Raise your hand if you think ND is dogshit even though they went 12-0

[Cafe_Puro]

Count the Ws. No other team has 12 wins over FBS opponents.

They were the only team that could say that in 2012 also......................



Alabama (BCS Championship Game) L, 42-14

Where I made similar arguments about their resume.. But there was no denying they were undefeated.. Just like they are now..

 

[WNY_FOOTBALL_DUDE]

Ive looked at their resume.. If bama or clem struggled with a 5-6 team would you say they were solid?? If either of the other top 5 or 6 teams won 24-16 over BALL STATE.. would you say they were solid? 19-14 over pitt who even UCF blew out?? 22-17 over vandy??? This Is their resume!

Im not saying ND dont belong..They just arent as strong.... Compared to others resumes.. Simple..

There are only two other resumes, you can argue are better at the moment -- Clemson and Alabama. The OP was attempting (but failing to argue) that the team wasn't deserving of its final four spot.

When Notre Dame started the season, they had Brandon Wimbush as their starter and was without their star RB Dexter Williams. The Irish's offense looked mediocre for the first three games. Then they made a QB switch and Williams came back from suspension. The Irish then averaged 37 points per game and had about an 18 point MOV.

I have no idea what you mean by "struggle". Against Ball State, they were up 24-6 going into the 4th quarter. The Irish only trailed twice all season long at halftime, and that against two rivals -- Pitt 7-6 and USC 10-7.

You posed the question of: "If Alabama and Clemson 'struggled' for 5-6 teams, would you call them solid?" For starters, I do not like to use MOV factors when judging teams. These would only be reserved for breaking tiebreakers of tiebreaker of tiebreakers. All what I care about the most is the quality of your schedule and whether or not, you won the game. To me, MOV is just rewarding bad sportsmanship and punishes teams for playing rivals and and not being at full strength.

To answer your question: If Alabama and Clemson had the same schedule, same wins, same mild struggles, I would grade them the same as ND. Absolutely.

Besides, not understanding the team's history this season, your response had two significant problems: (1) No response to my resume only commentary. Assuming you're the greatest gambler of all-time is a gigantic sports fallacy. (2) I can't speak for other Irish fans, but I really don't think it matter if the Irish get ranked 3rd or 4th. We still are in the playoff and will be playing on a neutral field.

 

[cwerph]

They have that 2014 Florida State feel to me. Went undefeated because of a pretty weak schedule, and didn't look overly impressive doing so, and will get exposed in the playoffs.

Of course, they'll have the opportunity to prove me wrong.

or 2012 when they were boatraced by Bama in the BCS championship game.

 

[Chewbaccer]

or 2012 when they were boatraced by Bama in the BCS championship game.

That brings back painful what could have been UGA memories, so I decided to not go with that one.

 

[ericd7633]

Well they will have the chance to show if they do belong.. When im wrong i am wrong..

You're already wrong because they do belong, whether or not they win a game in the CFP is moot.

 

[Cafe_Puro]

There are only two other resumes, you can argue are better at the moment -- Clemson and Alabama. The OP was attempting (but failing to argue) that the team wasn't deserving of its final four spot.

When Notre Dame started the season, they had Brandon Wimbush as their starter and was without their star RB Dexter Williams. The Irish's offense looked mediocre for the first three games. Then they made a QB switch and Williams came back from suspension. The Irish then averaged 37 points per game and had about an 18 point MOV.

I have no idea what you mean by "struggle". Against Ball State, they were up 24-6 going into the 4th quarter. The Irish only trailed twice all season long at halftime, and that against two rivals -- Pitt 7-6 and USC 10-7.

You posed the question of: "If Alabama and Clemson 'struggled' for 5-6 teams, would you call them solid?" For starters, I do not like to use MOV factors when judging teams. These would only be reserved for breaking tiebreakers of tiebreaker of tiebreakers. All what I care about the most is the quality of your schedule and whether or not, you won the game. To me, MOV is just rewarding bad sportsmanship and punishes teams for playing rivals and and not being at full strength.

To answer your question: If Alabama and Clemson had the same schedule, same wins, same mild struggles, I would grade them the same as ND. Absolutely.

Besides, not understanding the team's history this season, your response had two significant problems: (1) No response to my resume only commentary. Assuming you're the greatest gambler of all-time is a gigantic sports fallacy. (2) I can't speak for other Irish fans, but I really don't think it matter if the Irish get ranked 3rd or 4th. We still are in the playoff and will be playing on a neutral field.

TO be fair ill back up if need be and address comments you made.. I am not sure How you do not know what struggled means?? I dont care if Ball state scored all their points in the last 30 seconds of the game.. The outcome is the same.. AND So as i asked if a bama or clems had results like those would they be seen the same.

Clems beat syr by 4.. many people questioned their toughness Even tho that was when they had the qb drama.. The rest of their games have been impressive.. Winning convencingly over teams they are suppose to beat being the number 2 team.. And to be frank.. damn near all of ND's games are rivalries-_- so allowing 349 passing.. Season High doesnt matter as long as its a rivalry?

Bama and clem destroyed theirs...

 

[Ron G]

By the way, ND schedules years in advance in order to have strong schedule each year. In a year or two they have Wisconsin on the schedule. Doubt that was done with an easy win in mind.
ND is the #1 or #2 most important game on its opponents schedule each year. They have home and homes with Michigan, Stanford, USC, Navy, home games that are a 1000 miles or more away.
The OP may not like ND, but to say a 12-0 team is "dog-shit" is just ignorant of the facts. ND has beaten 6 teams that will be going to bowl games and two that will be playing for conference championships next week (admittingly with little chance of winning, but the games still have to be played). And all this with Florida State and USC having off years.
To say any undefeated team that played 10 P5 teams and no FCS teams is "dog shit", is just showing emotion rather than logic.
There will be a season in which Georgia, Alabama, Ohio St. , Michigan, Oklahoma, Clemson, and some others gets seriously bitten by the injury bug (as USC did this year) and will still play some teams tough but lose. If Alabama were to lose Tua to an injury, they will still be a favorite to win the NC, but the point spread will be a lot less. And lets say they were to lose Tua and their right tackle to injury, and lets say a top defenseman to an inadvertent targeting call, they will no longer be invincible. No need to feel sorry for USC (except for the unfortunate players involved) but no team should feel immune from the nasty injury bug.

 

[Cafe_Puro]

You're already wrong because they do belong, whether or not they win a game in the CFP is moot.

I havent ever said they didnt belong.. My position is an opinion of how they would match up compared to others.. Saying an OU or OSU would beat them showed my position of where they are as a team..I am not impressed..However they are number 3 and they are earned the rite..

 

[cwerph]

That brings back painful what could have been UGA memories, so I decided to not go with that one.

Brother I've been there.

 

[cwalke3408]

Its not that they don't count, it's just simple common sense. UCF's best players were 3-star athletes. Auburn is loaded with 5's. Auburn also has an athletic department and amenities UCF can only dream of. UCF came at Auburn with a lot to prove and they won the game. But winning that one game does not make them better than Auburn. Not by a long shot.

Then explain FSU? They're loaded with 5 stars

 

[PhilSimms11]

Michigan (10-2)
Ball St (4-8)
Vanderbilt (6-6)
Wake Forest (6-6)
Stanford (7-4)
VA Tech (5-6)
Pitt (7-5)
Navy (3-9)
Northwestern (8-4)
Florida St (5-7)
Syracuse (9-3)
USC (5-7)

 

[ericd7633]

I havent ever said they didnt belong.. My position is an opinion of how they would match up compared to others.. Saying an OU or OSU would beat them showed my position of where they are as a team..I am not impressed..However they are number 3 and they are earned the rite..

I'm not sure why you'd be impressed with OSU and OU and not ND when ND has been better against ranked teams and bowl eligible P5 teams? You're simply ignoring a full seasons worth of data.

 

[carson]

Then explain FSU? They're loaded with 5 stars

I dunno... maybe has something to do with the changeover in an entire coaching staff.

 

[WNY_FOOTBALL_DUDE]

TO be fair ill back up if need be and address comments you made.. I am not sure How you do not know what struggled means?? I dont care if Ball state scored all their points in the last 30 seconds of the game.. The outcome is the same.. AND So as i asked if a bama or clems had results like those would they be seen the same.

Clems beat syr by 4.. many people questioned their toughness Even tho that was when they had the qb drama.. The rest of their games have been impressive.. Winning convencingly over teams they are suppose to beat being the number 2 team.. And to be frank.. damn near all of ND's games are rivalries-_- so allowing 349 passing.. Season High doesnt matter as long as its a rivalry?

Bama and clem destroyed theirs...

Look Cafe, I have no problem with ND being #3, and people arguing that Alabama and Clemson are the top 2 teams in the country. So again, I don't know what you're trying to prove: ND is overrated? ND is bad? We know it's not that. My problem is the ND bashing and people attempting to insult ND's best season this century or at least as good as 2012.

It's rather silly argue for people to get hung up over ND being #1, #2, or #3. It doesn't matter.

And btw, ND doesn't have to prove they belong. The team plays extremely well on both sides of the ball. They beat Cuse and Michigan. Their SOS is arguably the best of the undefeated schools. When this team is focused, they have shown dominance. What ND needs to prove they can win a major bowl game. That's been their issue. Their "belong-ness" is never in doubt.

 

[Cafe_Puro]

(1) No response to my resume only commentary. Assuming you're the greatest gambler of all-time is a gigantic sports fallac.

Why would I address a comment you did not make to me? You quoted me maybe once.. Were I addressed what you commented on.. That is how I deal with these back and forths.. You quote me.. I reply.. You quote someone else.. I do not assume you were speaking to me..

 

[WNY_FOOTBALL_DUDE]

I'm not sure why you'd be impressed with OSU and OU and not ND when ND has been better against ranked teams and bowl eligible P5 teams? You're simply ignoring a full seasons worth of data.

Ball State this, Ball State that. I am sick of that garbage.

If people think ND's "squeaking by" is a problem, then they should really have a problem with Oklahoma and Ohio State.

 

[carson]

And btw, ND doesn't have to prove they belong. The team plays extremely well on both sides of the ball. They beat Cuse and Michigan. Their SOS is arguably the best of the undefeated schools. When this team is focused, they have shown dominance. What ND needs to prove they can win a major bowl game. That's been their issue. Their "belong-ness" is never in doubt.

There's no argument.

1 Alabama A = 103.11 12 0 71.41( 55) 1 0 | 5 0 | 102.76 1 | 103.62 1 | 105.28 1 SEC-WEST
2 Clemson A = 99.64 12 0 72.16( 48) 0 0 | 3 0 | 99.42 2 | 99.69 2 | 100.66 2 ACC-ATLANTIC
3 Georgia A = 92.87 11 1 74.23( 28) 0 0 | 5 1 | 92.42 3 | 92.79 5 | 95.98 4 SEC-EAST
4 Ohio State A = 92.03 11 1 73.17( 43) 2 0 | 2 0 | 91.63 5 | 93.51 3 | 94.55 5 BIG TEN-EAST
5 Michigan A = 91.64 10 2 74.22( 29) 1 2 | 1 2 | 91.78 4 | 91.07 7 | 90.23 7 BIG TEN-EAST
6 Oklahoma A = 90.75 11 1 73.86( 37) 0 0 | 2 1 | 90.39 6 | 92.81 4 | 92.97 6 BIG 12
7 Notre Dame A = 88.36 12 0 73.02( 44) 1 0 | 2 0 | 87.46 8 | 91.19 6 | 96.94 3 I-A IND.
8 Mississippi State A = 87.62 8 4 74.06( 32) 0 1 | 2 4 | 87.75 7 | 85.33 11 | 86.22 13 SEC-WEST
9 Penn State A = 87.15 9 3 73.78( 40) 0 2 | 1 2 | 87.25 9 | 87.21 9 | 85.93 14 BIG TEN-EAST
10 Washington A = 86.70 9 3 73.84( 38) 0 0 | 3 1 | 86.32 12 | 88.40 8 | 89.00 8 PAC-12(NORTH)

 

[Cafe_Puro]

Look Cafe, I have no problem with ND being #3, and people arguing that Alabama and Clemson are the top 2 teams in the country. So again, I don't know what you're trying to prove: ND is overrated? ND is bad? We know it's not that. My problem is the ND bashing and people attempting to insult ND's best season this century or at least as good as 2012.

It's rather silly argue for people to get hung up over ND being #1, #2, or #3. It doesn't matter.

And btw, ND doesn't have to prove they belong. The team plays extremely well on both sides of the ball. They beat Cuse and Michigan. Their SOS is arguably the best of the undefeated schools. When this team is focused, they have shown dominance. What ND needs to prove they can win a major bowl game. That's been their issue. Their "belong-ness" is never in doubt.

To keep it simple.. Your problem Is Your problem.. It has nothing to do with my postition. Ive admitted they earned their place.. However, The way the forum is filled with comments and threads on various teams and their worthiness.. ANd you have a problem with people thinking ND is weaker in comparison?? Are you serious?? That is what people do! If people can question and doubt a bama.. or clemson.. ND is no different. Why shouldnt we pick over what they did and compare it to other teams?? WHo are you to say that is wrong?? Honestly.. What makes ND special to where we cant examine their season??????????????

 

[Cafe_Puro]

Ball State this, Ball State that. I am sick of that garbage.

If people think ND's "squeaking by" is a problem, then they should really have a problem with Oklahoma and Ohio State.

SO you missed those threads??????? People did have problems with them too! I am one of them!

 

[ericd7633]

To keep it simple.. Your problem Is Your problem.. It has nothing to do with my postition. Ive admitted they earned their place.. However, The way the forum is filled with comments and threads on various teams and their worthiness.. ANd you have a problem with people thinking ND is weaker in comparison?? Are you serious?? That is what people do! If people can question and doubt a bama.. or clemson.. ND is no different. Why shouldnt we pick over what they did and compare it to other teams?? WHo are you to say that is wrong?? Honestly.. What makes ND special to where we cant examine their season??????????????

ND isn't special, but neither are Ohio State and Oklahoma, if you're grading on the same curve.