Zimmerman Part Two

[MHSL82]

So by your tone, I can only assume you think Trayvon was an innocent boy who was wrongfully killed. I'm guessing you would use the word'murder' and not 'killed.'

Am I right so far?

My tone? It was a joke. Zimmerman said that he was being beat down to the concrete and that when he finally wrestled back he shot the guy. So I was saying that if he is being beat in the boxing match, he cannot shoot the guy. I didn't say anything about Martin or about him really - just that he was putting himself back into a situation to get beat.

Apparently, you take things literally, so no I'm not saying that boxing matches are the same as being beaten into concrete. Yes, there are others watching this time that could stop it if he's in danger. Just a joke.

 

[TobyTyler]

You said the kid who got shot was a thug because he had a gun. There must be more to it, or your Everyman would also be a thug, no?

No. In FLA, regular people can carry handguns, but they cannot keep concealed shotguns in vans.

 

[TobyTyler]

you can not shoot and kill someone because they are texting during the movie theater; the man could of just as easily gotten up and moved. Also, the guy who got shot I believe was also white and was texting his daughter. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you?

he shouldn't have got shot but when you confront someone and they are scared you just might get shot. Wouldn't it be easier to just stop texting or turn down your music.

 

[TobyTyler]

So by your tone, I can only assume you think Trayvon was an innocent boy who was wrongfully killed. I'm guessing you would use the word'murder' and not 'killed.'

Am I right so far?[/QUOTE]

Yes.

 

[Arete Tzu]

he shouldn't have got shot but when you confront someone and they are scared you just might get shot. Wouldn't it be easier to just stop texting or turn down your music.

wouldn't it be easy to stop feeling so damn self important and entitled that you allow these insignificant action to anger you?

 

[TobyTyler]

Can't they? Isn't that freedom of speech and expression? They may be assholes, but being an asshole isn't license for someone to shoot you. And being irritated isn't a defense for homicide. Now, perhaps these people were violating a rule, or even a law if there's a sound ordinance. But it's not job of armed civilians to enforce the law. Ask for the person to change his behavior. If he doesn't do it, contact the proper authorities. Here's an easy rule I like to follow, it's kept me out of serious trouble to date: don't shoot people. Even if they're annoying and disrespectful.

Obviously this is somewhat different if there was a shotgun in the present case.

No. You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater; but then you knew that..........or at least I hope you did. As for being irritated not being an excuse for shooting someone, I agree, but pulling a shotgun is .

 

[TobyTyler]

Dude really, this adds nothing to the conversation and just makes you come across as a dick.

Not to me. I know exactly what he's saying.

 

[MHSL82]

you can not shoot and kill someone because they are texting during the movie theater; the man could of just as easily gotten up and moved. Also, the guy who got shot I believe was also white and was texting his daughter. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you?

I would like to take exception with your statement that you cannot shoot and kill someone because they are texting. The fact that we are discussing it, means it actually happened. Thus you actually can do such a thing but there are repercussions for doing so. The man that got killed learned (for a few moments before his death) that there can sometimes be unexpected repercussions for being a selfish prick.

Main Entry: 1can
Pronunciation: \kən, ˈkan also ˈken; dialect ˈkin\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): past could \kəd, ˈku̇d\; present singular & plural can
Etymology: Middle English (1st & 3d singular present indicative), from Old English; akin to Old High German kan (1st & 3d singular present indicative) know, am able, Old English cnāwan to know — more at know
Date: before 12th century
transitive verb
1 obsolete : know, understand 2 archaic : to be able to do, make, or accomplish
intransitive verb
archaic : to have knowledge or skill
verbal auxiliary
1 a : know how to <she can read> b : be physically or mentally able to <he can lift 200 pounds> c —used to indicate possibility <do you think he can still be alive> <those things can happen> ; sometimes used interchangeably with may d : be permitted by conscience or feeling to <can hardly blame her> e : be made possible or probable by circumstances to <he can hardly have meant that> f : be inherently able or designed to <everything that money can buy> g : be logically or axiologically able to <2 + 2 can also be written 3 + 1> h : be enabled by law, agreement, or custom to 2 : have permission to —used interchangeably with may <you can go now if you like>

usage Can and may are most frequently interchangeable in senses denoting possibility; because the possibility of one's doing something may depend on another's acquiescence, they have also become interchangeable in the sense denoting permission. The use of can to ask or grant permission has been common since the 19th century and is well established, although some commentators feel may is more appropriate in formal contexts. May is relatively rare in negative constructions (mayn't is not common); cannot and can't are usual in such contexts.

Be able to vs. permitted to... which one do you think he meant? You can't be serious and you cannot not understand this, could you? I guess under the definition, you can.

Maybe we need to switch to the word, may?

 

[TobyTyler]

I'm not surprised our youth feels so entitled, look at the generation that raised them. Your generation likes feeling like judge, jury, and executioner. It's "do what I say or else!" but really, who gave you that authority?

I see countless people doing things I don't agree with or like, I don't bother confronting them. I'm not so gassed up on my own ego, to believe I'm on some self righteous mission. Young people act immature, that's a part of life that will NEVER go away. People with wisdom understand that. Maybe you've watched one to many Clint Eastwood movies, but confronting people and forcefully trying to change them is thuggish. Killing people is a thug behavior. The gunslingers of the west didn't listen to hip hop, but they where thugs by every definition. This guy is no hero, He is no every day man, he is a delusional hot headed idiot.

Nor do I because I don't feel like getting shot. I don't believe the shooter is a hero either, but this stuff will continue to happen until people learn to respect other people and accept some boundaries to their behavior.

 

[TobyTyler]

wouldn't it be easy to stop feeling so damn self important and entitled that you allow these insignificant action to anger you?

Yep, ida just moved on, but them I'm kind of a coward.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

No. In FLA, regular people can carry handguns, but they cannot keep concealed shotguns in vans.

I'm fairly certain that's incorrect. Florida Statute 790.25:

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.—Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

Not only is there no evidence at this time that the shotgun was concealed, but even if it was, that doesn't violate Florida law.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

he shouldn't have got shot but when you confront someone and they are scared you just might get shot. Wouldn't it be easier to just stop texting or turn down your music.

From all reports, both the victim here and the one in the theater were confronted by the shooters.

 

[MHSL82]

Nor do I because I don't feel like getting shot. I don't believe the shooter is a hero either, but this stuff will continue to happen until people learn to respect other people and accept some boundaries to their behavior.

If the rule of thumb is to avoid getting shot, then the same analysis should be made if he told them to be quiet and got shot. If he had just tolerated the noise, which is less bad than getting shot, he wouldn't have gotten shot (hypothetically speaking). I know you talked about being courteous and the fact that the loudness wasn't, but if you're talking about actions that brought upon danger, not leaving someone alone, even when annoyed or irritated by someone's rude behavior, increases the risk - a risk that one should have anticipated. If he thought these guys were thugs, why mess with them? If that's what he thought, why would he be surprised? However, if he had been shot, I have no doubt people would be going after them despite him going against common knowledge. You don't take risks you don't need to, especially just to make someone be less loud.

 

[SomeGuy]

Echoes of Zimmerman expected in Fla. trial

What is the world coming to when these gangster thugs can't mess with regular people any more? It's just not fair!

JMO, I can't see him getting off of this. Why isn't this in the politics area?

Also, I hate having to not only listen to people's vile music but also feel it. If I were an electrical engineer, I would love to make a small EMP that has a radius of 10' and use it....often.

 

[Arete Tzu]

Nor do I because I don't feel like getting shot. I don't believe the shooter is a hero either, but this stuff will continue to happen until people learn to respect other people and accept some boundaries to their behavior.

Your problem in all of these cases, is you take the side of the shooter because the person getting shot didn't understand that he could get shot by not doing what an entitled idiot says he should do. You never hold the shooter accountable for failing to avoid situations where someone can get shot.

You feed off all this white vs black sensationalist bullshit. You love building up stories of thugs and "everyday men" who take them off this earth. You live in a John Wayne fantasy land. These shootings aren't reasonable in any fashion, but you love your heroes. Even though you say he isn't one that hasn't stopped you from building up your stories.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

No. You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater; but then you knew that..........or at least I hope you did. As for being irritated not being an excuse for shooting someone, I agree, but pulling a shotgun is .

According to RoboticDreams I can.

But you "can't" do something like that because it is against the law. We have people who are responsible for enforcing the laws: trained and sworn law enforcement officers. I am not interested in a society in which armed vigilantes go about enforcing local ordinances or the rules at commercial establishments with lethal force. If that's your idea of an ideal - or even acceptable - civilization, good luck with it.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Yep, ida just moved on, but them I'm kind of a coward.

Anyone who isn't law enforcement and is packing should act like a coward.

 

[TobyTyler]

I'm fairly certain that's incorrect. Florida Statute 790.25:

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.—Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

Not only is there no evidence at this time that the shotgun was concealed, but even if it was, that doesn't violate Florida law.

Maybe not, but pulling it out and pointing at someone will get you shot.

 

[RoboticDreams]

My tone? It was a joke. Zimmerman said that he was being beat down to the concrete and that when he finally wrestled back he shot the guy. So I was saying that if he is being beat in the boxing match, he cannot shoot the guy. I didn't say anything about Martin or about him really - just that he was putting himself back into a situation to get beat.

Apparently, you take things literally, so no I'm not saying that boxing matches are the same as being beaten into concrete. Yes, there are others watching this time that could stop it if he's in danger. Just a joke.

My mistake, dude.

 

[TobyTyler]

From all reports, both the victim here and the one in the theater were confronted by the shooters.

No. They were asked to tone down their antics, the thug and the dude in the theater then chose to escalate it.