You can't have it both ways RG3.

[Warpath]

Agree & they made mistakes. Time to move on. Why do all these outsiders have to take it a step further & suggest firing Shanahan or that RG3 will not make it past 2 games, etc, etc. Just wait & see how it plays out.

Pretty much how I feel. Shanahan made mistakes. Right now he's being cautious and has said that it was a learning experience. Both of them need to grow from it and move on. Hopefully RG3 will do his part this year by sliding, running out of bounds, throwing the ball away and just avoiding as much contact as he can. Play smarter in that regard so Shanahan doesn't have to make those kinds of decisions.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

If you know football you can apply that knowledge to any team. Dismissing my opinion because I am a patriots fan is stupid.

Shanahan took the guy they (rightfully so) mortgaged the hell out of their future for, on a visibly shredded knee, and allowed continual play calls that begged for him to keep hurting it more. It was embarrassing to the sport how RG3 was handled that game.

You may know football but a fan of a given team knows more about the background & setup of the team & doesn't rely on opinions of the national media (which are often wrong) or the observations from a single game to come to conclusions. I stated that the coaches made some mistakes on that game - it was certainly not a reason to fire Shanahan - that is silly. Also - the initial injury (in the Ravens game) was more RG3's fault. In both cases - what is done is done - why keep dwelling on it? Move on.

 

[JDM]

My only argument with you is that he should have taken him out of the game outright. He wasn't effective throwing the ball because he couldn't push off. And when there was pressure he's going to have instictive reactions to scramble. He couldn't. It was painful to watch, and he should have been taken out of the game. There's no playcalling they could have implemented that would have been effective when he couldn't move and couldn't plant to throw.

Pulling him outright would have been better than it was handled. I'm not sure you can deliberately handle it much worse if you're a cowboys fan trying to fuck over the franchise.

I believe in letting the guy play, though. I've been that guy on several occasions (clearly not at the NFL level, but I took the tape off of a badly sprained knee a week after it happened because it was annoying me that it didn't have enough of a range of motion, and played my entire senior year of high school with my shoulder laced to my side.) I think if they hadn't put so much reliance on his legs the first three quarters, he would have had the strength to plant and step into his throws. (That one deep ball late that was intercepted; he didn't get anything on it). I think that if they had put a little more reliance on Morris to make his own plays on the ground earlier, RG3 has enough left in the tank to do what needs done. That was a ballsy performance on all levels from him, but my respect for him and for Shanahan took very distinctly opposite trajectories as a result of that game.

 

[JDM]

You may know football but a fan of a given team knows more about the background & setup of the team & doesn't rely on opinions of the national media (which are often wrong) or the observations from a single game to come to conclusions. I stated that the coaches made some mistakes on that game - it was certainly not a reason to fire Shanahan - that is silly. Also - the initial injury (in the Ravens game) was more RG3's fault. In both cases - what is done is done - why keep dwelling on it? Move on.

I watched as many snaps as I could get my hands on, which was most of them, and do not watch ESPN. The background and setup of that team is that they gave up a lot of future assets to get a great QB. How that game was handled was unforgivable and I will never look at Shanahan the same way again.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I watched as many snaps as I could get my hands on, which was most of them, and do not watch ESPN. The background and setup of that team is that they gave up a lot of future assets to get a great QB. How that game was handled was unforgivable and I will never look at Shanahan the same way again.

Good - don't look at him the same way. He is the coach for my favorite team & don't believe that he did anything malicious - he just made some mistakes. Therefore - I will keep pulling for him as long as he coaches the Redskins & doesn't do anything that appears to be intended to hurt someone on the team.

 

[RobBase]

Love the guy, but he is throwing Shanny under the bus right now saying he wants to get in there. He is tired of 7 on 7, and he can do more. Yet all summer he was throwing Shanny under the bus for not "protecting" him more by pulling him out of the Seattle game. Shanny really didn't want to play him in the Eagles game last year. RG3 kinda tallked his way into that game. He's my guy, but he really needs to stop using the media to get his agenda out, which usually hangs Shanny out to dry. My 2 cents. We don't need the drama. Leave that to Riley Cooper and the Eagles. Leave that to Garrett's hot seat and the Cowboys.

Skins are a proud franchise and the league is always better when the Skins are playing tough, but RG3 really comes off like a me player, and not a team player. You guys drafted a capable QB in Cousins, and RG3 should have/could have taken himself out of the game for the good of the team. You probably would have won.

 

[JDM]

Skins are a proud franchise and the league is always better when the Skins are playing tough, but RG3 really comes off like a me player, and not a team player. You guys drafted a capable QB in Cousins, and RG3 should have/could have taken himself out of the game for the good of the team. You probably would have won.

No competitor will voluntarily remove themselves from the field.

 

[JDM]

Good - don't look at him the same way. He is the coach for my favorite team & don't believe that he did anything malicious - he just made some mistakes. Therefore - I will keep pulling for him as long as he coaches the Redskins & doesn't do anything that appears to be intended to hurt someone on the team.

Of course you will. He's still your coach, and if he fails, your team does. I think more of your fellow fans would agree with me on this than you think, though.

 

[Warpath]

Skins are a proud franchise and the league is always better when the Skins are playing tough, but RG3 really comes off like a me player, and not a team player. You guys drafted a capable QB in Cousins, and RG3 should have/could have taken himself out of the game for the good of the team. You probably would have won.

IMO, you want that drive in a leader of your team. But it's up to the coaches to reign it in. And that's what Shanahan learned first hand last year. It's his call to take a player out of the game if that player is insisting on playing. That's on the coach.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Pulling him outright would have been better than it was handled. I'm not sure you can deliberately handle it much worse if you're a cowboys fan trying to fuck over the franchise.

I believe in letting the guy play, though. I've been that guy on several occasions (clearly not at the NFL level, but I took the tape off of a badly sprained knee a week after it happened because it was annoying me that it didn't have enough of a range of motion, and played my entire senior year of high school with my shoulder laced to my side.) I think if they hadn't put so much reliance on his legs the first three quarters, he would have had the strength to plant and step into his throws. (That one deep ball late that was intercepted; he didn't get anything on it). I think that if they had put a little more reliance on Morris to make his own plays on the ground earlier, RG3 has enough left in the tank to do what needs done. That was a ballsy performance on all levels from him, but my respect for him and for Shanahan took very distinctly opposite trajectories as a result of that game.

I beg to differ. Not sure if you saw RG3's post game press conference after that game, but it made quite a few people kind of question RG3. He stated that if Shanahan pulled him he would have just tried to sneak back into the game. I can appreciate the macho attitude but that was kind of ridiculous. Like I said before - all sides made mistakes in this case - it happens. They just need to prove that they learned from their mistakes.

 

[Warpath]

Of course you will. He's still your coach, and if he fails, your team does. I think more of your fellow fans would agree with me on this than you think, though.

Shanahan has done too much to clean house and get this organization pointed in the right direction to get fired over a bad judgement call.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Of course you will. He's still your coach, and if he fails, your team does. I think more of your fellow fans would agree with me on this than you think, though.

They would agree with you in what sense? That Shanahan should have been fired? Don't think so. That he tried or didn't care that RG3 could get hurt worse? Again - don't think so. There are a handful of fans who believe this, but they are in the minority.

Most Redskins fans are optimistic now (realizing that anything is possible - good or bad) & are not going overboard dwelling on the past. It is the non-fans - like yourself who believe that they know everything about every team - that keep bringing up this crap. Again - I believe in moving on - apparently you don't. Agree to disagree.

 

[JDM]

I beg to differ. Not sure if you saw RG3's post game press conference after that game, but it made quite a few people kind of question RG3. He stated that if Shanahan pulled him he would have just tried to sneak back into the game. I can appreciate the macho attitude but that was kind of ridiculous. Like I said before - all sides made mistakes in this case - it happens. They just need to prove that they learned from their mistakes.

It didn't actually happen. He was just making the point that he wanted to play, which is what you want in the leader of your team. If you go to the other extreme you get Derrick Rose, who I'm not sure will ever be seriously respected by teammates again, regardless of what is said in the press.

 

[JDM]

They would agree with you in what sense? That Shanahan should have been fired? Don't think so. That he tried or didn't care that RG3 could get hurt worse? Again - don't think so. There are a handful of fans who believe this, but they are in the minority.

Most Redskins fans are optimistic now (realizing that anything is possible - good or bad) & are not going overboard dwelling on the past. It is the non-fans - like yourself who believe that they know everything about every team - that keep bringing up this crap. Again - I believe in moving on - apparently you don't. Agree to disagree.

This is a thread about that. I'm not bringing it up out of the blue.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

It didn't actually happen. He was just making the point that he wanted to play, which is what you want in the leader of your team. If you go to the other extreme you get Derrick Rose, who I'm not sure will ever be seriously respected by teammates again, regardless of what is said in the press.

The point I am making is that both sides are to blame. You cannot make a blanket statement that you always want a player to stay in the game. If he has a major injury it does not benefit the team nor himself to stay in the game. Being macho is great, but it has it's limits. The hope is that you find someone who has an attitude somewhere between what was stated by RG3 & the attitude of Rose. You don't have to simply choose between the two extremes - get real.

Oh well - again agree to disagree - we get it - you now hate Shanahan & believe that Redskins should have fired him. Good for you.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

This is a thread about that. I'm not bringing it up out of the blue.

Don't really care. You can find threads here, in the old days on ESPN, etc that will have some Redskins fans stating certain things. They do not represent most Skins fans (& in some cases they are not actually Redskins fans). Any of the posters here that were on ESPN know this all too well.

Do you mean to imply that if I took a poll of Redskins fans that the majority would want to replace Shanahan? I would bet you any amt of money that would not be the case.

 

[j_y19]

JDM - You are way off base if you think most Skins fans want Shanahan fired for what happened to RG3. WAY OFF BASE. The vast majority of us realize that there were multiple errors that led to that, some by Shanahan, some by RG3 and some by the doctors. So Shanahan made a mistake. If he does it again (which it appears he isn't going to do), then you question him. But he has done so much more to turn this franchise around, you don't throw him out over a misjudgment (especially one that could have been a result of misinformation from either the player or the doctor, or both).

 

[JDM]

The point I am making is that both sides are to blame. You cannot make a blanket statement that you always want a player to stay in the game. If he has a major injury it does not benefit the team nor himself to stay in the game. Being macho is great, but it has it's limits. The hope is that you find someone who has an attitude somewhere between what was stated by RG3 & the attitude of Rose. You don't have to simply choose between the two extremes - get real.

Oh well - again agree to disagree - we get it - you now hate Shanahan & believe that Redskins should have fired him. Good for you.

Yes, there is blame to go around. I have been having reasonable conversation with multiple people. No need to get defensive.

I would take more extreme than RG3 and be excited for it, though. I want the guy we literally have to tie down on the sidelines to keep him out of the game. That guy has fucking passion.

Don't really care. You can find threads here, in the old days on ESPN, etc that will have some Redskins fans stating certain things. They do not represent most Skins fans (& in some cases they are not actually Redskins fans). Any of the posters here that were on ESPN know this all too well.

Do you mean to imply that if I took a poll of Redskins fans that the majority would want to replace Shanahan? I would bet you any amt of money that would not be the case.

No, just that I am discussing what's in the thread. I'm not going into a thread about your defense and saying this. I am having an on topic discussion about my perception of it.

JDM - You are way off base if you think most Skins fans want Shanahan fired for what happened to RG3. WAY OFF BASE. The vast majority of us realize that there were multiple errors that led to that, some by Shanahan, some by RG3 and some by the doctors. So Shanahan made a mistake. If he does it again (which it appears he isn't going to do), then you question him. But he has done so much more to turn this franchise around, you don't throw him out over a misjudgment (especially one that could have been a result of misinformation from either the player or the doctor, or both).

Some guys get the benefit of the doubt here. I understand you guys giving it to Shanahan because of how bad your ownership has been with some things, but if I'm not scraping the bottom of the barrel, which you're not (RG3 alone would attract a pretty damn good coach if you agree to stay out of his way.), I'm not sure I do the same. You question this time, though. Next time he's done.

Would you fire a coach you thought was "okay" who did this? Just trying to get a sense of "this is really no deal even if a bad coach does it" or "Shanahan made a legit mistake, but we trust it won't happen again".

 

[j_y19]

JDM, if I truly believed that Shanahan knew the extent of RG3's injury and sent him out there anyway, then I would have to seriously consider his tenure. But I think that he had the Doctor telling him that RG3 couldn't make the injury worse (which the doctor told him) and he had RG3 in his ear telling him he was fine and he could play.

The mistake I fault Shanahan for was for leaving RG3 in the game against seattle. At that point, it was clear his injury was affecting his performance. He couldn't push off so he got no zip behind his throws. I would have pulled him at half while we still had a lead. Everyone could tell at that point that RG3 was cooked.

 

[JDM]

I can respect that. My claim is that it was very visible on the field. You watch him move once or twice and you change your play calls immediately to protect him. I could see from almost immediately after he reinjured it that it was bad. We all could. There is no way Shanahan could have not seen that. This is why I consider it now and give such a short leash.