Eagles realease Mathis

[L.Freamon]

No one knows what goes on behind close doors. You assume nothing of any value that builds ability or provides insight into ability. I assume the opposite. Its 8 freakin weeks. That is half a football season that clearly these teams deeply value. I assume they are getting value out of it.

So much value they allowed the players in the last CBA to cut the number of sessions, make them non-contact and make them voluntary.

 

[deerpathdave]

You're trying to make the argument that you can judge talent by running around in your shorts.

That is your guess at all that happens in OTAs while we already agreed that no one really knows.

 

[deerpathdave]

Given that you haven't seen sfa of their activities how would you know? Because kelly says so?

Reading the roster won't tell anything more than who's on the roster, how tall they are, how much they weigh and what position they might play.

Reading the roster will tell you that Mathis is not on it and Tobin and Barbre are. Again its a fact that right or wrong those guys have jobs and Mathis does not.

 

[deerpathdave]

So much value they allowed the players in the last CBA to cut the number of sessions, make them non-contact and make them voluntary.

Yes. Because if the coaches had their way (and the really gung ho players), they would be much longer. Just goes to show how much the coaches value the offseason. Its where a good amount of the prep for the season happens. To belittle the offseason value is misreading how coaches think.

 

[L.Freamon]

That is your guess at all that happens in OTAs while we already agreed that no one really knows.

Maybe you don't know what happens in OTA's but the rest of us do. It's not a secret, dude but it explains your misunderstanding of how things work in the NFL which accompany your bizarre posts.

 

[Birds4life81]

Chip Kelly on the Eagles strengths and weaknesses:

"Our biggest strength is we have six weeks before training camp. Our biggest weakness is that we have six weeks before training camp. The offseason program, we don't really put a lot of stock in terms of making real solid evaluations in terms of where they are. It's about them working, getting better, getting smarter, understanding schemes and all those other things. But really, trying to figure out your strengths and weaknesses comes when we actually put the pads on because to make those assessments now, it's really not fair. Our d‑line is taking two steps and pulling off. You really can't see pass‑rush moves because we're not allowed to do that in this phase of the game. So we don't look at it from that standpoint. When we come out of this and sit down as a coaching staff this afternoon [and ask], ‘Hey, what are our strengths and weaknesses?’ It's how did each group improve based upon the rules that the CBA gives us in terms of getting these guys better from April 20th to today."

 

[deerpathdave]

Maybe you don't know what happens in OTA's but the rest of us do. It's not a secret, dude but it explains your misunderstanding of how things work in the NFL which accompany your bizarre posts.

If you read the post I was responding to, you will see that ctc was belittling the off season program as having little to no effect on the ability to improve the player's performance or evaluate their ability. He seems to think they are of little value as they are tagged optional even though 99.8% of the players attend. He characterized it as "running around in your shorts".

My point was that the offseason program was much more than that (although I do not know the details of what they do in the classroom or weight room). Although jobs are rarely technically won and lost in these activities , players performance clearly improves their chances. This off season alone, it looks like Carroll, Thurmond, Barbre, Tobin and Ertz have all positioned themselves nicely for a chance to be starters. Hart, Curry and Huff have also raised their stock according to most reports.

Being an NFL player is overall a pretty nice work schedule. You pretty much get January thru April 20th off and then another 6 weeks in June and July. That is about 4.5 months off a year. Its pretty irresponsible and risky to take the additional two months of OTAs off as well. While it's not required, neither is your employment and a smart player will use every opportunity to get better. Mathis clearly wasn't being smart.

Its comical that you consider my point of view bizarre on this when it seems that 99.8% of NFL players see the value in the program and several former teammates share (and influenced) my opinion of Mathis being cut.

What is really unfathomable to me is that several of you still seem to want to support this guy Mathis, who...
- Was unhappy with his $5.5M pay and was lobbying for a significant increase.
- Was granted his release, and now has discovered that no one seems to be willing to even come close to his old salary much less his expectations.
- Opted to skip two months of work while his other 89 teammates do not.
- In the opinion of Tra Thomas, Jason Peters and the coaching staff had fallen behind Barbre as the team's best choice for left guard.

Seems to be an case of unconditional and irrational man love going on to me. Once one of you guys invest in a Jersey (a strange tradition in and of itself), you go all in for life.

His only good points is that we has been a good guard and teammate in the past and seems to have a great sense of humor (at least on twitter). I really do think the Eagles would prefer to have someone with his skill set and experience on the team, but it never would have worked with him as a backup when he was that full of himself. We can only hope (and it think its a real faint hope), that he may see things differently after testing the waters of Free Agency.

 

[ctc]

If you read the post I was responding to, you will see that ctc was belittling the off season program as having little to no effect on the ability to improve the player's performance or evaluate their ability. He seems to think they are of little value as they are tagged optional even though 99.8% of the players attend. He characterized it as "running around in your shorts".

My point was that the offseason program was much more than that (although I do not know the details of what they do in the classroom or weight room). Although jobs are rarely technically won and lost in these activities , players performance clearly improves their chances. This off season alone, it looks like Carroll, Thurmond, Barbre, Tobin and Ertz have all positioned themselves nicely for a chance to be starters. Hart, Curry and Huff have also raised their stock according to most reports.

Being an NFL player is overall a pretty nice work schedule. You pretty much get January thru April 20th off and then another 6 weeks in June and July. That is about 4.5 months off a year. Its pretty irresponsible and risky to take the additional two months of OTAs off as well. While it's not required, neither is your employment and a smart player will use every opportunity to get better. Mathis clearly wasn't being smart.

Its comical that you consider my point of view bizarre on this when it seems that 99.8% of NFL players see the value in the program and several former teammates share (and influenced) my opinion of Mathis being cut.

What is really unfathomable to me is that several of you still seem to want to support this guy Mathis, who...
- Was unhappy with his $5.5M pay and was lobbying for a significant increase.
- Was granted his release, and now has discovered that no one seems to be willing to even come close to his old salary much less his expectations.
- Opted to skip two months of work while his other 89 teammates do not.
- In the opinion of Tra Thomas, Jason Peters and the coaching staff had fallen behind Barbre as the team's best choice for left guard.

Seems to be an case of unconditional and irrational man love going on to me. Once one of you guys invest in a Jersey (a strange tradition in and of itself), you go all in for life.

His only good points is that we has been a good guard and teammate in the past and seems to have a great sense of humor (at least on twitter). I really do think the Eagles would prefer to have someone with his skill set and experience on the team, but it never would have worked with him as a backup when he was that full of himself. We can only hope (and it think its a real faint hope), that he may see things differently after testing the waters of Free Agency.

You are mis-stating my comments. I am not belittling the off-season program. I am belittling your attempt to portray the off-season program as useful in assessing players ability to play and as justification for cutting mathis. And as the quote from kelly above illustrates you're wrong.

 

[deerpathdave]

Chip Kelly on the Eagles strengths and weaknesses:

"The offseason program, we don't really put a lot of stock in terms of making real solid evaluations in terms of where they are. It's about them working, getting better, getting smarter, understanding schemes and all those other things. But really, trying to figure out your strengths and weaknesses comes when we actually put the pads on because to make those assessments now, it's really not fair. Our d‑line is taking two steps and pulling off. You really can't see pass‑rush moves because we're not allowed to do that in this phase of the game. So we don't look at it from that standpoint. When we come out of this and sit down as a coaching staff this afternoon [and ask], ‘Hey, what are our strengths and weaknesses?’ It's how did each group improve based upon the rules that the CBA gives us in terms of getting these guys better from April 20th to today."

This really is an interesting example of coach speak going on here. You read just the non-underlined pieces and it more or less says that the OTAs are meaningless. You read just the underlined pieces, and it sounds very much like they are doing serious learning, development and most importantly evaluation.

So which is the truth? Both to a degree. There really are some limitations on what you can learn in shorts, but more importantly, there is really no need at this point to make up a formal depth chart. It keeps everyone motivated and on their toes to keep the competition appearing as open as possible. But based on the last part of the quote, there really is also no question that the coaches are evaluating the players based on how they did at OTAs. I have little doubt that each position coach and Kelly has at least a mental depth chart in his mind of where these guys are at based on past performance and OTAs.

 

[Rey]

CSN Philly's Geoff Mosher considers Matt Tobin the favorite to start at right guard for the Eagles.

With Allen Barbre switching to left guard following the release of Evan Mathis, the Eagles have a huge hole at right guard and very little talent to fill it. A 2013 UDFA out of Iowa who struggled in seven starts last season, Tobin's claim to the starting job has more to do with the lack of competition than his individual talent. Philadelphia should be scouring the waiver wire for help during training camp.


Source: CSN Philly
Jun 20 - 10:13 AM

This is my problem with the release of Mathis ... yes he was a malcontent and yes, he may not have won a popularity contest among his team mates ... but he was a pro bowl player under contract. Now we're reduced to "scouring the waiver wire" to complete our OL??? I honestly hope I'm completely wrong in worrying about our Guard spots and when the season opens we do just fine. But if this comes back to haunt us, my confidence in Chip takes a huge hit.

 

[ctc]

This really is an interesting example of coach speak going on here. You read just the non-underlined pieces and it more or less says that the OTAs are meaningless. You read just the underlined pieces, and it sounds very much like they are doing serious learning, development and most importantly evaluation.

So which is the truth? Both to a degree. There really are some limitations on what you can learn in shorts, but more importantly, there is really no need at this point to make up a formal depth chart. It keeps everyone motivated and on their toes to keep the competition appearing as open as possible. But based on the last part of the quote, there really is also no question that the coaches are evaluating the players based on how they did at OTAs. I have little doubt that each position coach and Kelly has at least a mental depth chart in his mind of where these guys are at based on past performance and OTAs.

Here's a clue for you.

But really, trying to figure out your strengths and weaknesses comes when we actually put the pads on because to make those assessments now, it's really not fair.

 

[deerpathdave]

Here's a clue for you.

But really, trying to figure out your strengths and weaknesses comes when we actually put the pads on because to make those assessments now, it's really not fair.

lol. This is why I called this an excellent example of coachspeak. Kelly offers up something for everyone in that little speech...kind of saying everything and nothing all at once. You can read anything you want out of that little statement and you just did.

To really understand what someone thinks, watch what they do, not what they say. Barbre was taking every single rep in OTA at LG and they cut Evan Mathis. If Chip was serious in saying you can't make assessments without pads on, Mathis would still be on the team.

 

[skinzfan]

great thread,

a few months from now

 

[Birds4life81]

Anyone who even bothers arguing with DPD should rather choose a wall to slam their head into.

If you can assess how good a player will be in shorts, then the combine would be a great indicator for successfully hitting on your draft picks. These camps are good for getting repetitions, getting conditioned, getting the timing down, understanding the playbook, working on technique, and learning from your mistakes. Though it is hard to accurately grade how a player will look when it's time to actually put the pads on and let the bullets fly. Mathis was a proven commodity, and a damn good one.

While I do like Barbre and I'm okay with Tobin manning the RG position, we're short on depth, and neither of those guys are All-pros. Mathis is a very talented player who is physically gifted and suits this offensive system extremely well. He's an athletic and powerful guard who excels in our zone blocking scheme - that's been evident for a while. This is not about talent. This is about culture, that's it. The loss of Mathis hurts on a talent and depth side for sure - do I think Chip made the right move? I'll just say this - I understand why he made that decision. I understand the importance of the team being bigger than an individual player. Mathis contract demands and hold out translates to him putting himself before the team. Culture is a very important factor in the game of football for long term success.

Personally, I'll continue to let this all play out before I start criticizing a man with such high football IQ and passion for the game.

 

[L.Freamon]

If you read the post I was responding to, you will see that ctc was belittling the off season program as having little to no effect on the ability to improve the player's performance or evaluate their ability. He seems to think they are of little value as they are tagged optional even though 99.8% of the players attend. He characterized it as "running around in your shorts".

My point was that the offseason program was much more than that (although I do not know the details of what they do in the classroom or weight room). Although jobs are rarely technically won and lost in these activities , players performance clearly improves their chances. This off season alone, it looks like Carroll, Thurmond, Barbre, Tobin and Ertz have all positioned themselves nicely for a chance to be starters. Hart, Curry and Huff have also raised their stock according to most reports.

Being an NFL player is overall a pretty nice work schedule. You pretty much get January thru April 20th off and then another 6 weeks in June and July. That is about 4.5 months off a year. Its pretty irresponsible and risky to take the additional two months of OTAs off as well. While it's not required, neither is your employment and a smart player will use every opportunity to get better. Mathis clearly wasn't being smart.

Its comical that you consider my point of view bizarre on this when it seems that 99.8% of NFL players see the value in the program and several former teammates share (and influenced) my opinion of Mathis being cut.

What is really unfathomable to me is that several of you still seem to want to support this guy Mathis, who...
- Was unhappy with his $5.5M pay and was lobbying for a significant increase.
- Was granted his release, and now has discovered that no one seems to be willing to even come close to his old salary much less his expectations.
- Opted to skip two months of work while his other 89 teammates do not.
- In the opinion of Tra Thomas, Jason Peters and the coaching staff had fallen behind Barbre as the team's best choice for left guard.

Seems to be an case of unconditional and irrational man love going on to me. Once one of you guys invest in a Jersey (a strange tradition in and of itself), you go all in for life.

His only good points is that we has been a good guard and teammate in the past and seems to have a great sense of humor (at least on twitter). I really do think the Eagles would prefer to have someone with his skill set and experience on the team, but it never would have worked with him as a backup when he was that full of himself. We can only hope (and it think its a real faint hope), that he may see things differently after testing the waters of Free Agency.

Whats is unfathomable is your inability--despite voluminous posts--to comprehend WTF the rest of us are talking about. Your lengthy post managed hit 0.0% of what we are talking about. At this point i'm not sure if that is on purpose or a misfire of all of your synapses. I no longer care to figure it out.

 

[deerpathdave]

Whats is unfathomable is your inability--despite voluminous posts--to comprehend WTF the rest of us are talking about. Your lengthy post managed hit 0.0% of what we are talking about. At this point i'm not sure if that is on purpose or a misfire of all of your synapses. I no longer care to figure it out.

Ahh the crowd thing. Others yahoos on a message board agree with you therefore you are right? I search for opinions that are factually based or have pedigree. You and ctc and every other poster here have none of that. All you know is the guy was once a pro bowler. I just happen to think that Chip Kelly, Jason Peters and Tra Thomas have better insight into his 2015 prospects (and those of Barbre and Tobin) than you do. I don't see what is so tough to understand about that?

People without knowledge and insight almost always outnumber those who do. Going with the crowd will usually get you the wrong answer.

 

[DaEagles]

LMAO...this is great.

DPD...keep goin. You are on a roll.

 

[deerpathdave]

LMAO...this is great.

DPD...keep goin. You are on a roll.

It is a credit to this board that I even try. If you went to a board with a wider constituency, the intelligent thoughts would be so overwhelmed by the idiots, it would be a waste of time. But on this board, there is alot of cogent thinking, so it seems worthwhile.

 

[Rey]

I haven't really heard anyone say that Mathis wasn't a good player ... Peters doesn't really care who plays next to him (because he's a badass), Tra Thomas just thinks that "scheme-wise" someone who plays more similar to Peters would be a better fit ... but in order for that to work, the player you replace Mathis with also has to have "talent". Simply replacing Mathis with someone who style-wise may be more similar to Peters doesn't mean we'll see better results. Herremans was critical of Mathis in that he thought he should be at camps despite contractual differences and that he brought his dismissal on himself ... again, not a slight on his talent or ability when he was in the lineup, just a difference in philosophy of how to handle things. As far as Chip goes ... he'd release his own mom if she didn't buy in to his perception of how a mom should act.

 

[L.Freamon]

Ahh the crowd thing. Others yahoos on a message board agree with you therefore you are right? I search for opinions that are factually based or have pedigree. You and ctc and every other poster here have none of that. All you know is the guy was once a pro bowler. I just happen to think that Chip Kelly, Jason Peters and Tra Thomas have better insight into his 2015 prospects (and those of Barbre and Tobin) than you do. I don't see what is so tough to understand about that?

People without knowledge and insight almost always outnumber those who do. Going with the crowd will usually get you the wrong answer.

That's not at all what i said. What i did say was your last 2 posts, including this one aren't addressing what we're talking about.