2023 season

[DanBengalfan]

offseason goals: upgrade at offensive tackle. depending on L Collins to stay healthy is not a great plan. Jonah Williams ? Carman? we can add another name to the mix and improve.

TE: if Hurst doesn't sign, ok. but we need a long term TE

Defense, keep the defense great. we really coulda pressured Mahomes, but I guess the KC OL isn't that bad.

 

[cincygrad]

The good news is that we will be one of the top 5 teams in the NFL no matter what we do this offseason. Lots of decisions for guys on D and some depth pieces, but overall we're in good shape for another run.

 

[DanBengalfan]

The good news is that we will be one of the top 5 teams in the NFL no matter what we do this offseason. Lots of decisions for guys on D and some depth pieces, but overall we're in good shape for another run.

as long as key players are healthy
-joe b
-at least chase or higgins
-key defensive people

 

[cincygrad]

We lost 5 games this season. 4 of them were basically at the gun. We had one really bad week in Cleveland and that was it. And yet, it still feels like they never fully realized their potential... I think there is a lot to like about our chances again next year.

It's been a fun ride the last two seasons. Which we had a Lombardi trophy to show for it, but it sure beats the old days.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Cap goes from 208 to nearly 225 - Bengals have 44.5M in space....a lot of room to get Burrow and key pieces signed.

I thought Carman acquitted himself well at LT - and he looked, at least to my eyes, better than Williams. I'd give him a shot to win that job in '23, but would also still look for a solid backup/draft pick. Need more OL - can't wait until they are needed for them to get here - takes time to develop.

Collins should be cut - he's essentially on 3 one-year deals, and with his back and now knee - I don't think he can/will move. Adeniji is fine, but agree that looking for a more long-term solution here is ideal. Again, F/A or draft...

Defense will lose Bates (fine) and Pratt (sucks) - I think they re-sign Bell. Will need at least 1 DB, if not 2 to ensure that Cheeto comes back 100%. Will need another OLB to help in coverage, Pratt turned in a very good year - but I think it is clear he is ready to move on from Cincy and be a featured LB. That leaves the need to sign Reader and Wilson (both last year of deals) come to the front - I'd like to see them extended sooner than later to wrap them up and focus on building depth along the DL, LB, and DB positions.

Maybe the same with Higgins, if he's willing to deal....and then Chase. Boyd will either be cut, or play out his last year and be done....same for Mixon. I could see them being casualties to free up more space for Higgins if he's willing to deal....but again, I think he leaves knowing he can be a true #1 and get a bag from some team...

One other factor - coaches....Callaham and Lou both interviewing...Lou would be a devastating loss, IMO....Callahan would be missed as he does a ton of game day prep and offensive stuff, but as long as ZT calls the plays, the impact on the OC leaving is more diminished....Lou, again, would be a big blow - this team, as offensively talented as it is, has thrived because of the defense under Lou....

All in all - a lot of key pieces still locked up and some good cap room to make moves....

 

[cincygrad]

Cap goes from 208 to nearly 225 - Bengals have 44.5M in space....a lot of room to get Burrow and key pieces signed.

I thought Carman acquitted himself well at LT - and he looked, at least to my eyes, better than Williams. I'd give him a shot to win that job in '23, but would also still look for a solid backup/draft pick. Need more OL - can't wait until they are needed for them to get here - takes time to develop.

Collins should be cut - he's essentially on 3 one-year deals, and with his back and now knee - I don't think he can/will move. Adeniji is fine, but agree that looking for a more long-term solution here is ideal. Again, F/A or draft...

Defense will lose Bates (fine) and Pratt (sucks) - I think they re-sign Bell. Will need at least 1 DB, if not 2 to ensure that Cheeto comes back 100%. Will need another OLB to help in coverage, Pratt turned in a very good year - but I think it is clear he is ready to move on from Cincy and be a featured LB. That leaves the need to sign Reader and Wilson (both last year of deals) come to the front - I'd like to see them extended sooner than later to wrap them up and focus on building depth along the DL, LB, and DB positions.

Maybe the same with Higgins, if he's willing to deal....and then Chase. Boyd will either be cut, or play out his last year and be done....same for Mixon. I could see them being casualties to free up more space for Higgins if he's willing to deal....but again, I think he leaves knowing he can be a true #1 and get a bag from some team...

One other factor - coaches....Callaham and Lou both interviewing...Lou would be a devastating loss, IMO....Callahan would be missed as he does a ton of game day prep and offensive stuff, but as long as ZT calls the plays, the impact on the OC leaving is more diminished....Lou, again, would be a big blow - this team, as offensively talented as it is, has thrived because of the defense under Lou....

All in all - a lot of key pieces still locked up and some good cap room to make moves....

Good summary. There are a lot of questions... But there is also just a ton of room for flexibility and creativity. It's really a choose your own adventure that could have multiple paths to continued success. To me, Lou is one of the most important pieces because as you mention, the D has really carried this team at times.

Outside of Philly, I can't think of another team in the league that is in such great position for the next two seasons. I also think it's important to acknowledge that this team proved this season that their success wasn't simply due to a bad schedule or good luck with injuries. We had all sorts of games lost to key members of the team, we have one of the top DVOA schedules, and we were a tough 3 point loss from the Super Bowl.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Good summary. There are a lot of questions... But there is also just a ton of room for flexibility and creativity. It's really a choose your own adventure that could have multiple paths to continued success. To me, Lou is one of the most important pieces because as you mention, the D has really carried this team at times.

Outside of Philly, I can't think of another team in the league that is in such great position for the next two seasons. I also think it's important to acknowledge that this team proved this season that their success wasn't simply due to a bad schedule or good luck with injuries. We had all sorts of games lost to key members of the team, we have one of the top DVOA schedules, and we were a tough 3 point loss from the Super Bowl.

Bengals are in a unique position this year, and next. If they figure it all out - the window could be open a long, long time.

If they don't hit it right, it could be open, but in 2 years, it will come close to being closed.

Big off-season ahead of them, for sure.

 

[cincygrad]

Bengals are in a unique position this year, and next. If they figure it all out - the window could be open a long, long time.

If they don't hit it right, it could be open, but in 2 years, it will come close to being closed.

Big off-season ahead of them, for sure.

Watching games yesterday and it really struck me how much depth is going to play a role in teams advancing through the playoffs. I'm not sure if it is the 17 game season, the way teams train now, or some combination of both, but injuries played a huge role in the postseason this year. You had the league's best QB limping his way through two games, SF playing their 4th QB, the Bengals missing three offensive linemen, the Bills missing multiple key defensive pieces, etc., etc. You still need the top-end QB and some playmakers on offense, but I think you really need to maximize the number of guys you can get in FA rather than investing in one or two shiny pieces. The way they built the D was correct.... Bunch of guys that were undervalued on the market. Getting 5-6 of them was better than signing one really expensive guy. Same with the line - Signing Karras and Cappa was a good start. Add another mid-level FA and draft another linemen and you have built more depth.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Watching games yesterday and it really struck me how much depth is going to play a role in teams advancing through the playoffs. I'm not sure if it is the 17 game season, the way teams train now, or some combination of both, but injuries played a huge role in the postseason this year. You had the league's best QB limping his way through two games, SF playing their 4th QB, the Bengals missing three offensive linemen, the Bills missing multiple key defensive pieces, etc., etc. You still need the top-end QB and some playmakers on offense, but I think you really need to maximize the number of guys you can get in FA rather than investing in one or two shiny pieces. The way they built the D was correct.... Bunch of guys that were undervalued on the market. Getting 5-6 of them was better than signing one really expensive guy. Same with the line - Signing Karras and Cappa was a good start. Add another mid-level FA and draft another linemen and you have built more depth.

I think you nailed it.

Depth through the 17 game season is going to be critical. I think as guys are bigger, stronger, faster the body is finally reaching a limit that we are seeing a net negative return physically. As much as people want to blame playing surfaces and such - the reality is - guys are pushing their bodies past the point where they can withstand the amount of weight, speed, power, torque, and something has to give.

You need some top tier guys, and there are ways to get them in F/A and in the draft - but I think you hit it with the depth spot on....

 

[cincygrad]

I think you nailed it.

Depth through the 17 game season is going to be critical. I think as guys are bigger, stronger, faster the body is finally reaching a limit that we are seeing a net negative return physically. As much as people want to blame playing surfaces and such - the reality is - guys are pushing their bodies past the point where they can withstand the amount of weight, speed, power, torque, and something has to give.

You need some top tier guys, and there are ways to get them in F/A and in the draft - but I think you hit it with the depth spot on....

The issue is that you can't just buy a bunch of depth on the OL.... Not when you need to sign guys at other positions. Not enough cap to go around. At some point, you either have to do a better job of developing guys or you need to tweak your system enough that inferior guys don't get us killed. I mean, the guy that got killed the most the other night was a very solid depth piece. He started playoff games for the Texans. I'm not really sure you're getting subs with better experience.

I think having a better 3 down back is the missing piece for this offense. Mixon's inability to block makes our offense predictable. We either have him in the game because we're going to try to run or we have Perine in the game because we've abandoned the run. If you have a solid run game going, the other team can't move their dominant DT all over the line and get him in favorable pass rush situations.

The offense has made steps but it is still not where it could be. Room for growth.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Cap goes from 208 to nearly 225 - Bengals have 44.5M in space....a lot of room to get Burrow and key pieces signed.

I thought Carman acquitted himself well at LT - and he looked, at least to my eyes, better than Williams. I'd give him a shot to win that job in '23, but would also still look for a solid backup/draft pick. Need more OL - can't wait until they are needed for them to get here - takes time to develop.

Collins should be cut - he's essentially on 3 one-year deals, and with his back and now knee - I don't think he can/will move. Adeniji is fine, but agree that looking for a more long-term solution here is ideal. Again, F/A or draft...

Defense will lose Bates (fine) and Pratt (sucks) - I think they re-sign Bell. Will need at least 1 DB, if not 2 to ensure that Cheeto comes back 100%. Will need another OLB to help in coverage, Pratt turned in a very good year - but I think it is clear he is ready to move on from Cincy and be a featured LB. That leaves the need to sign Reader and Wilson (both last year of deals) come to the front - I'd like to see them extended sooner than later to wrap them up and focus on building depth along the DL, LB, and DB positions.

Maybe the same with Higgins, if he's willing to deal....and then Chase. Boyd will either be cut, or play out his last year and be done....same for Mixon. I could see them being casualties to free up more space for Higgins if he's willing to deal....but again, I think he leaves knowing he can be a true #1 and get a bag from some team...

One other factor - coaches....Callaham and Lou both interviewing...Lou would be a devastating loss, IMO....Callahan would be missed as he does a ton of game day prep and offensive stuff, but as long as ZT calls the plays, the impact on the OC leaving is more diminished....Lou, again, would be a big blow - this team, as offensively talented as it is, has thrived because of the defense under Lou....

All in all - a lot of key pieces still locked up and some good cap room to make moves....

Do you think Taylor has begun the training with defensive guys in house that can take over Lou's system? One thing Belichek always did well, was have next man up in the coaching tree. IT was always the same defense too. The next guy stepped up and took over the playbook and calling in the same shadow of the previous coordinator.

Do you think anyone else has been groomed for this in the organization?

 

[Cincyfan78]

The issue is that you can't just buy a bunch of depth on the OL.... Not when you need to sign guys at other positions. Not enough cap to go around. At some point, you either have to do a better job of developing guys or you need to tweak your system enough that inferior guys don't get us killed. I mean, the guy that got killed the most the other night was a very solid depth piece. He started playoff games for the Texans. I'm not really sure you're getting subs with better experience.

I think having a better 3 down back is the missing piece for this offense. Mixon's inability to block makes our offense predictable. We either have him in the game because we're going to try to run or we have Perine in the game because we've abandoned the run. If you have a solid run game going, the other team can't move their dominant DT all over the line and get him in favorable pass rush situations.

The offense has made steps but it is still not where it could be. Room for growth.

Agreed...why I think every draft should have at least one OL taken somewhere in the top 4 rounds....you, of course, can change course depending on needs for that specific year, but in general, I think the OL is one area that just has such a low turnout rate that you have to continue to take swings to ensure you are getting what you need.

Agreed a bit on Mixon - but I think scheme is more of a predictability factor than if Mixon is in, or not. Both He and Perine can catch the ball, and Perine showed he could run it as well. Bigger issue is so many plays from under center are runs - something like over 70%. If that is the case, if I'm a defense - I'm hedging on that all day long.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Do you think Taylor has begun the training with defensive guys in house that can take over Lou's system? One thing Belichek always did well, was have next man up in the coaching tree. IT was always the same defense too. The next guy stepped up and took over the playbook and calling in the same shadow of the previous coordinator.

Do you think anyone else has been groomed for this in the organization?

Absolutely no clue. One would hope, but Lou has been around a long time.

Biggest thing, IMO, that needs to stay is the adaptability of the defense. Rush 6, drop 8, mix of man and zone coverages - sometimes at the same time...that is the kind of stuff that keeps guys like Mahomes and Allen on their heels - and by the time things get figured out - if the offense is moving - the game is nearly out of reach.

Lou is one of the best adapting coaches I've probably ever seen in the NFL...heck, any level...his ability to change his scheme from week to week, and even make in-game adjustments - has been 2nd to none.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I think it is important we keep Eli Apple for depth if we can get him for a reasonable amount, like $4 million. I love the way Cam Taylor has played, and Chido is amazing, but I would like to see us keep the depth and I was very impressed with Apple this year. He got burnt from time to time, but overall, I thought he did a decent job. Another 1 year year.

I really think you have to lock up Chase and Higgins, because I don't think Burrow should be left with a one horse stable. I know that is wrapping up a lot of money in 3 players, but I think with the type of offense we have but I think those three players with filler players everywhere else can still be a top 10 offense regardless. Stick the rest of the money on better players on defense, like keeping Reader, Wilson, Bell. Maybe even Pratt. We have Hendrickson and Hubbard for at least two more years. I would see how Chido rebounds from his injury and then he is someone else I would lock up if he looks as good as before his injury.

 

[cincygrad]

Do you think Taylor has begun the training with defensive guys in house that can take over Lou's system? One thing Belichek always did well, was have next man up in the coaching tree. IT was always the same defense too. The next guy stepped up and took over the playbook and calling in the same shadow of the previous coordinator.

Do you think anyone else has been groomed for this in the organization?

I think the most likely successor for Lou is James Bettcher. He has coordinator experience and they went out to get him last season (I think for this reason).

 

[Cincyfan78]

I think it is important we keep Eli Apple for depth if we can get him for a reasonable amount, like $4 million. I love the way Cam Taylor has played, and Chido is amazing, but I would like to see us keep the depth and I was very impressed with Apple this year. He got burnt from time to time, but overall, I thought he did a decent job. Another 1 year year.

I really think you have to lock up Chase and Higgins, because I don't think Burrow should be left with a one horse stable. I know that is wrapping up a lot of money in 3 players, but I think with the type of offense we have but I think those three players with filler players everywhere else can still be a top 10 offense regardless. Stick the rest of the money on better players on defense, like keeping Reader, Wilson, Bell. Maybe even Pratt. We have Hendrickson and Hubbard for at least two more years. I would see how Chido rebounds from his injury and then he is someone else I would lock up if he looks as good as before his injury.

I don't have an issue - but you have to bring in another DB and/or draft another DB. Hilton isn't getting any younger, either...need more youth in that spot - plus prevent a slow return from Cheeto, or just as insurance.

Burrow will get extended 1st. After that - I am sure they will talk to Higgins, but if he wants to hit the market - you will see the Bengals pivot to Chase and look to sign a F/A. Another area that I would be looking to draft a WR. Regardless of keeping Higgins, or not, you have to have a guy ready to replace Boyd - who could be a casualty cut if you needed just a few million more to keep Higgins...but, regardless, they need more youth, and could use a slot guy with some serious speed to add more depth/dimension to the offense.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I think it is important we keep Eli Apple for depth if we can get him for a reasonable amount, like $4 million. I love the way Cam Taylor has played, and Chido is amazing, but I would like to see us keep the depth and I was very impressed with Apple this year. He got burnt from time to time, but overall, I thought he did a decent job. Another 1 year year.

I really think you have to lock up Chase and Higgins, because I don't think Burrow should be left with a one horse stable. I know that is wrapping up a lot of money in 3 players, but I think with the type of offense we have but I think those three players with filler players everywhere else can still be a top 10 offense regardless. Stick the rest of the money on better players on defense, like keeping Reader, Wilson, Bell. Maybe even Pratt. We have Hendrickson and Hubbard for at least two more years. I would see how Chido rebounds from his injury and then he is someone else I would lock up if he looks as good as before his injury.

FWIW -
According to
@spotrac
, Tee Higgins market value would be $20M/year average salary based off of the contracs of DK Metcalf, Christian Kirk, Amari Cooper and Terry McLaurin.


IF that is the case - and Higgins is amendable to those terms (again, that is the ballpark, but with cap going up, WR salaries going up, etc....price goes up)...then I think it's doable. Higgins wants north of 25 - no shot.

 

[jbuck]

Pratt is the Shat, man. A guy like that you keep

 

[Cincyfan78]

Pratt is the Shat, man. A guy like that you keep

I think Pratt is gone - he was already vocal about his role on this defense earlier this year, and that was coming off a win.

I don't begrudge him his outburst after the KC game - frustration got the best of him there, and that happens.

He wants to be a 3-down LB - and be THE LB on a team, IMO - and I think someone is going to pay him to be that. I don't think it's going to be Cincinnati.

If I had my guess, Pratt walks.

 

[cincygrad]

I don't have an issue - but you have to bring in another DB and/or draft another DB. Hilton isn't getting any younger, either...need more youth in that spot - plus prevent a slow return from Cheeto, or just as insurance.

Burrow will get extended 1st. After that - I am sure they will talk to Higgins, but if he wants to hit the market - you will see the Bengals pivot to Chase and look to sign a F/A. Another area that I would be looking to draft a WR. Regardless of keeping Higgins, or not, you have to have a guy ready to replace Boyd - who could be a casualty cut if you needed just a few million more to keep Higgins...but, regardless, they need more youth, and could use a slot guy with some serious speed to add more depth/dimension to the offense.

I think you definitely have to draft another defensive back. CTB is good to go for the future, but other guys on the team are not getting younger, have injuries they are coming off of, or are limited in impact. I think you could add a corner or a safety. Even if we sign Von Bell, I don't think he should be in your plans for longer than another 2 seasons. My assumption is that Dax Hill is going to be a good safety in the NFL - His rookie year didn't go as well as we had hoped but I think a lot of that had to do with having very little opportunity. He certainly showed some stuff during the preseason and he appears to be a great athlete. I also wonder if safety isn't his ultimate position if he could be the future replacement for Hilton in the slot. Dax did a lot of blitzing and run support stuff in college.... It was a big part of his game.