When the dust settled, you got a solid starter in Fister

....and we got Charlie Fucking Furbush.

I wonder if Mariners fans are happy with this trade? Golly gee willikers, it's a real head scratcher!

Since you seem to know something about baseball, that makes you a troll for polluting this thread with talk about it.

Furbush is not anywhere near being good, and outfielder Wells' best moment this year was pitching a relief inning for the White Sox a couple of week back after being DFA'd by the Mariners and bouncing from the Oakland to Chicago.

You can pretend to be something other than a troll for all of the good it will do you, though.

 

[cezero]

I think you may have a misunderstanding of the term "trolling". I'm not looking to rile anyone up or praise Dombrowski for jipping Jack Z. I think Jack went long term, and we got a third starter. It's not like Fister is going to win a Cy Young. And Furbush would be, at worst, our third best reliever. Jose Valverde was the closer for a month for crying out loud. Hence my curiosity on Ruffin. If it helps any I'd rather have Iwakuma than Scherzer.

Enjoy your trolling.

Why a Tigers fan would feel the need is beyond me, like I said.

 

[dude82]

I don't know how this got to this point, but it's ridiculous. The guy asked a question. I think being at ESPN for so long and dealing with people whose sole interest in being there was to incite flame wars has some people paranoid. Asking a question is not trolling. The Fister trade is obviously a sore subject with M's fans, but not every question or comment about it is an attempt to troll or to rub it in. The ESPN board will cease to exist in an hour and a half, assuming it wasn't shut down on Eastern Daylight Time. Let's try to put all the crap we had to deal with there behind us and not accuse people of trolling so often that we become the trolls. Let's move on.

 

[cezero]

....but not every question or comment about it is an attempt to troll or to rub it in.

You're right. There have been plenty of fans on here even in my short time who have come from other teams for some discussion, and have been almost uniformly very cool. So yes, not every question or comment is an attempt to troll or rub it in.

It's very obvious when people do, though.

Asking if we're happy having Furbush in exchange for Fister is about as obvious as it gets. It's one of the worst trades for the M's in the past decade, and that's really saying something.

 

[cezero]

Anyway, to keep this on track, I'll just put the troll on my ignore list.

Back on topic, I'm really torn about some of the trade prospects the M's might go with. I think the big ones will be Perez and Morales. If we had a competent GM who had proven himself capable of making decent trades, I might be more gung ho with parting with them.

We'll see.

 

[broncosmitty]

You are entitled to your opinion zero, but I don't think it's quite as bad as you see it. Ruffin definitely has value. Maybe not as much to you at the moment, (You have two top flight young aces) but when you are rooting for a team whos bullpen is the third worst statisticly (which the Tigers are) top pick relievers(currently former reliever) would be nice to have laying around. But in all honesty, I find it insulting to be called a troll for taking part in a baseball conversation which I have interest in. I don't think the M's suck, or are without options going forward. Franklin, Seager and company have bright futures. And if I were to comment on your ".500" thread I'd have to ask how many times you play the 'Stros and if you have an East Coast trip before I could answer. It's not like you're far off from competing. And you don't have bad contracts to deal with like the Angels. I'll step away and leave your board without pissing you off anymore than I already have. So long as you can hold off from calling me a troll or accusing me of being some other id. Otherwise I might ask questions about Raul Ibanez, Tom Willhelmson and Brendon Ryan.

 

[broncosmitty]

Anyway, to keep this on track, I'll just put the troll on my ignore list.

Back on topic, I'm really torn about some of the trade prospects the M's might go with. I think the big ones will be Perez and Morales. If we had a competent GM who had proven himself capable of making decent trades, I might be more gung ho with parting with them.

We'll see.

Wow, you're one of THOSE guys. I see now. Sorry unlv, dude and other rational Ms fans.

 

[cezero]

mikenbig showing his true colors now

that took a whole hour

thanks

 

[cezero]

6) Trading Doug Fister for charlie Furbish, Casper Wells, Fransico Martinez and Chance Ruffin
- Easily one of the worst moves in the Jack Z regime. Fister has blossomed in Detroit and has become one of the better pitchers in the AL while Casper Wells and Fransisco Martinez are no longer even on the team. Furbish is a solid reliever but Ruffin who was thought to have potential now looks like a triple a fill in.

Call me crazy, but I consider this excerpt from the opening post of this thread to be a very fair and accurate description of the Fister trade for the M's. It was really bad.

Why would a Tigers fan come on here and ask what we think of it without even bothering to respond to the opening post? Answer: trolls don't bother with that.

The guy is heaping praise on Ruffin and Furbush for goodness sake. That's a red alert, even if it's a Tigers fan who doesn't like their bullpen right now. Do you really think he would be in favor of trading back Fister if we gave them Ruffin and Furbush in return? We'd be all over that. Tigers fans would not.

 

[Logicallylethal]

Haha didn't fister go like 8-1 with a 1.70 some era in 2011 after being traded to the Tigers? That alone trumps Furbush's entire career lol

I don't think broncosmitty is a troll but his opinions on the trade are far from the norm. I think the general consensus with any normal functioning baseball fan is that the Tigers absolutely won that deal. To mariner fans the Fister trade being a bad trade is as widely accepted as the sky being blue. So if tomorrow morning someone woke up and told you with a serious face that the sky wasn't blue...you would probably accuse them of trolling too.

 

[broncosmitty]

Ohhhh, I think we got the better end for sure. I just don't think you guys got nothing in return. It's not like you released Martinez, he was dealt back.

 

[blstoker]

Mariners fans seem to have a preconcieved notion about this trade, to the point that they cannot seem to see anything about this trade unless it's negative.

In the last year and a half Furbush has a lower ERA (3.09 to 3.69), a lower WHIP (1.039 to 1.217), a higher SO/9 (11.4 to 7.3), a lower H/9 (5.8 to 9.1) and a lower HR/9 (0.7 to 0.8) than Fister. Yes, Furbush is a relief pitcher (90 appearances in that time) and has been one of the most important parts of our bullpen during that time.

It wasn't a perfect trade, but come on, the Mariners didn't come out with nothing.

 

[cezero]

Mariners fans seem to have a preconcieved notion about this trade, to the point that they cannot seem to see anything about this trade unless it's negative.

In the last year and a half Furbush has a lower ERA (3.09 to 3.69), a lower WHIP (1.039 to 1.217), a higher SO/9 (11.4 to 7.3), a lower H/9 (5.8 to 9.1) and a lower HR/9 (0.7 to 0.8) than Fister. Yes, Furbush is a relief pitcher (90 appearances in that time) and has been one of the most important parts of our bullpen during that time.

It wasn't a perfect trade, but come on, the Mariners didn't come out with nothing.

LOL

Z couldn't have said it better.

 

[cezero]

...To mariner fans the Fister trade being a bad trade is as widely accepted as the sky being blue...

Not just Mariners fans.

Anybody who understands baseball and has the faculty of reason.

Anybody who tries saying Furbush and Ruffin were worth anything near Fister is just fucking stupid.

The Mariners got worked over, and talking it up any other way is indicative of a troll or a know-nothing.

I don't blame the Tigers FO at all. These things happen, especially when you have somebody like Z making trades....all you have to do is look at his trading record. It's not pretty. The jury's out on whether or not his farm rebuild is going to yield anything.

 

[wazzu31]

Mariners fans seem to have a preconcieved notion about this trade, to the point that they cannot seem to see anything about this trade unless it's negative.

In the last year and a half Furbush has a lower ERA (3.09 to 3.69), a lower WHIP (1.039 to 1.217), a higher SO/9 (11.4 to 7.3), a lower H/9 (5.8 to 9.1) and a lower HR/9 (0.7 to 0.8) than Fister. Yes, Furbush is a relief pitcher (90 appearances in that time) and has been one of the most important parts of our bullpen during that time.

It wasn't a perfect trade, but come on, the Mariners didn't come out with nothing.

The trade should've got everyone in position of power fired on the spot, Jack for doing it, Howard and Chuck for allowing it to happen, any scout who was in Jack's ear saying ya, these guys have potential enough to justify it.

Fister hasn't "blossomed in Detroit" He was fucking blossoming and arguably the Mariners best pitcher over Felix. Not even hindsight, looking strictly at the time what the hell was he thinking? Fister was under team control for a minimum of 4 years. There was not one positive aspect about that trade nor was there anything down the road, unless god reached down and turned Wells and Martinez into all star caliber players, that could made it even a compatible trade.

I'm happy that Furbush went from a horrible reliever to an average reliever, but to say anything positive about that trade means you are Jack Z or someone in the Mariners organization trying to save face.