Raise your hand if you think ND is dogshit even though they went 12-0

[Cafe_Puro]

ND isn't special, but neither are Ohio State and Oklahoma, if you're grading on the same curve.

Truth......

 

[jjc2009]

Yeah, I'm not going to excuse them because they switched one player out. Ian Book is good but he's not that good. Look at Ball State's defense. They are absolutely horrible on defense and ND barely did shit. They could have put Charlie Weis at QB and should've scored more than 24 if they have good WRs as the one ND fan put.

No Dexter Williams until week 5 either. He’s a difference maker at RB.

 

[WNY_FOOTBALL_DUDE]

To keep it simple.. Your problem Is Your problem.. It has nothing to do with my postition. Ive admitted they earned their place.. However, The way the forum is filled with comments and threads on various teams and their worthiness.. ANd you have a problem with people thinking ND is weaker in comparison?? Are you serious?? That is what people do! If people can question and doubt a bama.. or clemson.. ND is no different. Why shouldnt we pick over what they did and compare it to other teams?? WHo are you to say that is wrong?? Honestly.. What makes ND special to where we cant examine their season??????????????

Cafe,

Here's the problem. There were only two concepts I presented on this thread.

1. Judge a team based on what they put on the field. We should NEVER project how teams would face-off against each other. Doing so, would mean you own some sort of crystal ball or are the world's greatest gambler. I have heard too many times people saying Team A would never beat Team B, and end up being wrong. Your viewpoint of ND should NOT be about how they lost in 2012. When you challenge my post, which is purely about the concept of the "gambler fallacy", I can't help to go after you for dodging the thrust of my post. For example, if I write a story about baseball, I expect you to talk about baseball, not hockey.

2. ND's schedule was far from weak. A poster attempted to call ND's schedule "weak" and then compare it to 2014 FSU's SOS as weak too.

I have no problem at all -- hate to sound like a broken record -- of people arguing that ND should be 3rd, because ND's MOV was not as large as Bama or Clemson's MOV. Again, I get it. All three went undefeated. All played quality schedules and beat some really good teams. The difference is that ND played close games with Michigan, Ball State, Vandy, Pitt, and USC. Alabama only struggled with the Citadel for the first 2.5 quarters. Clemson had close games against Texas A&M (with Bryant) and Cuse (with Lawrence on the sidelines).

 

[WNY_FOOTBALL_DUDE]

There's no argument.

Colley Matrix - Notre Dame
A&H - Notre Dame
Massey - Alabama
Sagarin - Notre Dame

According to the 4 BCS computers that provide SOS numbers, Notre Dame is #1 in their SOS numbers (among the undefeated teams), except for Massey.

 

[podsox]

Much like urban, Ohio st fans are much healthier today than they have been all yr. congrats on the big win

 

[ericd7633]

Much like urban, Ohio st fans are much healthier today than they have been all yr. congrats on the big win

I would also rate this winner and like this post if I could.

 

[thunderc]

They couldn’t keep up with OU, I have no doubt about that.

 

[poewelch84]

Yeah, I'm not going to excuse them because they switched one player out. Ian Book is good but he's not that good. Look at Ball State's defense. They are absolutely horrible on defense and ND barely did shit. They could have put Charlie Weis at QB and should've scored more than 24 if they have good WRs as the one ND fan put.

You don't have to excuse them but the facts are the offense picked up tremendously when Book came in.

 

[ericd7633]

They couldn’t keep up with OU, I have no doubt about that.

ND is 20th in offensive efficiency. Texas is 21st in offensive efficiency. I have no doubt Texas couldn't keep up with OU.

 

[steelerssb]

I'm just here to add to the ratings

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Everyone has a few off games here and there. USC caught us in one. Good on them.

Our Resume speaks for itself.

Lng standing rivalry game. SC ND is generally unpredictable. At least neither team schedules an FCS team before the game or ever.....

ND earned their schedule is stronger than most teams in the "conversation"

And I'm an SC fan I hate ND by nature

 

[carson]

w

Colley Matrix - Notre Dame
A&H - Notre Dame
Massey - Alabama
Sagarin - Notre Dame

According to the 4 BCS computers that provide SOS numbers, Notre Dame is #1 in their SOS numbers (among the undefeated teams), except for Massey.

Sagarin has Notre Dame at 44, Clemson 48, and Bama at 55. Not enough of an edge to build a case off of.

 

[BigKen]

Notre Dameehas something that Clemson and Alabama don't have ..................GOD is an Irish Fan.

 

[jjc2009]

Notre Dameehas something that Clemson and Alabama don't have ..................GOD is an Irish Fan.

His mother sure is.

 

[WNY_FOOTBALL_DUDE]

w

Sagarin has Notre Dame at 44, Clemson 48, and Bama at 55. Not enough of an edge to build a case off of.

And Colley and A&H have them with the best SOS among that bunch too.

I do believe ND's schedule is the best of all of them.

Think about it:

Notre Dame played ZERO FCS opponents.

They played and beat 3 ranked according to the AP poll -- Michigan, Syracuse, and Northwestern.

7 out of the 12 opponents had at least 6 wins. VT beating Marshall would put them at 8 wins.

Only 2 of their 12 opponents came from the Group of Five.

Even their so-called bad opponents gives them an SOS booster. Just look at Colley's ratings:

USC - 24th SOS
FSU - 6th SOS
Navy - 44th SOS
VT - 54th SOS

But at the end of the day, SOS is not the reason for Clemson and Alabama being ranked ahead of ND. It has everything to do with Clemson and Alabama being members of a conference and beating up on teams worse than what ND did.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

w

Sagarin has Notre Dame at 44, Clemson 48, and Bama at 55. Not enough of an edge to build a case off of.

And Colley and A&H have them with the best SOS among that bunch too.

I do believe ND's schedule is the best of all of them.

Think about it:

Notre Dame played ZERO FCS opponents.

They played and beat 3 ranked according to the AP poll -- Michigan, Syracuse, and Northwestern.

7 out of the 12 opponents had at least 6 wins. VT beating Marshall would put them at 8 wins.

Only 2 of their 12 opponents came from the Group of Five.

Even their so-called bad opponents gives them an SOS booster. Just look at Colley's ratings:

USC - 24th SOS
FSU - 6th SOS
Navy - 44th SOS
VT - 54th SOS

But at the end of the day, SOS is not the reason for Clemson and Alabama being ranked ahead of ND. It has everything to do with Clemson and Alabama being members of a conference and beating up on teams worse than what ND did.

The problem with using computer formulas. Is no matter how hard you try. With the lack of uniformity in conference and team schedules. Theres a mass disparity in the difference between playing 9 conference games to 8 conference games alone. On an 8 game conference schedule you are removing a guaranteed conference loss. Which effects the numbers.You're never going to find a solid foundation to work with mathematically. Elaborate mathematical formulas are good for skewing numbers or shifting the goal posts. But in the end the purest answer is in the simple math.

ND has played 10 P5 teams and 2 G5 including their yearly home and home rivalries.

Theres other teams in the discussion that have played neutral site games against 2 win teams,2 G5 and an FCS etc.....

Theres no denying ND earned it imo. I may have just threw up in my mouth but I cant deny facts

 

[THUNDER]

Fuck Notre dumb

 

[Ron G]

Fuck Notre dumb

Clever, got any more gems of wisdom? When all else fails , resort to profanity and insults, works every time.

 

[carson]

The problem with using computer formulas. Is no matter how hard you try. With the lack of uniformity in conference and team schedules. Theres a mass disparity in the difference between playing 9 conference games to 8 conference games alone. On an 8 game conference schedule you are removing a guaranteed conference loss. Which effects the numbers.You're never going to find a solid foundation to work with mathematically. Elaborate mathematical formulas are good for skewing numbers or shifting the goal posts. But in the end the purest answer is in the simple math.

ND has played 10 P5 teams and 2 G5 including their yearly home and home rivalries.

Theres other teams in the discussion that have played neutral site games against 2 win teams,2 G5 and an FCS etc.....

Theres no denying ND earned it imo. I may have just threw up in my mouth but I cant deny facts

People like to sling formula-based data around without taking a look at what exactly the formula is first. A lot of UCF fans claim a title because of some obscure poll, but when you look at the formula, said poll completely leaves out SoS.

Regardless, Notre Dame will get the nod as top 4, but only because they're Notre Dame and they're undefeated. Sagarin has their SoS at 44, which isn't overly impressive in contrast to the others in CFP Top 4 contention. And nobody cares at P5 opponents if said opponents don't have winning records. What matters are game against top opponents. Notre Dame has 1 win over a (current) top 10 team and 2 wins over top 30. Ohio State has 2 wins over top 10 and 2 wins over top 30.

 

[carson]

And Colley and A&H have them with the best SOS among that bunch too.

I do believe ND's schedule is the best of all of them.

Think about it:

Notre Dame played ZERO FCS opponents.

They played and beat 3 ranked according to the AP poll -- Michigan, Syracuse, and Northwestern.

7 out of the 12 opponents had at least 6 wins. VT beating Marshall would put them at 8 wins.

Only 2 of their 12 opponents came from the Group of Five.

Even their so-called bad opponents gives them an SOS booster. Just look at Colley's ratings:

USC - 24th SOS
FSU - 6th SOS
Navy - 44th SOS
VT - 54th SOS

But at the end of the day, SOS is not the reason for Clemson and Alabama being ranked ahead of ND. It has everything to do with Clemson and Alabama being members of a conference and beating up on teams worse than what ND did.

Not playing an FCS opponent doesn't matter. Notre Dame has no conference games, thus they have no major conference rivalry game, nor do they have any conference scheduling rules to abide by. That is a huge advantage for them. Unlike Bama having to play LSU and A&M every season or Ohio State having to play Michigan and Penn State every season ... Notre Dame is at the luxury of completely mixing up their schedule every season.

And you really need to stop citing the Colley Matrix for every argument you make here. Despite Colley's claims, its an extremely flawed and subjective ratings system. If you would like to know exactly what I'm talking about, you'll need this link and about 15 minutes of reading.