ALL THINGS SUH

[gvsulaker82]

Suh is not worth putting this team in worse financial shape. He's good but his numbers are lower than Atkins.

Hes great not just good and will be elite the next ten years. As fans we dream of landing a player of his caliber. Should we also trade stafford for picks, because lets be honest he hasnt did near the same as suh but yet you would want the lions to pay him right?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I googled it b/c I was interested. Here is the link for others:

Hall of Fame CB Rod Woodson mentoring Lions' Darius Slay through growing pains | MLive.com

This was a very good article with a lot of insight as to Slay's college years and his progression going forward.

Yeah -- I was really excited when I saw that Woodson had taken him under his wing and giving him invaluable insight at how to play the position.

Slay had a really rough start, as most CBs do in the NFL as rookies, but he had some solid games toward the end of the year and seems like he is really willing to put in the time and energy to get himself to the next level as a CB.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Well thats because you are under the impression that the lions should only be drafting more and more wide receivers and ignoring the defense. Players as good as suh come along never. Why trade him for draft picks when you already struck gold drafting him. Whats the point of trading him in hopes you draft some players near as good as him (they wont). Your idea reminds me of teams like the royals in baseball. Draft well, develop the player to be one of the leagues best then trade hi. For more picks all the while never being a great team.

I can say I am not in the boat for drafting more and more offense. I'd love to see the Lions upgrade even more defensively and find complements for Calvin Johnson in the middle rounds.

That being said -- I think the part many are missing on the Lions board is -- Suh was already the highest paid DT in the NFL with his rookie contract (this past year, it was either him or McCoy). The 3rd highest paid DT in the NFL in 2013 was Ngata from Baltimore at 8.5 million a year.

Suh has been unbelievable for Detroit, but where do you start when trying to re-sign him? Geno Atkins will be the highest paid DT at 11 million after Suh. Are the Lions going to offer Suh less than what they gave him for his rookie contract, which was 12 million a year? Do they give him a raise and pay him more than players like Darrell Revis or Jared Allen?

If re-signing Suh means we have to use lesser players at multiple positions, thus weakening the defense as a whole -- Is it worth breaking the bank to sign him? As I said -- I would absolutely HATE to lose him, as I'm sure the Yankees hated losing Robinson Cano and the Red Sox hated losing Jacoby Elsbury.

If Suh said he'd take the same contract he signed as a rookie -- I'd be all for it. My guess is he will try to get in the 15-16 million a year for his deal and personally, I just don't think a DT is worth that kind of money.

 

[themuzzer]

All teams go through this.

The Saints are basicly blowing up their defense with caps hits......

Saints part ways with Will Smith, Jabari Greer, Roman Harper, Vilma - CBSSports.com

Eventually we will have a league paying for young talent at the cheapest price, (that's the goal) but still managing to win SB's

Seattle did it. The blue print is there. Cheap young talent and the days of paying overpriced talent is coming to a end. Free Agents are for clubs that continue to think they have to spend to win or keep butts in seats.

Small ball is coming to the NFL, Think KC Royals, Devil Rays, or Athletics of baseball.......

Time to blow up the pay roll on this team.....Let Suh walk, Let them go, hire a coaching staff that motivates young kids with cheap salaries......

Suh won't be motivated once he gets his paycheck. Most young arn't.

Suh is a freak but not worth that kind of money. No Player Is......Build your roster around strong coaching that influence young mens minds.....

It's like me giving TP a winning lottery ticket and to think he would stop smoking dope....That won't happen, he will just have more money to smoke the finest dope....That won't improve the team.

 

[broncosmitty]

That's one crazy way of looking at it. (KC, Tampa and Oakland haven't combined to win a WS since The Bash Brothers.). Somebody get Michael Lewis on the phone.

 

[themuzzer]

Look at it through the sunglasses of a Cap.......It's works....MLB doesn't have one and teams blow up because of things like Cano (SUH) were going to blow up and everyone knows it's coming except for the cornbread and kool-aid guys........

Sorry, that's being a realist.

 

[broncosmitty]

You're not being a realist. You're talkin out your ass. Why would teams copy the style of KC, Oakland and Tampa? It doesn't work. It's not even real. I understand some economic writer fooled a great deal of America into thinking Michael Ohers illiterate ass was worth a first round pick and that Oakland was competive because Scott Hatteburg saw a lot of pitches for peanuts. The foolery doesn't need to be perpetuated. (Baltimore didn't win the SB last year by letting HOF defenders walk.)

 

[themuzzer]

I disagree, Tampa and Oakland have teams that contend all the time and do it with half the budget, where there is no budget.......Having the Lions try to compete with 3 guys taking all the budget will backfire in a huge way.......It's still a team sport in the NFL and the Lions can't afford what there paying 3 guys and be successful....

In the MLB you can afford to pay the highest price guy at every posistion if the owners wants too.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Maybe Dr. Evil can fill us in on the consequences of re-signing Suh long term.

You were correct in one of your earlier posts that it would cost us about $19.6m to trade him. So resigning him to a new contract is a more attractive option.

You can thank Millenhew for the fact that before you start counting ANY of the money from that new contract it's already a $9.8m cap hit. What the Lions will do is work that contract in their typical fashion by structuring it such that the cap hit in the first year will be very little since it has to be added to the $9.8m dead hit.

So here you go as how they will do it. Suh signs a 5 year, $60m deal, with $20m guaranteed, and an $18m signing bonus (every one of those are better than the Atkins contract).

The signing bonus is amortized over the 5 yr length of the contract, so it applies a $3.6m cap hit each year. The Lions are famous for simply using a ridiculously low first year salary. So you pay him only a $2m salary. So his cap hit is $2m (salary) + $3.6m (signing bonus) + $9.8m (carry forward dead $) for a total cap hit of $15.4m. The Lions save $7m towards 2014 cap.

That $15.4m cap hit is likely the smallest that he will carry over the years of the new contract. Atkins cap numbers never even get close to that. Restructured deals are the reason we are in cap hell every year, not the outrageous rookie deals of years past.

 

[broncosmitty]

What do those teams always contend for muzz? KC hasn't made a post season since 1985. Oakland has won one playoff series in 23 years I believe. (2006, before theylost to Detroit, who pays people worth paying.)Even with BALCO, Tejada, Giambi and other expensive commodities. Tampa has won two playoff series in their entire franchises history. (Then lost to a team that pays people worth paying)Big freakin' whoop. Talent that is coached well wins. Inferior talent losses no matter how well it's coached.

 

[lionstop1]

Gvsu,

Dude, I never ever said ignore the defense. I said this: Draft Watkins in the first round because he might be the best player in thedraft and the Lions recieving unit sucks. OR, draft a CB if if one is rated high enough to go at 10. AND, I said i would like the team to draft offense first and the rest defense.That's what I said.

Sorry that I'm not on the Barr and Mack bandwagon like most of you. I do understand why you guys like them though. I'm not all happy-go-lucky about Suh either-to me, he disappears too often and is all overly reckless. This team can win without him, but they can't without Megatron.

 

[lionstop1]

You guys are ridiculous to even be happy about resigning this dude and having Jay Z running the show. These dudes are going to cripple the team even more.

 

[RobBase]

You guys are ridiculous to even be happy about resigning this dude and having Jay Z running the show. These dudes are going to cripple the team even more.

 

[lionstop1]

Go ahead and bash Stafford all you want but it doesn't matter. I'd be more willing to pay a QB over a DT any day. What exactly has Suh done that Stafford hasn't? Pro Bowl? Has Suh broken any records? What are we comparing here?

 

[RobBase]

Nothing. It's not up to us. Suh is going to get re-signed and he'll be the highest paid defensive player in the NFL when he does. Deal with it. Some of us are happy about it.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

I expected someone else would eventually bring up the quickest and easiest way to solve the cap problem. It isn't really all that hard. It may not be immediately popular but I assure you, it will completely resolve the issue in one season.

The simple answer is you trade Suh. That's right, there is your almost immediate fix.

How you might ask when he carries $19.5m in dead money? Well, start by asking what you would trade him for? Draft picks right, and hopefully a few of them. Let's not get carried away by putting a homer value on him but he easily gets you a first this year year and a second rounder next year with condititional options to make that a first as well.

Among many others, Miami might be a good partner, they pick 19th. The cap hit for the 19th pick in last years draft was just over $1.5m. The dead money hit plus that cost would be $21m. Believe it or not that is still $1.4m less than Suh's current cap hit. Draft another DT there if you want even, it doesn't really matter. The point is our cap situation isn't negatively impacted for this season.

But think about the 2015 season and the cap space you would then have. $19.5m that wasn't actually spent on player contracts because it was dead money now comes back to life for the Lions to spend. You also have at least another second round pick and plenty of $ you could spend in free agency. Any way you slice it the Lions would not have a salary cap problem.

Bear in mind that I am not necessarily advocating this but it is a possible solution that absolutely would work.

 

[RobBase]

Not happening. May as well get back to talking about the Lions drafting Sammy Watkins at least that has a 1% chance of happening.

 

[lionstop1]

I know that Rob Base and continue to be happy about it, but I don't need this guy telling me what I said and making it sound as if it doesn't make sense. We all have our own opinions and who cares about whay they are.

 

[RobBase]

I know that Rob Base and continue to be happy about it, but I don't need this guy telling me what I said and making it sound as if it doesn't make sense. We all have our own opinions and who cares about whay they are.

I'm just saying that opening up a big debate about Stafford vs. Suh is pointless. Some things just are. Like Stafford being the pick in 2010. Argued about that one for 6 months. Suh re-signing for top money is gonna happen no matter what. That's all I was saying.

 

[lionstop1]

There you have it. Dr. Eviler just broke it down. Personally, I wouldn't want to lose the guy but to me, the Lions cant win and have this kind of money tied up in just three players. They could be getting an extra 3 or 4 guys if they traded him and more money to work with.